The Poisonous Nature of Religion

[GlorytoGod]

Quite often religion can end up dividing people rather than bringing us together, which I find detestable.

What do you think ?

 

[greymare]

unfortunately sad but true.
howver i like to think that the ten commandments are probably the best guide... and also for myself, personally, i dont need to know everything thats in the bible and what it means...it is a good reference of course, but us humans interpret stuff, badly.

 

[Dream]

I can't argue with that, but how do we expect things to change if people keep starting religions?

 

[c0de]

Quite often religion can end up dividing people rather than bringing us together, which I find detestable.

What do you think ?

So do sports... What do you think about that?
Let me guess, 'people don't kill each other over sports' rite?
What makes you think people kill each other over religion?
A killer is a killer, and would've been a killer, religion or not.

God divided mankind into different tribes so that we could
know each other. He gave us a chance to discover ourselves
through knowing others. So that we can understand that
ultimately, all men and women are the same.

Religion (personal, not institutional) plays a positive role in
that proccess. It teaches man that all are equal before God.
It encourages us to get closer to God, by helping each other.

So no, neither religion or sports divide anyone or anything.
The problem is in man already. No outside factors are responsible.
Religion is a cure for these problems, not its cause.

 

[GlorytoGod]

I can't argue with that, but how do we expect things to change if people keep starting religions?

why would anyone want to start a religion ?

I think part of the problem is that we try to define God and reality which are things really beyond the comprehension of our puny human brains and by doing so we just end up with a load of nonsense.

either that or religion by its very nature is just so profound that most people just dont get it !

 

[Nick_A]

Quite often religion can end up dividing people rather than bringing us together, which I find detestable.

What do you think ?

It is the nature of the beast. Perhaps the "Beast" is poisonous. To make matters worse, what can divide men more then women and what can divide women more then men? Be realistic. Why would you think that people either can or want to be unified? Under what circumstances could it be possible?

 

[GlorytoGod]

It is the nature of the beast. Perhaps the "Beast" is poisonous.

the Beast eh, thats an interesting word to use when discussing the nature of religion.

Be realistic. Why would you think that people either can or want to be unified? Under what circumstances could it be possible?

difficult questions for which I have no answers.

 

[Dream]

...I think part of the problem is that we try to define God and reality which are things really beyond the comprehension of our puny human brains and by doing so we just end up with a load of nonsense....

Yes, and I see the logic of what c0de is saying, too. I think Greymare's opinion carries a lot of weight, too. Fortunately integration is a very ancient problem that has been in the works for thousands of years, and all of us are representative of progress towards its resolution. I do not know how harmonized we can become, but so far new records continue to be set. Those of us who have children can rear them with a perpetual awareness of GlorytoGod's question. I think there are families today that have done that and have been keeping that awareness for a very long time.

 

[Janz]

So do sports... What do you think about that?
Let me guess, 'people don't kill each other over sports' rite?
What makes you think people kill each other over religion?
A killer is a killer, and would've been a killer, religion or not.

God divided mankind into different tribes so that we could
know each other. He gave us a chance to discover ourselves
through knowing others. So that we can understand that
ultimately, all men and women are the same.

Religion (personal, not institutional) plays a positive role in
that proccess. It teaches man that all are equal before God.
It encourages us to get closer to God, by helping each other.

So no, neither religion or sports divide anyone or anything.
The problem is in man already. No outside factors are responsible.
Religion is a cure for these problems, not its cause.

I agree with cOde and I think you can add politics or economics to the equation as well. If you examine the difference between personal faith and institutional religion, people of faith have always practiced unity in diversity. That is why I support a confederation as a possible unifying force within the context of sports, politics and economics, of course.

 

[TealLeaf]

Language, race and culture tend to divide us just as well.

One might think that reason and science would be things that necessarily bring us together but they don't. When it comes write down to it from a rational scientific viewpoint we are all in competition with one another. It's dog eat dog (or more accurately a dogs eat dog) kind of world.

This reminds me of a poem written by a very wise philosopher. If I remember correctly it goes something like this.

It's a dog eat dog
Eat cat too
Fish eat frog
And I eat you
Businessman, when you make a deal
Do you know who you can trust?
Do you sign your life away?
Do you write your name in dust?

Dog eat dog
Read the news
Someone win
Someone lose
Up's above and down's below
And limbo's in between
Up you win, down you lose
It's anybody's game

It's an eye for eye
Tooth for tooth
It's a lie
That's the truth
See a blind man on the street
Looking for something free
Hear the kind man ask his friends
Hey, what's in it for me?

PS - It kind of makes you wonder ... Does God eat God? Does He eat Christ too? The flock eat bod but I eat food.

 

[GlorytoGod]

I agree with cOde and I think you can add politics or economics to the equation as well.

I dont see why we need to do that, I think we can look at religion on its own and see what fruit it brings forth

If you examine the difference between personal faith and institutional religion, people of faith have always practiced unity in diversity.

to be honest I dont consider personal faith to be religion

 

[Thomas]

I dont see why we need to do that, I think we can look at religion on its own and see what fruit it brings forth

The point is that as this 'fruit' is also the product of man's endeavours in other areas, the 'problem' does not lie with religion, but with man.

Addressing religion does not solve the problem, it's an attempt to divert it elsewhere.

Prof. Huston Smith called the world's religions "The winnowed wisdom of the human race" — if you can't see that, then I'm not sure what you're looking at when looking at religion.

 

[GlorytoGod]

The point is that as this 'fruit' is also the product of man's endeavours in other areas, the 'problem' does not lie with religion, but with man.

.

so are you saying that there is nothing wrong with religion in itself but only the people who practice it ?

 

[Postmaster]

The point is that as this 'fruit' is also the product of man's endeavours in other areas, the 'problem' does not lie with religion, but with man.

I disagree. Some ancient religions required human sacrifices, today that is extinct from practise in religion. Ancient and recent monotheistic religions require fasting. Who knows how we will consider fasting in the future? The purpose of Religion is to guide, yet some of the doctrines can make the human condition worse.

 

[c0de]

I disagree. Some ancient religions required human sacrifices, today that is extinct from practise in religion. Ancient and recent monotheistic religions require fasting. Who knows how we will consider fasting in the future? The purpose of Religion is to guide, yet some of the doctrines can make the human condition worse.

Dude, we are not defending the Mayan religious practices of ancient times
Nor is anyone here defending cult like religions of today (Scientology e.g).
I already clearly said that even most mainstream religions are destructive
when institutionalized. But the principles of religion for always contribute
positively to society when applied by the individual.

And you are talking about the human condition, then I will remind you to
take a look at the spiritual condition as well. You have not factored that
in your criteria at all. Fasting may be bad for the physical condition
(technically it is not, and is beneficial if the principle is properly observed)
but is healing and purifying spiritually.

 

[Postmaster]

But sound body sound mind.... I've tried fasting once, I turn moody and start getting agitated with people, especially when working in a demanding environment. A healthy balanced diet is the one that I would recommend. The only part of fasting I can see the spiritual side to is not eating meat as your not causing grief to semi intelligent mammals.

Im using the Mayans as an example of how doctrine can be misleading. However at the time they considered human sacrifices very imporant, with the taboo there society would florish. (Which it didn't)

 

[c0de]

But sound body sound mind.... I've tried fasting once, I turn moody and start getting agitated with people, especially when working in a demanding environment. A healthy balanced diet is the one that I would recommend. The only part of fasting I can see the spiritual side to is not eating meat as your not causing grief to semi intelligent mammals.

But that's the whole point man.

Notice the similarity in the symptoms of an empty stomach
and the withdrawal symptoms of smokers who are trying to quit.
Your desires are being suppressed and you have to go to battle.
It is an attempt at self-purifaction, and self improvement.
The challenge is to do this without caving in, and without flipping
out at your surroundings.... patience. Its the most prized of all virtues,
and one which can not be taught, but has to be earned through struggle.

If you avoid those battles, you can never progress. There is
just no way around this. That is the way God created us.

Im using the Mayans as an example of how doctrine can be misleading. However at the time they considered human sacrifices very imporant, with the taboo there society would florish. (Which it didn't)

I agree with this. Doctrine can be very misleading, and I am not
apologizing for misguided doctrines. I only challenge the idea that
religion is the wholesale cause behind the division of mankind.
Mankind would have been divided with or without religion. But the
basic precepts of religion (and we all have our ideas on which religions
provide those correct doctrines) do indeed bring man closer, rather
then separate them.

 

[17th Angel]

why would anyone want to start a religion ?

lol!? For reals?...

Ok I'll pick a few "chestnuts"....

Power?? These days there are not as many that take religion so serious, and of course not -that- much mythology around these days either... But To a degree there is still power to be taken..... And back in the old days Holy men had the power of kings........

TAX??? lol... Um tax free business? sounds a good reason to me.....

Most reasons come down to money.. Example selling "insurance" no one can prove to be needed....

Extortion???? Pay me or you rot and burn within the depths of hell.... Pay me to baptise your child... Or they shall float in purgatory.... Pay me to read from a book at your loved ones funeueral...

Favour? God wants us to go and stomp the hell out of these bishes over here!! Heathen dogs! They must pay!! Oh and they have something I want too....

Fake hope to make money? come up to the to pc monitor and place your hand upon it! And I will do the same! and for a short fee I will heal you of your ills!!

Organised crime what? lol....

 

[Postmaster]

But that's the whole point man.

Notice the similarity in the symptoms of an empty stomach
and the withdrawal symptoms of smokers who are trying to quit.
Your desires are being suppressed and you have to go to battle.
It is an attempt at self-purifaction, and self improvement.

To me this is sadistic, I learn more when i'm at comfort, alert and through example and observation.

I only challenge the idea that
religion is the wholesale cause behind the division of mankind.
Mankind would have been divided with or without religion. But the
basic precepts of religion (and we all have our ideas on which religions
provide those correct doctrines) do indeed bring man closer, rather
then separate them.

I agree with you I'd say its done more to unite then divide.. There's always going to be misjudgment because God is infinite.

 

[Paladin]

I would have to agree with Thomas here; religion isn't the problem its made out to be.
There is a mistaken idea that we all seem to suffer from and that is that we are separate beings. Religion is just a handy excuse to elevate some and degrade others. If all the world is a stage, religion is used as a prop, the background to act out dysfunctional ideas.