Coming to know God - Book or Spirit?

citizenzen said:
Jeez! Tell me something I don't know!







(and the fact that you call me my own "imaginary" opponent comes close to some zen themes. Nicky, you dawg!)
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nice thread Gatekeeper,

we need both, Spirit and the Book(the word).

spirit is more important in my book :rolleyes:, but the word sometimes seems to become spirit.

the book can also keep you grounded which can be a good thing as without that we might just fly of into infinity, deception and delusion.

as for theology and doctrine for the most part I think that they are poison.
 
Faithfulservant said:
To this Bible believing Christian;)

The Spirit interprets the Word for us and the Word is the known will of God.. that and prayer is how we commmunicate with Him..
prayer is how the Spirit reveals the unknown will of God.

The two go hand and hand.
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I agree, scripture and prayer.
 
Wonderful thread, Gatekeeper

I believe that in order to know about God, one has to read the Book, but to be with Him, to meet Him, to feel His presence inside and outside us, one has to strive for that through turning His words into real actions.

By the process of time, and by continuous striving for God's pleasure through words and actions, one begins to feel God within him/her, one will start uniting with God, one will start knowing God through personal eperience: God will be manifested in one's heart.

if one has not ever witnessed the presence of God in his/her heart, he/she will not ever get touched even by reading the Book a thousand times. Knowing God, I believe, needs strive and sacrifice, purification of heart, devotion to the only God, the expelling of fear from any human power, and doing anything, doing it for only God's pleasure.
 
dailogue is the best said:
Wonderful thread, Gatekeeper

I believe that in order to know about God, one has to read the Book, but to be with Him, to meet Him, to feel His presence inside and outside us, one has to strive for that through turning His words into real actions.

By the process of time, and by continuous striving for God's pleasure through words and actions, one begins to feel God within him/her, one will start uniting with God, one will start knowing God through personal eperience: God will be manifested in one's heart.

if one has not ever witnessed the presence of God in his/her heart, he/she will not ever get touched even by reading the Book a thousand times. Knowing God, I believe, needs strive and sacrifice, purification of heart, devotion to the only God, the expelling of fear from any human power, and doing anything, doing it for only God's pleasure.
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nice post :)

but I am not into striving to meet God, but thats me.

BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: John 15

I prefer to be a branch in vine or the tree of life, and just let the sap flow and love and life flow. let go of ourselves and let God come in.

John 3:30 (New American Standard Bible)

30"He must increase, but I must decrease.
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and I think I read a different book to you.

but Praise God and may he bless you with his presence :)
 
funny thing,,,,, i was not striving to meet god, but i did just one day. asked him a question,,,,,,,,,,, he might have been shocked because up until that point i had denied his very existence..but he answered me and i felt so wonderful. that there was no denying it.
this was His being there for me when i needed it. i wasnt striving , i wasnt studying i was actually on Cr at the time.
so i agree that his presence is felt in actions etc, but i really didnt do anything special and he revealed his love to me.
 
citizenzen said:
The Buddha didn't need scripture to experience enlightenment.

The most valuable "scripture" is the moment at hand, the one you are experiencing right now.
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The Bhudda had a full knowledge of Hinduism, Jesus had a full knowledge of Judaism...

From each of their scriptures they expanded.

Newton brought us Calculus, but on the heels of the math he was taught.

While I think one can attain a connection without books, in most cases for many people it is easier to understand and grasp what they are feeling when they have others testimony to corroborate some...or does it color their experience...hmmm.

Either way, the books, the scriptures, the readings provide a fertile soil for growth.
 
wil said:
The Bhudda had a full knowledge of Hinduism.
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I have knowledge of Dr. Seuss. But that doesn't mean that I would have gained enlightenment by studying and reciting "Green Eggs and Ham".

If Hinduism was important to the Buddha one would think he might have mentioned it.
 
Reading the Holy Books might have some spiritual value. It is my understanding that the search for God or Spiritual Enlightenment is beyond all the Holy Books of mankind.

Hermano Luis
Moriviví Hermitage
 
citizenzen said:
I have knowledge of Dr. Seuss. But that doesn't mean that I would have gained enlightenment by studying and reciting "Green Eggs and Ham".

If Hinduism was important to the Buddha one would think he might have mentioned it.
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Oh sure, dump on the green-egg and hamians, they're an easy target aren't they! :D
 
Hermano Luis said:
Reading the Holy Books might have some spiritual value. It is my understanding that the search for God or Spiritual Enlightenment is beyond all the Holy Books of mankind.

Hermano Luis
Moriviví Hermitage
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I think they (Scriptures) are a good starting point, but I also believe that there are deeper realities, and truths to be found outside the Holy books of mankind. I think that they are, or rather can be beneficial, but I also see where some interpretations of could be a danger to society. I view life to be a journey toward the reality of G-d. Every experience leads us further in and further up in that reality. I think mindfulness, and desire to be better than we are at present is what ultimately makes way for true 'enlightenment'.

Then, how do we define enlightenment when we have not yet reached it? Is it merely a hope to connect, and unify, or is it something beyond our reach as a species? Coming to know G-d is not an easy task, as there are so many differing views of what G-d consists of. I think we take what resonates within each of us as individuals, and then follow the path that suits us best. I think knowing G-d might be different for everyone, as everyone is quite unique when it comes to what resonates within.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am pretty much clueless in the grand scheme of things, but feel that G-d has allowed me to know a tiny glimpse of His majesty. He has shown me that I can live in peace with my neighbor simply by understanding that we are one in essence yet uniquely different. I truly believe that when we are truly able to love one another as we love ourselves, we reach a point of contentment, where we feel no need to judge, or ridicule, or look down on those who seem to be without what has brought peace in our lives.

GK
 
Gatekeeper said:
I think they (Scriptures) are a good starting point, but I also believe that there are deeper realities, and truths to be found outside the Holy books of mankind. I think that they are, or rather can be beneficial, but I also see where some interpretations of could be a danger to society.
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Not to mention forums.

Nothing is more boring (IMHO) than to watch people nit-pick over the exact and precise meaning of this scripture or that sutra.
 
I don't know, Zen ... I enjoy contemplating the meanings of scripture, and have found that when we nit pick over the meanings, we are able to expand our own views. That is, if we are open to anothers point of view.

GK
 
greymare said:
funny thing,,,,, i was not striving to meet god, but i did just one day. asked him a question,,,,,,,,,,, he might have been shocked because up until that point i had denied his very existence..but he answered me and i felt so wonderful. that there was no denying it.
this was His being there for me when i needed it. i wasnt striving , i wasnt studying i was actually on Cr at the time.
so i agree that his presence is felt in actions etc, but i really didnt do anything special and he revealed his love to me.
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That is very cool, greymare. I will remember it.
 
Gatekeeper said:
I don't know, Zen ... I enjoy contemplating the meanings of scripture, and have found that when we nit pick over the meanings, we are able to expand our own views. That is, if we are open to anothers point of view. GK
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That's a mighty rare "if".

More typical are the posts like these on Kierkegaard (http://www.interfaith.org/forum/the-great-beast-10914-2.html#post184912) where either side just calls each other a complete idiot.

Don't get me wrong, I love calling people complete idiots too. I just tend to stick to broader subjects.

Probably because I'm an art school drop-out who never read Kierkegaard.
 
GlorytoGod said:
nice post :)

but I am not into striving to meet God, but thats me.

BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: John 15

I prefer to be a branch in vine or the tree of life, and just let the sap flow and love and life flow. let go of ourselves and let God come in.

and I think I read a different book to you.

but Praise God and may he bless you with his presence :)
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Well, GlorytoGod, a lover always strive for the pleasure of his beloved. And the more one is in love, the more services he/ she presents out of love.

Accordingly, the more you love God, the more you strive for His pleasure, because a lover cannot find another more important, and exciting pleasure than meeting and connecting the beloved.

I may understand, GlorytoGod, that you want to show me that God in your opinion is more loving than God in my opinion. However, brother, I feel you are somehow mistaken. For me, God is loving to the extent that He never ever expel anyone, no matter what he/ she did, from His mercy and love.

Yet, brother, when I am saying that we should strive for God's pleasure, I simply meant that God wants us to be happy, and that happiness cant be achieved unless we cling to God, and strive for His pleasure. And believe me, brother, that I stand puzzled to find out that God's pleasure is the only right for our true happiness.

God wants us to come to Him because He wants us to be happy.

I liked the quotation you cited, GlorytoGod. "I must decrease" how wonderful...how amazing...and how shorter, and full of meanings. Yes, brother, we must decrease, and that decreasing is what I m talking about. We must decrease in front of Him. We are poor, He is The Rich. We are weak, He is The Strong. We are ignorant, He is the Knower. We are the fool, He is The Wise.........we cant obtain some of His Characters unless we are connected to Him.. We cant enjoy life unless we are the lasting and the source of truth. For if you are Him, then for sure you are strong, wise, knower, rich....Simply if you are with Him, you are in lasting happinness. You are with the Absolute..
 
greymare said:
funny thing,,,,, i was not striving to meet god, but i did just one day. asked him a question,,,,,,,,,,, he might have been shocked because up until that point i had denied his very existence..but he answered me and i felt so wonderful. that there was no denying it.
this was His being there for me when i needed it. i wasnt striving , i wasnt studying i was actually on Cr at the time.
so i agree that his presence is felt in actions etc, but i really didnt do anything special and he revealed his love to me.
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Hello, greymare,

You know what? Your story really touched my heart in one way or in another. Why? Because it sipmly shows how our Creator is loving and always present with us. He is with us whenever we need Him, though we may disobey His words and teachings. And that something which put us in an emabarassing situation. How can we deviate the Words of such loving God whose Words are in essence in our benefits, not His. He is free from all wants and desires, and self-exsisting, not like us. So, how come we cant come running to such a loving God!!!
God says: '“My servant! I brought you into existence out of nothing. And I granted you hearing, sight, brain and reasoning.

My servant! I cover you but you do not fear Me.

My servants! I remember you but you forget Me. My servant! I feel shy from exposing your sins but you do not feel shy from Me.

Now! Who is more generous than me? And who is this who knocked on My door but I did not open for him. And who is this who asked from Me but I did not give him.

Am I stingy or miser that My servant acts stingy with Me?!”

 
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