is conversion appropriate in this age?

Dondi, I've never had to advertise it. And I don't think I'm anything special.

People have noticed ways I am different about some things, and they ask me about my faith/religion/spirituality. My testimony is my life, plain and simple. There is no better advertisement.

If something is life changing, that change is the best advertisement for it that can possibly be. If, as Christians, we are called to be the light of the world- how can we go unnoticed?

My personal take is the same as this quote (forgetting the person, at the moment): Speak the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words. I don't think sharing the Gospel, or, as Nick is putting it, engaging in the bodhisattva work of awakening people, requires banging them over the head with advertisement. Hey, even the marketers of non-religious products know that the best advertisement is the product actually working! I don't have to advertise for my hair stylist- if she does a good job, people ask me for her name...

So, my overall sentiment is that I am not a salesperson and was never called to be one. God does not need lil' ole me to sell Him. He just needs me to be willing to listen to others, to be kind, to be giving, to be forgiving. The rest falls into place on its own. Most people need someone to listen to them more than they need someone to tell them something. When they have their emotional and social and physical needs met, and when they see that I genuinely care about them, they ask me about spirituality.

I never seek to convert people, and I hold firmly that conversion is, indeed, bringing people from one social group to another. It is not awakening them. The two are entirely different actions on the part of the guide and on the part of the individual who is changing. People can awaken in nearly any religion that promotes love, faith, hope, peace, and connecting to the joy of God. Any religion/path that teaches to give up oneself in order to be filled with Something More, that teaches justice and mercy and "humbly walking with one's God." I've seen awake people in Judaism, Islam, Christianity, neo-Paganism, indigenous religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism... on and on. It's not to say all paths are the same, but rather that many paths lead to the Divine One and the transformation that occurs as we commune with It. Awakening someone involves being the midwife that assists their birth into a more connected state within whatever their religion/path is. Converting someone involves moving them from one religion/path to another- from one social group to another.

Case in point... when Christian missionaries have shown up at my door, they are not content with my being Christian. Nor are they content to have a mutual conversation. They want me to go to their church. To have others agree with them feeds their own ego and sense of rightness, affirms their own social group is the best one, and brings more cash and attendees into the fold. If they were seeking to awaken me, they would be more concerned with my life and less concerned with whose registry I am on. Conversely, I've had many deep and fabulous conversations with people of all faiths who were genuinely committed to their own religion, yet open to assisting me in furthering my awake-ness. And each one told me it is not necessary to change religions, only necessary to change one's priorities- indeed, to be willing to give up the self for a greater measure of the Divine.

I would put forth that sharing the Gospel or awakening others is a categorically different task than converting someone. Being an awake individual that shares the Divine love with others (being Christ's hands, feet, eyes, and mouth) is a very different thing than going to church.
 
also any suggestion on how to deter Jehovah's Witnesses ?

they keep coming round on saturday mornings lol :eek:
That is a perfect question for this thread. The reality is they are doing what every proslytizing Christian is doing. Trying to save others. Now their understanding of what the bible says, Christianity is, and saving means may be different from yours. But when you (the collective you) are trying to go out and save others you are doing the exact same thing.

So if any of us feel any issues regarding Baptists, or Mormon's or JW's or Whatever religion trying to tell us what is right and what we need to or should do...they are simply providing us with a mirror of what we look like, act like when we do the same.

Halleluiah
 
also any suggestion on how to deter Jehovah's Witnesses ?

they keep coming round on saturday mornings lol :eek:

Tell them you are Wiccan. Or a witch. Or a Druid. Any type of neo-Pagan. That seems to deter Christian missionaries of all sorts, because although there are Christian Druids (I'm one) and I've met Christian witches (and Christian Wiccans, though I'm skeptical about how that works), I've noticed that none of the denominations of Christianity that send out missionaries door to door are comfy with the idea and assume that the two are polar opposites. They are so uncomfortable with neo-Paganism that they generally avoid you after that.

Or, alternatively, you could just tell them you are very busy, but by all means, let's take 5 minutes and say a little prayer together and read a Bible verse. It's the opposite tactic- you focus on what you have in common but then shoo them out before they get into the weeds with the details.

Interestingly, people seem mostly to want to convert people that are almost like them, but not quite. The ones that are really not like them, they don't even try. :rolleyes:
 
People have noticed ways I am different about some things, and they ask me about my faith/religion/spirituality. My testimony is my life, plain and simple. There is no better advertisement.
Amen, play the tune in your head sister...

A-amen, A-men, A-amen, A-men, A-men,

Sing it brother

A-amen, A-men, A-amen, A-men, A-men.

Yuppers!! If you exude love, if you are still content while others around you are fussing, they tend to ask what is going on!

As Martin Ghandi said, I have a dream to be the change I wish to see in the world.
 
If you feel you have found salvation.... Then you are going to want others to be saved... Maybe lol.

But the question is conversion appropriate in this age? Well, yes, you have to find what suits you best, religion is a tailor made thing, and if you have a suit that is too tight, short and itchy... You'd be an idiot to stick with it... Get an all new flashy suit! Oh well "in this age" there is no reason to convert, I'll just suffer, put up with, accept my religion. That makes no sense.. In "this age" or "that age" or the "next age" live comfortably :)
 
also any suggestion on how to deter Jehovah's Witnesses ?
they keep coming round on saturday mornings lol :eek:

1: Answer the door stark naked.
2: Get your partner to answer the door with you (ditto).
3: Same-gender partner is even better.
4: Record a fight off a TV homicide show. Switch recording on as the come up the garden path.
5: Open the door holding some kind of weapon.
6: Laugh hysterically at everything they say.
7: When they're talking, hold you hand up to interrupt them, cock your head to one side, and pay particular attention to the voices in your head.
8: Argue with yourself while they're talking, a la Gollum.
9: Squirt lighter fuel or other flammable material on the floor at their feet whilst they're talking. Make sure they know you have a zippo handy.
10: Open the door awkwardly, a tie round your bicep, one end in your mouth, a syringe in the other hand, and motion at one of them to hold the other end of the tie and pull it for you...
11: Shout over your shoulder, "Unlock the cellar, ma!"
Just a few ... I've forgotten the others ...

... no-one comes to see me anymore ...

Thomas
 
That is a perfect question for this thread. The reality is they are doing what every proslytizing Christian is doing. Trying to save others. Now their understanding of what the bible says, Christianity is, and saving means may be different from yours. But when you (the collective you) are trying to go out and save others you are doing the exact same thing.

So if any of us feel any issues regarding Baptists, or Mormon's or JW's or Whatever religion trying to tell us what is right and what we need to or should do...they are simply providing us with a mirror of what we look like, act like when we do the same.

Halleluiah

well if Gods in it great, if not its a pain in the ass

John 6:44

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
 
1: Answer the door stark naked.
2: Get your partner to answer the door with you (ditto).
3: Same-gender partner is even better.
4: Record a fight off a TV homicide show. Switch recording on as the come up the garden path.
5: Open the door holding some kind of weapon.
6: Laugh hysterically at everything they say.
7: When they're talking, hold you hand up to interrupt them, cock your head to one side, and pay particular attention to the voices in your head.
8: Argue with yourself while they're talking, a la Gollum.
9: Squirt lighter fuel or other flammable material on the floor at their feet whilst they're talking. Make sure they know you have a zippo handy.
10: Open the door awkwardly, a tie round your bicep, one end in your mouth, a syringe in the other hand, and motion at one of them to hold the other end of the tie and pull it for you...
11: Shout over your shoulder, "Unlock the cellar, ma!"
Just a few ... I've forgotten the others ...

... no-one comes to see me anymore ...

Thomas

i like number 10 best :D

I think this deserves a new thread lol
 
1: Answer the door stark naked.
2: Get your partner to answer the door with you (ditto).
3: Same-gender partner is even better.
4: Record a fight off a TV homicide show. Switch recording on as the come up the garden path.
5: Open the door holding some kind of weapon.
6: Laugh hysterically at everything they say.
7: When they're talking, hold you hand up to interrupt them, cock your head to one side, and pay particular attention to the voices in your head.
8: Argue with yourself while they're talking, a la Gollum.
9: Squirt lighter fuel or other flammable material on the floor at their feet whilst they're talking. Make sure they know you have a zippo handy.
10: Open the door awkwardly, a tie round your bicep, one end in your mouth, a syringe in the other hand, and motion at one of them to hold the other end of the tie and pull it for you...
11: Shout over your shoulder, "Unlock the cellar, ma!"
Just a few ... I've forgotten the others ...

... no-one comes to see me anymore ...

Thomas

Absolutely priceless!
 
Well, Alex- we can always keep the suit, but pull out our sewing machine and reconstruct a bit. ;) There's plenty of that going on, too.

My take on it is that conversion is appropriate in any age, since people in all ages will be people. That is, they'll find there are social groups that are better fits than others, given their personalities, backgrounds, etc.

But we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking conversion=awakening. Or that conversion=salvation. Etc. That's the problem, IMO. That's the psychological manipulation that people use to get converts. They confuse signing a member's directory and pledging some cash, showing up at a building, and so forth with deliverance. Doesn't much matter which social group you pick, awakening is possible in all people and has not much to do with labels.

This is, I think, partially why Jesus said people would come to Him and say, "Lord, Lord- we did XYZ in Your name!" and He will say, "I never knew you."

Deliverance, salvation, awakening... it isn't about our chosen building we go to on Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
 
Interestingly, people seem mostly to want to convert people that are almost like them, but not quite. The ones that are really not like them, they don't even try. :rolleyes:

thats it, i think my beliefs are quite close to theirs, and I can live with differences and accept them as part of the body of Christ :rolleyes: but i dont think they see things the same way, it was about a year ago that they started coming round I had just become a christian so when somebody knocked on my door wanting to talk about Jesus I thought why not, but now they are trying to me into some bible study with them, and honestly i dont really want to be one of them, sigh.
 
I guess it can be seen as funny, I just think it is weird that people are so hostile towards others for only wanting to share :/ I have loads of JW friends they are good nice people..... Portraited as brainwashed wackos, which also are deemed acceptable to make fun of....

Po1: I danced the funky chicken in the name of the lord! I was totally like "lord lord! I did the funky chicken in your name" and he was like "you totally rock." And I was like "totally"

But, yeah it is also possible to adapt and modify the suit.... I found it far easier to simply go butt nekid!!!
 
GTG- that's because from what I've noticed, if you're totally different from someone, they give up almost immediately. When you're *almost* like them, but only a little different, it gets under their skin. They can't write you off as one of the damned (I say that partially in jest), necessarily, but the fact that you're a bit different is very problematic and troubling. It calls into question their own beliefs. So it's best if they can get you into their church, and then all is right with the world.

I'm kind of cynical about these conversion things, but it isn't without cause. I've actually been quite fascinated with it and studying it from a cognitive anthropological perspective for a while. What I am *not* cynical about is the capacity for people to awaken and be saved/delivered. I have seen that work. But I am avowedly skeptical about it working because you sign on to go where ever and do some ritual. Chalk it up to my more Buddhist and Druid side, where a great deal of personal work is involved by the awakening person, but I think awakening or deliverance is a process, not a one-time event that occurs when you start attending some weekly service.

As for Thomas' list, I chuckled. We should have a thread somewhere devoted to odd ways to get rid of salespeople of all sorts.

I did talk to one witch who happened to answer the door *during* her ceremony... she was naked (or, more appropriately, "skyclad"). Everyone was naked. And they had a pentagram drawn on the floor. She was quite welcoming and offered for them to come in and see what their religion was about, but the people declined. LOL They did not return. :D

Po1: I danced the funky chicken in the name of the lord! I was totally like "lord lord! I did the funky chicken in your name" and he was like "you totally rock." And I was like "totally"

But, yeah it is also possible to adapt and modify the suit.... I found it far easier to simply go butt nekid!!!

Alex... LOL Hey, man, God loves dancing. I swear, when I saw Matt Harding's video (www.wherethehellismatt.com) my first thought was really "God is happy with this dude." We need more funky chicken and less bombing the hell out of each other.

I found butt nekkid to be great attire in sunny So Cal. Somehow in mushy Seattle it is not so appealing... I guess God gave us the capacity to think up clothing since He knew we'd eventually leave the tropics. (And yeah, though it's true in its literal sense, there is an analogy to religion in there somewhere.)
 
lots of answers there already! did anyone read my last post asking; what if i convert to all then i convert to none ~ kinda.

nick a

yes there are many sides to the question, as indeed there are many different answers [see my last post]. there is nothing wrong with telling people ones truth, as long as they ask. believe me, if anyone can say what the truth is then we would all come flocking to that truth. :)
unfortunately reality is a tad more complex than any particular understanding and indeed language itself.

i think there are many truths to be learned from all faiths, the problem only comes with the labels.
if a christian or jew could marry a muslim or a pagan and bring up their children without indoctrination, then all is well.

mee
its all part of Gods purpose to send out those who have good things to declare, and its all GOODNEWS .

yes 2,000 years ago that may have been a worthy cause, but we can all read now and i cannot image that anyone has not heard of the bible. there can’t be many people who have not read it!
 
Who would though? I'd of been like "the people in that house are freaking crazy...."

Really? I'd have stayed and watched.

But then, as an anthropolgist, I'm curious like that. And not at all shy. I'd see it as a great opportunity to learn something about another belief system- and a rare opportunity. But then, I don't have hang-ups about nudity or see it as necessarily sexual, the way most Euro-American people do. It's all about context.

Eh, I suppose that's the difference between normal and social scientist? ;)

There's a great cartoon I saw on another prof's door the other day. A stick man walked up to a podium and touched the mic. A bolt of lightening came down and zapped him. At that point, two arrows pointed to two different scenarios. One stick man (the normal one) thought "Wow- won't do that again!" The other stick man (the scientist) thought "Now, I wonder if it does that every time?"
 
Has nothing to do with being shy lol.... Just a bunch of naked "witches" and "wizards" and hobbits and whatever lol.... All running around some room butt nekid with a pentagram on the floor lol... That is just cuckoo, cuckoo... In my opinion of course...
 
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