Quite possible on all counts.
However, I have found that man is quite adept at the self fulfilling prophecy (in any era), and we are heading down Armaggedon's road, currently, and picking up speed.
What do you believe about End Times?
- Thread starter quakeyjase
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However, I have found that man is quite adept at the self fulfilling prophecy (in any era), and we are heading down Armaggedon's road, currently, and picking up speed.
BlaznFattyz
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Perhaps the english language fails in describing what they have which is not "freewill" in the sense of our freewill, but something similar yet different on a higher level, especially since they the are in the presence or realm of God; therefore, we associate what they have with the same language with what we have, and that is inaccurate.
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
I don't know, Blazyn. I could imagine that could be the case, but it still is not aligned with the Jewish idea, from what I understand. Or, what I should say, is that it is a belief that seems rather limited to a subset of Jewish thought. As far as I know, the belief that angels fell to become demons is only found in Kabbalistic texts (the Jewish branch of mysticism) and are not mainstream interpretations of the Bible. Judaism allows diversity in beliefs, since the focus seems to be more on how to live a good life than hammering out the exact nature of the supernatural.
Here's some past threads that discussed it from the Jewish perspective:
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/lucifer-satan-devil-8262.html
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/judaism-101-a-7121.html
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/jewish-belifes-5074.html
I must say that I find that it seems most of Christianity has strayed in how it thinks about Satan from the Judaic way, which would have been Christ's way of using the term. But that's a topic for another thread...
More to the point on the End Times, I think the slide into this sort of hell on earth is due to none other than human choice. The Spirit is with us in this world, and I think we really have no excuse for continuing the violence, greed, and poor decision-making that are causing the world to be rife with suffering. I do not think there is "an" anti-Christ but rather anyone who consistently works against Christ's teachings (of service, meekness, love, and so forth) is working as an anti-Christ.
I do think Revelations describes the end (or, more aptly, a possible end, as we could elect to change it- the events are not inevitable unless we continue to make bad choices). But I think efforts to pinpoint "who" the anti-Christ is, and when Christ will return, and to tick off events one by one... are not only futile, but go against what Christ said to do in the Bible: to focus on daily living, to give up our worries about tomorrow, and to accept that He will come "like a thief in the night."
I think a focus on Revelations rather than on the Gospels can be a problem and a cause for people to be worked into a state of fear, anxiety, or depression about the state of the world, as well as being all too willing to hurry along the suffering so that Christ might come back within their lifetimes. I've been to several churches over the course of years (attending regularly) that did this, and the amount of anxiety and grief in their congregation about the world, but the total immobility of them to work in service to Christ- to improve the world through being a vessel of God- (because they believed it to be hopeless)... it was stunning. I think anything, even Bible-based study and belief, is anti-Christ if it removes our focus from Christ's teachings and reduces our ability and motivation to implement His teachings in our own lives.
I think Revelation is a prophecy of the worst case scenario- that if we don't "get with the program," here's what will happen. Prophecy isn't fore-telling the future. It's bringing a message from God. So I think what we need to do is try to understand how the message speaks to us, and what it means for our own actions.
Here's some past threads that discussed it from the Jewish perspective:
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/lucifer-satan-devil-8262.html
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/judaism-101-a-7121.html
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/jewish-belifes-5074.html
I must say that I find that it seems most of Christianity has strayed in how it thinks about Satan from the Judaic way, which would have been Christ's way of using the term. But that's a topic for another thread...
More to the point on the End Times, I think the slide into this sort of hell on earth is due to none other than human choice. The Spirit is with us in this world, and I think we really have no excuse for continuing the violence, greed, and poor decision-making that are causing the world to be rife with suffering. I do not think there is "an" anti-Christ but rather anyone who consistently works against Christ's teachings (of service, meekness, love, and so forth) is working as an anti-Christ.
I do think Revelations describes the end (or, more aptly, a possible end, as we could elect to change it- the events are not inevitable unless we continue to make bad choices). But I think efforts to pinpoint "who" the anti-Christ is, and when Christ will return, and to tick off events one by one... are not only futile, but go against what Christ said to do in the Bible: to focus on daily living, to give up our worries about tomorrow, and to accept that He will come "like a thief in the night."
I think a focus on Revelations rather than on the Gospels can be a problem and a cause for people to be worked into a state of fear, anxiety, or depression about the state of the world, as well as being all too willing to hurry along the suffering so that Christ might come back within their lifetimes. I've been to several churches over the course of years (attending regularly) that did this, and the amount of anxiety and grief in their congregation about the world, but the total immobility of them to work in service to Christ- to improve the world through being a vessel of God- (because they believed it to be hopeless)... it was stunning. I think anything, even Bible-based study and belief, is anti-Christ if it removes our focus from Christ's teachings and reduces our ability and motivation to implement His teachings in our own lives.
I think Revelation is a prophecy of the worst case scenario- that if we don't "get with the program," here's what will happen. Prophecy isn't fore-telling the future. It's bringing a message from God. So I think what we need to do is try to understand how the message speaks to us, and what it means for our own actions.
S
sonoman
Guest
John the Revelator, didn't know Greek from Hebrew when he wrote Revelation as he said "Armageddon" is "Hebrew" when in fact it is the Greek translation of the Canaanite word for their Divine Assembly, "Har Mô ed", from which Meggido, the town on the hill was named after. I pointed this fact out before and no one responded to it but I think it's quite important whenever Christians get carried away by Revelation, believing it to hold keys to future end times for earth and humanity. If John got the Hebrew word wrong, what else did he get wrong? This is what those letting themselves become enthralled with Revelation's nightmarish "story" should be asking themselves.
That said, I personally do see a spiritual battle happening now in these "End Times" but I think Christians will be quite surprised in the end about what Jesus was teaching. If Prof. Margaret Barker is right, and my own research and spirit tells me she is, then "Armageddon" might just be a spiritual battle to reestablish the ancient Father/Son relationship that ancient Hebrews followed in their worship of Yahweh as Son or Great Angel to El Elyon. El presided over the Divine Assembly where Yahweh was El's Son in charge of the Israelite tribes as each Son of El had a designated turf to rule. This can be seen in Deuteronomy 32:8,9 in the Hebrew translation where Yahweh's portion is the children of Israel.
Here are the Psalms that also contain carryovers from ancient Canaanite worship by Hebrews showing Yahweh as Son to El.
"El has taken his place in the assembly of El, in the midst of the elohim He holds judgment."
-Psalm 82:1:
"Ascribe to Yahweh, O sons of El, ascribe to Yahweh glory and strength."
-Psalm 29:1:
"For who in the skies can be compared to Yahweh, who among the sons of El is like Yahweh,"
-Psalm 89:6:
What if "Armageddon" symbolizes a spiritual war between the followers of Yahweh as God Most High, and the followers of El Elyon, as God Most High? What if when one is a Christian and learns how ancient Canaanites conceived of and related to El vs. the way Hebrews related to Yahweh, what if one does this as I did following the research of Semitic Languages Professor John Gray in his book "Near Eastern Mythologies" and find just as he did, Jesus' "Abba"? God Most High with a personality and character to match Jesus' teachings unlike Yahweh, the Israelite tribal war god and "Lord of Hosts"?
El Elyon-God Most High
"War is against my wish; Plant the seeds of peace in the heart of the earth."
Who do you serve? El or Yahweh?
That said, I personally do see a spiritual battle happening now in these "End Times" but I think Christians will be quite surprised in the end about what Jesus was teaching. If Prof. Margaret Barker is right, and my own research and spirit tells me she is, then "Armageddon" might just be a spiritual battle to reestablish the ancient Father/Son relationship that ancient Hebrews followed in their worship of Yahweh as Son or Great Angel to El Elyon. El presided over the Divine Assembly where Yahweh was El's Son in charge of the Israelite tribes as each Son of El had a designated turf to rule. This can be seen in Deuteronomy 32:8,9 in the Hebrew translation where Yahweh's portion is the children of Israel.
Here are the Psalms that also contain carryovers from ancient Canaanite worship by Hebrews showing Yahweh as Son to El.
"El has taken his place in the assembly of El, in the midst of the elohim He holds judgment."
-Psalm 82:1:
"Ascribe to Yahweh, O sons of El, ascribe to Yahweh glory and strength."
-Psalm 29:1:
"For who in the skies can be compared to Yahweh, who among the sons of El is like Yahweh,"
-Psalm 89:6:
What if "Armageddon" symbolizes a spiritual war between the followers of Yahweh as God Most High, and the followers of El Elyon, as God Most High? What if when one is a Christian and learns how ancient Canaanites conceived of and related to El vs. the way Hebrews related to Yahweh, what if one does this as I did following the research of Semitic Languages Professor John Gray in his book "Near Eastern Mythologies" and find just as he did, Jesus' "Abba"? God Most High with a personality and character to match Jesus' teachings unlike Yahweh, the Israelite tribal war god and "Lord of Hosts"?
El Elyon-God Most High
"War is against my wish; Plant the seeds of peace in the heart of the earth."
Who do you serve? El or Yahweh?
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
It is the belief among people that believe in the end-time prophecy that "Armageddon" being the greek form while Har Megido is the Hebrew form will be the name of the battle (one-sided as it will be...) and located on Mount of Megiddo. In history it many times a place of battle. For further understanding another example would be the battle of Hastings.. Hastings being the place of the battle. So there is no mistranslation or misundestanding here... its just as it should be.
Sorry to rain on your parade..
FS
Sorry to rain on your parade..
FS
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
I serve the one true God in three persons the Father the Son, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.. The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob... The great I AM and it doesnt matter what I call Him because He knows me and I know His voice.
Its that simple
S
sonoman
Guest
It is the belief among people that believe in the end-time prophecy that "Armageddon" being the greek form while Har Megido is the Hebrew form will be the name of the battle (one-sided as it will be...) and located on Mount of Megiddo. In history it many times a place of battle. For further understanding another example would be the battle of Hastings.. Hastings being the place of the battle. So there is no mistranslation or misundestanding here... its just as it should be.
Sorry to rain on your parade..
FS
If you think Armageddon's about a military war and not a spiritual one I can't go there myself. It's not about military victory and besides, the great victor in history at Megiddo was Egyptian pharaoh Tutmoses III right about the time of Moses of the Bible which is of interest to those of us who believe Israeli archeologists over the words of ancient men.
I majored in anthropology and I cannot take the words of men as literal history when science proves those words in error. Blind faith in men's words is out for me, Faithful. I need knowledge of God. Those ancient Church men forgot my Christian roots which was the way God came to me so I have no choice but to follow the living God and not the traditions of men when they run counter to the information the living God is directing me to. God is God of the living, not the dead. The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, means to me that God reaches down the generations father, to son, to grandson, with spiritual Truth but that Truth is differently expressed for each generation depending on what they in their time need emphasized that unbeknownst to them, continues the spiritual ball forward to the time of Jesus.
M
mee
Guest
What do you believe about End Times?
we are in that time , and 1914 was the start of the end .
and now we are well along into bible prohecy and chronology .
and its all happening in this time of the end
we are in that time , and 1914 was the start of the end .
and now we are well along into bible prohecy and chronology .
and its all happening in this time of the end
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Sonoman did I ever once speak of who won the battles?.. no. I was simply correcting you on your mistake. Did I once say that it wasnt a spiritual battle? no I did not. I dont know what its going to be... All I know is that I want to be on the right side of it..
You think your anthropology studies has something over one God or the Bible? I can show you proof otherwise with a little google search of my own. Modern Science is a religion of this day and most of it you have to have the same form faith as those that believe in God. So thats not a good argument either. Your problem seems to be with Christianity that you refuse to accept the Bible as inspired by God and you cannot offer any substantial proof to me otherwise. When you have I am confident I I will be able to correct you once I search for the truth of the matter on my own... . If I could not believe that the bible was100% true and that it can stand on its own and that Jesus is not the Son of God who died on the cross and rose again... then everything I believe would be false so prove me wrong if you can. I dare you
Good Day
FS
You think your anthropology studies has something over one God or the Bible? I can show you proof otherwise with a little google search of my own. Modern Science is a religion of this day and most of it you have to have the same form faith as those that believe in God. So thats not a good argument either. Your problem seems to be with Christianity that you refuse to accept the Bible as inspired by God and you cannot offer any substantial proof to me otherwise. When you have I am confident I I will be able to correct you once I search for the truth of the matter on my own... . If I could not believe that the bible was100% true and that it can stand on its own and that Jesus is not the Son of God who died on the cross and rose again... then everything I believe would be false so prove me wrong if you can. I dare you
Good Day
FS
S
sonoman
Guest
Sonoman did I ever once speak of who won the battles?.. no. I was simply correcting you on your mistake. Did I once say that it wasnt a spiritual battle? no I did not. I dont know what its going to be... All I know is that I want to be on the right side of it..
You think your anthropology studies has something over one God or the Bible? I can show you proof otherwise with a little google search of my own. Modern Science is a religion of this day and most of it you have to have the same form faith as those that believe in God. So thats not a good argument either. Your problem seems to be with Christianity that you refuse to accept the Bible as inspired by God and you cannot offer any substantial proof to me otherwise. When you have I am confident I I will be able to correct you once I search for the truth of the matter on my own... . If I could not believe that the bible was100% true and that it can stand on its own and that Jesus is not the Son of God who died on the cross and rose again... then everything I believe would be false so prove me wrong if you can. I dare you
Good Day
FS
Faithfulservant, I believe the Bible is divinely inspired, especially the New Testament. But I also know, really deeply know, that God is alive and can and does use ANYTHING in this world as vehicle for instruction to human being. ANYTHING. In my religious conversion experience I saw how God uses everything as vehicles for communicating Its messages only our eyes and ears are stopped up from seeing and hearing it all around us all the time. When you idolize one of God's books, create a real idol of it, one you bow down to and worship as if it were God itself, one you dare not question or the idol will what? What happens, Faithfulservant, if you question the Bible's inerrancy? You're faith crumbles? What is that about? How can your faith be so weak that it hinges on words in a book written by men?
I could not possibly figure out what Jesus was saying without researching the Near Eastern religions as context for Christian beliefs. Without reading the Gospel of Thomas you cannot understand the Gospel of John's admonition to Thomas in it. Without knowing about how Canaanites worshiped El Elyon before El Elyon became Yahweh, you will never find Jesus' Abba. To worship a book is wrong, any book. God does not want us Christians to be ignorant and if you don't know where the Old and New Testaments stand in relationship to the history of their times when they were written you cannot grasp what God is trying to teach you through Jesus. God is a Spirit, and those who worship God worship God in spirit.
It is also the name of the valley that the town sits in the crux of. (yes I know I used a preposition to end the sentence...)
And that valley is alluded to in Psalm as "the valley of the shadow of death" Psalm 24:3.
S
sonoman
Guest
Why do you say that? "Shadow of death" appears in Job too as a reference to sheol. Who except the author of Revelations has ever made a big deal about "Meggido". Jews never did. It's not part of their messianic prophesies. Only Christians following the non-Christian book of Revelation make anything of Meggido.
I don't know, maybe we are being warned over and over again (humans are a bit numb in the brain sometimes). I personally am not concerned about what the Jews think. That is their opinion. They stopped at the end of the OT. Christians didn't. Jews don't believe in Christian thought anyway, so it doesn't really matter. But to Christians, and end times, it does.
S
sonoman
Guest
Quahom, I'm not saying chuck Revelation because I do believe God puts these books in our path for a reason, but I am saying we shouldn't look at such texts as some sort of divination tool to see our future in terms of Revelation's symbolisms. It's a dangerous occupation to derive historic meaning from such products of someone's intense religious imagination. We tend to forget that these ancients did not have movies and tv to entertain themselves at night so they had their religious stories. Maybe John the Revelator was the Stephen King of his day and filled the seeming need in people to scare the bejesus out of us once in a while..
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
I'll just put a quick word in. I do not think the Bible was ever meant to be taken as inerrant or beyond evolving interpretation based on the revelation from the Spirit in each reader's life. Jesus came from the Judaic tradition and the concept of sacred text as inerrant, literal, and unchanging in interpretation is not a Jewish way of going about reading the Bible.
I also think it is a dangerous place to be in when one's faith rests in words, as opposed in a personal relationship with Christ. I know, however, from past conversations that FS is not resting her faith in the Bible, but rather her faith in the Bible stems from her faith in Christ. (Correct me if I'm wrong, FS, but that's what I've seen from you in the past.)
The differences are that her faith in Christ combined with her church home drives her to believe in inerrancy, while my faith in Christ combined with my church home (and especially my personal mystical experience) drive me to believe in ongoing personal revelation. My profession as an anthropologist also does lead me logically to the same conclusion, but I am not a mystic because I'm an anthropologist (not by a long shot! LOL). I'm a mystic because I was born that way, and God has always been there as a Spirit that guides me through my journey. This journey has clearly shown me that approaching the Bible as literal inerrant scripture, when it is a book that was assembled by committee, translated not-so-perfectly, and is rife with idioms and concepts I only understand in historical context (or through guidance by the Spirit, which has always led me to conclusions that also fit with history and reason)... approaching the Bible this way just doesn't help me.
It is not that I do not have faith in the Bible. Of course I don't. I have faith in God alone! But rather, the Bible is a meeting point of God and I (one of several)-- it is a place for me to connect with humanity's past encounters and interpretations of those encounters with God, a place of wisdom, of inspiration, of love and beauty. It's also a place that shows the horrible things people can become when they lose sight of who they really should be, and act without regard for God or one another.
I believe the Bible was divinely inspired. But I have faith in God, not the Bible. If I had been born in a culture without the Bible, I am absolutely certain I would know God and Christ nonetheless. They came to me before I understood anything of Christian doctrine or read the Bible. I am absolutely certain that God's will and Christ's love will spread out over the entire earth, no matter what happens to the Bible or how we think about those words. I have total faith in God, and I know that the Spirit that is at work in all times and all places can never be misused as the Bible can... because it has its own will and is not a static "thing."
So what does that mean, in my opinion, for the differences between FS's beliefs and my own?
In the end-- not much. We are saved by Christ and live in the Spirit. Differences in how we approach the Bible are inconsequential to salvation and to living a good life within God's will so long as we are both praying to the Spirit for guidance and developing a personal relationship with God. It is OK for us to be in disagreement... and I feel that we are still at one in the Body of Christ. My guess is no one on earth ever really figures it all out. We are so limited in our capacity to do so... no matter how much I study and no matter how many mystical experiences I have, I am always learning something new. I figure that's OK. No one has to figure it all out. It's the effort that God is looking for. It's the effort that shows we are saved and seeking after God.
Naturally, FS may disagree with me about this as well. Many Christian churches put forth that you must believe in certain tenets, as if entrance to heaven were granted by a multiple-choice test. But even then, I would maintain that our differences would be erased in time by the love of Christ. Then again, perhaps she'd agree with me. All I know is that the personal relationship with God, however it comes to us, is the important thing.
I also think it is a dangerous place to be in when one's faith rests in words, as opposed in a personal relationship with Christ. I know, however, from past conversations that FS is not resting her faith in the Bible, but rather her faith in the Bible stems from her faith in Christ. (Correct me if I'm wrong, FS, but that's what I've seen from you in the past.)
The differences are that her faith in Christ combined with her church home drives her to believe in inerrancy, while my faith in Christ combined with my church home (and especially my personal mystical experience) drive me to believe in ongoing personal revelation. My profession as an anthropologist also does lead me logically to the same conclusion, but I am not a mystic because I'm an anthropologist (not by a long shot! LOL). I'm a mystic because I was born that way, and God has always been there as a Spirit that guides me through my journey. This journey has clearly shown me that approaching the Bible as literal inerrant scripture, when it is a book that was assembled by committee, translated not-so-perfectly, and is rife with idioms and concepts I only understand in historical context (or through guidance by the Spirit, which has always led me to conclusions that also fit with history and reason)... approaching the Bible this way just doesn't help me.
It is not that I do not have faith in the Bible. Of course I don't. I have faith in God alone! But rather, the Bible is a meeting point of God and I (one of several)-- it is a place for me to connect with humanity's past encounters and interpretations of those encounters with God, a place of wisdom, of inspiration, of love and beauty. It's also a place that shows the horrible things people can become when they lose sight of who they really should be, and act without regard for God or one another.
I believe the Bible was divinely inspired. But I have faith in God, not the Bible. If I had been born in a culture without the Bible, I am absolutely certain I would know God and Christ nonetheless. They came to me before I understood anything of Christian doctrine or read the Bible. I am absolutely certain that God's will and Christ's love will spread out over the entire earth, no matter what happens to the Bible or how we think about those words. I have total faith in God, and I know that the Spirit that is at work in all times and all places can never be misused as the Bible can... because it has its own will and is not a static "thing."
So what does that mean, in my opinion, for the differences between FS's beliefs and my own?
In the end-- not much. We are saved by Christ and live in the Spirit. Differences in how we approach the Bible are inconsequential to salvation and to living a good life within God's will so long as we are both praying to the Spirit for guidance and developing a personal relationship with God. It is OK for us to be in disagreement... and I feel that we are still at one in the Body of Christ. My guess is no one on earth ever really figures it all out. We are so limited in our capacity to do so... no matter how much I study and no matter how many mystical experiences I have, I am always learning something new. I figure that's OK. No one has to figure it all out. It's the effort that God is looking for. It's the effort that shows we are saved and seeking after God.
Naturally, FS may disagree with me about this as well. Many Christian churches put forth that you must believe in certain tenets, as if entrance to heaven were granted by a multiple-choice test. But even then, I would maintain that our differences would be erased in time by the love of Christ. Then again, perhaps she'd agree with me. All I know is that the personal relationship with God, however it comes to us, is the important thing.
M
mee
Guest
What do you believe about End Times?
its all happening just as the book of revelation foretold, and it is being revealed to Jesus servants.
ARE the symbolisms of Revelation intended to terrify?
Far from it!
The fulfillment of the prophecy may bring terror to the wicked, but God’s faithful servants will agree with the inspired introduction and the angel’s comment at the end:
"Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy." "Happy is anyone observing the words of the prophecy of this scroll." (Rev. 1:3; 22:7)
"Happy is the people whose God is Jehovah!"—PSALM 144:15.
"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth. Happy are the peaceable, since they will be called ‘sons of God’."—Matt. 5:5, 9.
its all about HAPPINESS
The conclusion (REV 22:6-21). The assurance is given: "These words are faithful and true." Happy, indeed, are all those who observe the words of the prophecy!
if your HAPPY and you know it CLAP YOUR HANDS clap clap
its all happening just as the book of revelation foretold, and it is being revealed to Jesus servants.
ARE the symbolisms of Revelation intended to terrify?
Far from it!
The fulfillment of the prophecy may bring terror to the wicked, but God’s faithful servants will agree with the inspired introduction and the angel’s comment at the end:
"Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy." "Happy is anyone observing the words of the prophecy of this scroll." (Rev. 1:3; 22:7)
"Happy is the people whose God is Jehovah!"—PSALM 144:15.
"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth. Happy are the peaceable, since they will be called ‘sons of God’."—Matt. 5:5, 9.
its all about HAPPINESS
The conclusion (REV 22:6-21). The assurance is given: "These words are faithful and true." Happy, indeed, are all those who observe the words of the prophecy!
if your HAPPY and you know it CLAP YOUR HANDS
clap clap Dondi
Well-Known Member
I’m going to take a stab at this. But let me preface that I don’t emphasize my theology on end-time events. I will just try to point to trends in the political, economic, and religion arenas that seem to be congealing toward what I see as possibly fulfilling apocryphal scripture. There are just too many factors that seem to indicate this. I mean, I could talk volumes about this stuff, but to be brief:
1) The emergence of Israel as a nation – Up to about a hundred and fifty years ago, the idea of a reformed nation of Israel would seem ludicrous. But then there began an influx of Jews who migrated to the Holy Land in the late 19th century, including a wave of Ailyahs that surged the population of Palestine up through WWII. By the war’s end, Palestine was approximately 33% Jewish. Not long after the State of Israel was declared on May 14, 1948, the Arab-Israeli War, the first of three wars that by all accounts Israel ought to have lost. The other two being the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War. And since then all the countries surrounding Israel are bent on destroying her, just as the Bible predicted.
So here is a country formed from the remnants of an ancient culture who revived an all but dead language from people who were dispersed all over the world for nearly 1,900 years, just as the Bible predicts. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I do not believe any other ancient culture has been able to revive like that.
2) Russia and her allies – Ezekiel describes a country to the extreme north of Israel called Gog and Magog which would form an alliance with surrounding nations such as Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, and Gomer that will oppose Israel in a great battle. Well, if you point you finger on a world map on Israel and follow the longitudal line toward the extreme North, you will find yourself in Russia. It is no secret that Russia and Iran have formed a trade agreement and, along with China, formed nuclear power alliance.
3) Kings of the East – Revelation 9 describes an army of 200 million coming from the east over the Euphrates River. Keep in mind that this was approximately the entire world’s population in the 2nd century. Today, in that area of the world this chapter describes, there are only two countries that are able to generate such a massive army: China and India. In 1990, the Ataturk Dam in Turkey was able to stop the flow of the Euphrates River for 30 days while the reservoir filled up. You do the math.
4) Revived Roman Empire – Both Daniel and Revelation describe a confederation of nations that will wield economic and political power in Europe. The purpose of the current European Union is to eventual combine to make a United State of Europe and introduces the ‘Euro’ as the standard form of currency in 2002. A poster, shown here, depicts the Tower of Babel with the motto “Many Tongues, One Voice”. Hmm….
5) U.S.? – Nothing specific. However, they may be playing out as an extension of the Revived Roman Empire via Britain, since that is the mother nation that birthed it. Some think that Revelation 18 might be describing the U.S.
6) Nuclear War – Several scripture seem to hint at it. Ezekiel 39 read like a nuclear clean-up aftermath. II Peter 3:10 tells us that the elements will melt with fervent heat and the earth and all her works will be consumed. Would seem like folly is it weren’t for the fact that we have the capability to do just that with all the nuclear arsonals that are in the world. (And has every nuke been accounted for in the former U.S.S.R’s arsenal?)
I dunno. It just seems things are eddying and aligning not too randomly toward what scripture has laid out. I’m not one to go running to the hills and stock up on survival gear, but biblical prophesy is a drawing interest for me in light of what’s going on in current events. Seems more than a coincidence to me. And I’ve barely scratched the surface.
1) The emergence of Israel as a nation – Up to about a hundred and fifty years ago, the idea of a reformed nation of Israel would seem ludicrous. But then there began an influx of Jews who migrated to the Holy Land in the late 19th century, including a wave of Ailyahs that surged the population of Palestine up through WWII. By the war’s end, Palestine was approximately 33% Jewish. Not long after the State of Israel was declared on May 14, 1948, the Arab-Israeli War, the first of three wars that by all accounts Israel ought to have lost. The other two being the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War. And since then all the countries surrounding Israel are bent on destroying her, just as the Bible predicted.
So here is a country formed from the remnants of an ancient culture who revived an all but dead language from people who were dispersed all over the world for nearly 1,900 years, just as the Bible predicts. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I do not believe any other ancient culture has been able to revive like that.
2) Russia and her allies – Ezekiel describes a country to the extreme north of Israel called Gog and Magog which would form an alliance with surrounding nations such as Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, and Gomer that will oppose Israel in a great battle. Well, if you point you finger on a world map on Israel and follow the longitudal line toward the extreme North, you will find yourself in Russia. It is no secret that Russia and Iran have formed a trade agreement and, along with China, formed nuclear power alliance.
3) Kings of the East – Revelation 9 describes an army of 200 million coming from the east over the Euphrates River. Keep in mind that this was approximately the entire world’s population in the 2nd century. Today, in that area of the world this chapter describes, there are only two countries that are able to generate such a massive army: China and India. In 1990, the Ataturk Dam in Turkey was able to stop the flow of the Euphrates River for 30 days while the reservoir filled up. You do the math.
4) Revived Roman Empire – Both Daniel and Revelation describe a confederation of nations that will wield economic and political power in Europe. The purpose of the current European Union is to eventual combine to make a United State of Europe and introduces the ‘Euro’ as the standard form of currency in 2002. A poster, shown here, depicts the Tower of Babel with the motto “Many Tongues, One Voice”. Hmm….
5) U.S.? – Nothing specific. However, they may be playing out as an extension of the Revived Roman Empire via Britain, since that is the mother nation that birthed it. Some think that Revelation 18 might be describing the U.S.
6) Nuclear War – Several scripture seem to hint at it. Ezekiel 39 read like a nuclear clean-up aftermath. II Peter 3:10 tells us that the elements will melt with fervent heat and the earth and all her works will be consumed. Would seem like folly is it weren’t for the fact that we have the capability to do just that with all the nuclear arsonals that are in the world. (And has every nuke been accounted for in the former U.S.S.R’s arsenal?)
I dunno. It just seems things are eddying and aligning not too randomly toward what scripture has laid out. I’m not one to go running to the hills and stock up on survival gear, but biblical prophesy is a drawing interest for me in light of what’s going on in current events. Seems more than a coincidence to me. And I’ve barely scratched the surface.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Look... I came to an understanding awhile ago and I believe the Lord taught me an invaluable lesson. God can and will use anyone any situation and anything to get His will accomplished. Yes God can will and DOES use Benny Hinn to bring people to salvation in Christ Jesus!. God can will and DOES use Jehovah Witnesses to bring people to salvation.. My only thing that I am unmovable on is the means of Salvation being through Jesus Christ who lived died on the cross and rose again... now how these people come to this belief is completely up to God... So I will continue to give the gospel as I know it and I accept what the Word says that He has a remnant in EVERY church.
Dream
Well-Known Member
True, and there were Bible scholars 150 ago or even longer who predicted that Israel must be rebordered plus one or two of the other things you mentioned, Dondi. Based upon their Bible studies, they predicted some of these things in the face of impossible scenarios, but still doesn't justify all the hype around interpretations of Revelation. That hype makes piles of money and becomes its own set of creeds by which people are owned.Dondi said:
Path-what you said.
Agree whole-heartedly! earl