ego

Nick_A said:
Since I know that chocolate not only inspires love making but is also a laxative, lord knows what the result of all this will be.
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man .... u just completely ruined the image of chocolate in my head...

thanks nick... thanks a lot :mad:
 
"I" is a term which exists within a communally owned store of commonly used signifiers. To use the term "I" is to subscribe to a system of signification which allows language to have common currency encompassing a wide variety of applications. Because we build our sense of self (the legend of "I") from the contents of that commonly held store of signs and signifiers in order to integrate, network, and establish common sense of values with all the "others", it always seems that "I" is synonymous, or very nearly so, with the real person of ourself, but it isn't.

Chris
 
The irony here is that without developing a healthy sense of self, one can not reach the point where that is really understood Chris.
 
"Glory in self like a new monster," wrote Jim Morrison.

We need a new language. The protoplasm of the current control structure resides in our language. We can't escape the programming because it's reinforced, re-enmeshed, and rebroadcast every time we communicate. Language creates, perpetuates, and ultimately controls us.

Chris
 
Paladin said:
The irony here is that without developing a healthy sense of self, one can not reach the point where that is really understood Chris.
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I wouldn't know, Mark. I don't think my sense of self is very healthy. I'm not even sure who I am, what I know, or what I want.

Chris
 
You know Chris, I have always wondered why fools seem so sure of themselves, and people I have come to admire are in a constant state of wonderment.
 
Paladin said:
The irony here is that without developing a healthy sense of self, one can not reach the point where that is really understood Chris.
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I agree. If we understood why a healthy sense of self is based on faith it would answer many questions but just the word "faith," since it has been understood wrongly, carries such a negative connotation I believe that unfortunately for many they must remain stuck in defense mechanisms.
 
Paladin said:
You know Chris, I have always wondered why fools seem so sure of themselves, and people I have come to admire are in a constant state of wonderment.
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"Wonderment" sounds so pleasant!

I heard on NPR recently a short segment about a study which purported to demonstrate a direct and inversely proportional correlation between a person's self perceived lack of control and their perception of apparent patterns in randomly generated visual and aural stimuli. Which means that people who feel that they are not in control of their situation tend to hear voices in white noise and see faces in wood grain and the drapes at night. I think that as one withdraws from the figurehead self, or what I called the "legendary I" toward the real self there are successive levels of allowing that have to take place. It feels like losing control, so in compensation a mirage of apparent order, a metaphysical "system" will emerge from the randomness to lessen the existential sting. Most times we'll seize this latest apparition of order like a disenchanted Protestant embraces Buddhism only to, after some extended period, come around full circle to another point of allowing, accompanied of course by yet another, albeit new and improved, gossamer illusion of control. It's this cycle that's so darn hard to break out of.

Chris
 
Perhaps it is only a process rather than a cycle? If the importance of "I" eventually fades and there is this sense that a role is being played.
 
Ever since I read this line:

That which is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not real." -Ramana Maharshi

I have meditated on there not being an "I" as commonly accepted. There is no conclusion to these contemplations as yet, but an understanding of what Tathagata really means is happening.
 
Yes. The realization of "things as they are" seems to suggest that beyond, or underlying (whichever way makes sense) the fishbowl reality within which "I" emerges as sign and signer there is, well, nothing.

Chris
 
Nick_A said:
Since I know that chocolate not only inspires love making but is also a laxative, lord knows what the result of all this will be.
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Ah, but did you also know that chocolate releases the *exact* same chemicals in the brain as "G-d" does?

References happily provided on request... :D
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
"I" is a term which exists within a communally owned store of commonly used signifiers. To use the term "I" is to subscribe to a system of signification which allows language to have common currency encompassing a wide variety of applications. Because we build our sense of self (the legend of "I") from the contents of that commonly held store of signs and signifiers in order to integrate, network, and establish common sense of values with all the "others", it always seems that "I" is synonymous, or very nearly so, with the real person of ourself, but it isn't.
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Would the commonly held store of signs and signifiers be necessary if there were nothing to convey?

Late to the party am I, as usual. I see Paladin already touched on the confusion of the Freudian use of the term "ego" with whatever new age convolution of the same term. The witty banter that included the id and the super-ego was worth the price of admission, :) .

I have a terrible time when I try to see "self" as some form of illusion. It doesn't make sense to me, and it contradicts the reality I see on the ground.

I am prepared to accept that my subjective experience is just that...subjective, and by no means do I wish to imply that my experience is the objective universal reality.

But there is a distinction to be made, even if I am not sure I can put that distinction into words.

Whether the term used is "self", "ego", or some other, there is a sense of internal being unique to and requisite for every individual. I cannot see outside of "me."
 
I cannot see outside of me either, Juan! I guess that's the rub. But every "me" seems to be the construct of some other me which stands behind it. Is it me's all the way down, or does the bottom drop out somewhere?

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I cannot see outside of me either, Juan! I guess that's the rub. But every "me" seems to be the construct of some other me which stands behind it. Is it me's all the way down, or does the bottom drop out somewhere?

Chris
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The ego is what touches life and connects the higher and the lower in the vertical direction of "being." From the gospel of thomas

(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

To know oneself is to create the ego that receives the world. Our senses are dulled and live in imagination justified through fears and all sorts of negative emotions so we really don't experience the world but rather live by imaginary interpretations. Consequently we cannot know ourselves so cannot be know and prefer la la land to the experience of the higher.

In the Bible the centurion describes this vertical connection

Matthew 8

5When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6"Lord," he said, "my servant lies at home paralyzed and in terrible suffering."

7Jesus said to him, "I will go and heal him."
8The centurion replied, "Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and that one, 'Come,' and he comes. I say to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it." 10When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, "I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
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It is faith as a quality rather than blind faith in something that allows one to retain this connection that allowed the centurion to see his nothingness in relation to the above and dominace over the below. He was able to receive from the higher and nurture the lower. The part within us that potentially can connect the higher with the lower is the conscious ego that allows our inner world to touch the outer world. Our trouble as fallen man is that we live by a corrupt ego governed by fear and imagination that justifies itself with such skill that nothing changes other than dreams. We lack the quality of faith that could psychologically retain this vertical alignment and at the slightest provocation it is lost and we are again nothing but reacting creatures.
 
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