Looking into Buddhism?

I agree. But I am not setting out to attack individuals only to highlight my own thinking on these subjects. The problem with language is in order to be understood you need to use examples. I do not want to insult or hurt any individual but I have views that people can take as personal attacks. Am I to be silent rather than risk offence where none is intended?
No, you should not remain silent, but maybe try and be as specific as possible about what you are attacking and/or criticizing. Just to use a crude example (not gonna say you have done this, but it illustrates my point): If you attack the papal institution (especially the horrible history they have) I would agree with you as a Christian, if you swing at the whole of Christianity because of that I would disagree with you.
I do not believe that religion is evil, but it most certainly can be a tool used in its name. The wicked can make anything seem evil.

And thank you for the welcome :)
 
... I happen to think Tao has a point...

it would be nice for us all to see buddhism for what it is- another religion, and like all the others, imperfect, yet a lot of buddhists don't...

personally, I think it has something to do with the proscriptions against defiling the jewels of the triple refuge- to speak ill of your sangha (community) is indicative of dissention and weak-faith...

yet buddhism has its child molesters, and its adulterers, and its misappropriators of funds, just like every other religion has...

buddhism has... issues... if you look to the texts you will find...

...the view that women are inferior and not intelligent enough to teach,
...a mindset which suggests the sick and the disabled deserve such via "karma", same too for any other misfortunate one,
...enlightenment, not for all, but only the "elite"...

and, unfortunately, we find these same themes in every religion... oppression of women, "just-world" beliefs (If I am good then good will occur, if bad happens it is "bad-me"), elitism, and the building of golden temples while the poor starve...

this is the issue with all religions...

as for "japanese buddhism" being much like Shinto- I agree wholeheartedly... the heavenly kings... the sacred japonica... the bushido way... none of this is buddhism...

buddhism is a philosophy dreamt up by an Indian aristocrat who was influenced by Hinduism. By the time Buddhism gets to Japan it was already corrupted to a degree by Chinese influences, and then it is influenced again by the Japanese. We do not have a pure buddhism- nobody knows what it is. Every form of buddhism is a hybrid.

This is nothing new- Irish Catholics come from the same family as Russian Orthodox Christians- are the forms the same..? nope... why is that?

because religion is influenced by culture and vise-versa...
 
... I happen to think Tao has a point...

I also think Tao has a point.

When religions become institutional and part of the state they are corrupted.

Whether it's Christianity, Islamism, Buddhism or Hinduism, they have all traded inspiration for power, insight for bureaucracy, uniqueness for conventionalism.

So I urge you all to leave your churches.

Return to the roots of your faith and find what you seek by yourself.

It may seem scary and insurmountable, but with patience and diligence you will be rewarded.
 
None of us know everything. I try, even though many may feel I fail miserably, to understand things as much by what they are 'not' as by what they are claimed to be. This can be somewhat frowned upon as I offer only criticism and no solutions. Well I shrug off such criticism and see it as nothing more than a device long used by those who wish to protect their ideas by questioning the integrity of the critic rather than what the critic says. You can know something pretty well from knowing what it is not.

I thought your negativity was just role playing a dour Scot!:p

Additionaly there is, as far as I can gather, so much intermixing of Buddhism and Shinto that separation is but an academic and not a practically meaningful endeavour.
Culturally, in Japan, there is also intermixing with Confucianism as well perhaps. It remains the case though that as religions they arise from a different root and are distinctive in teachings and practices.


Ohhh no not that again. Science can be used as a tool to examine some of the claims religionists make. But it is my own intellect (yeh go on and giggle) not science that forms my opinion. I wonder how many times I will have to say that before someone here actually understands it. Science, to me at least, is not a religion. It is a process and method of enquiry and a body of verifiable knowledge. Nothing at all like any religion.
It just seems to be your favourite comparator as the only light of wisdom.

Yet if you have the money, such as with certain Hollywood stars, the Dalai Lama is quite willing to sell you 'holiness'.
I don't know what you mean by this. :confused:

So you think people do not behave according to the teachings they have accepted hold value? Curious.
Curious you find it curious. Your quote from the “United Buddhist Leadership” is an example. The person or persons responsible for this statement were perhaps contravening the eightfold path and the bodhisattva vow.

s.



 
I also think Tao has a point.

When religions become institutional and part of the state they are corrupted.

Whether it's Christianity, Islamism, Buddhism or Hinduism, they have all traded inspiration for power, insight for bureaucracy, uniqueness for conventionalism.

So I urge you all to leave your churches.

Return to the roots of your faith and find what you seek by yourself.

It may seem scary and insurmountable, but with patience and diligence you will be rewarded.

I understand that institutions can become corrupted. Are you advocating seeking without dharma and / or sangha?

s.
 
I understand that institutions can become corrupted. Are you advocating seeking without dharma and / or sangha?

Sangha can be family, friends, mentors, forums, books or other sources of support and inspiration.

I'm not sure what you mean by "without dharma." I don't see how one can separate from dharma even if one tried.
 


I thought your negativity was just role playing a dour Scot!:p
Dour!! That makes me think Gordon Frown! lol, I suppose my 'fervour' can seem a bit Presbyterian..... or a Pink Floyd schoolteacher caricature..... but maybe I'm just the 'scary' janitor from The Simpsons.... you got me thinking :confused: :) :D I know....I'm the prison warden from Porridge keeping my eye on you villains :rolleyes::D
YouTube - Porridge - Classic British Sitcom

Culturally, in
Japan, there is also intermixing with Confucianism as well perhaps. It remains the case though that as religions they arise from a different root and are distinctive in teachings and practices.
Yeh. They love whisky too. But my points relating to Buddhism will usually be regarding the similarities between it and other religions...yet no doubt arging about Buddhism here will greatly increase my knowledge on it.... every cloud n all that ;)

It just seems to be your favourite comparator as the only light of wisdom.
It is no light of 'wisdom' and I do not think it claims to be. It is the brightest light of knowledge however.

I don't know what you mean by this. :confused:
He annointed Richard Gere and Steven Segal as holy following big donations. So you can 'buy' holiness from him.

Curious you find it curious. Your quote from the “United Buddhist Leadership” is an example. The person or persons responsible for this statement were perhaps contravening the eightfold path and the bodhisattva vow.
You would know that better than I. But the point is, and I keep having to repeat this on this forum, your interpretation of Buddhism is not its totality. I think this basic confusion is not helped by my occasional challenges that seem provocative and personalised when I never intend that. Partly my own fault for having made actual outright attacks. Partly not my fault at all.

But do not worry Snoopy, I am not opening a third front!! I saw what happened to Napolean and Hitler... my quest for world domination will be deal with the small fry later ;):)
 
Sangha can be family, friends, mentors, forums, books or other sources of support and inspiration.

Of course. :)

I'm not sure what you mean by "without dharma." I don't see how one can separate from dharma even if one tried.
Well I didn't quite understand you and didn't want to presume anything if I could avoid it. I mean dharma to mean the teaching or truth asserted, perhaps with a capital D rather than dharmas (my bad). This has been transmitted and enunciated by founders and members of institutions / churches, imo, so...such things as books that you refer to are the supposed words of people who may have been members or founders of places that may be or have become corrupted. In essence, I'm saying (badly) that one couldn't call oneself a "Buddhist" if one had never been exposed to the Dharma in some format. Jeez, I'm rambling. :rolleyes:

Any institution is only as good as its members. Maybe that's why you're a sangha of one!

s.
 
Dour!! .... you got me thinking :confused: :) :D I know....I'm the prison warden from Porridge keeping my eye on you villains :rolleyes::D
YouTube - Porridge - Classic British Sitcom

Yes, he was far more of a character than the wet lettuce English one!
Yeh. They love whisky too. But my points relating to Buddhism will usually be regarding the similarities between it and other religions...yet no doubt arging about Buddhism here will greatly increase my knowledge on it.... every cloud n all that ;)

It will certainly increase your knowledge of what individuals here may think they know about it!
He annointed Richard Gere and Steven Segal as holy following big donations. So you can 'buy' holiness from him.
I didn’t know this. I know little of Tibetan Buddhism. On face value, this appears to me as dubious as no doubt it does to you.

You would know that better than I. But the point is, and I keep having to repeat this on this forum, your interpretation of Buddhism is not its totality.
Of course not. :)

Tao, I would assert that no single person’s interpretation of Buddhism is its totality; except perhaps for that person. As I’ve said on another thread to Thomas, I can obviously only provide my incomplete, misunderstood, interpretation of “Buddhism”. And it is such a disparate thing, that perhaps one sometimes needs to be clear about which Buddhism one is talking about. Not helpful I admit for a disinterested atheist (or maybe irrelevant if all religions are viewed as basically the same).


But do not worry Snoopy, I am not opening a third front!! I saw what happened to Napolean and Hitler... my quest for world domination will be deal with the small fry later ;):)
Oh deep joy. :rolleyes:

s.
 
Are we supposed to understand anything you say?


There's a Buddhist! Staring at a tree. One for all. All for free!


But we want to put conditions on things, like power over play, peace over war, night over day.
 
Settle into nothingness, as a cloud does to the sky, or the earth does to the moon above as a wink does the eye.
 
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