God is holy, beyond words... indescribable. But we can attempt to convey God through words, if others can't hear God in other ways. The holiness is in us, within our bodies and minds, knit into our psyches, even if we deny it, deny God. And it takes a "burning bush" experience to capture our attention to the direct relationship to God through nature, also - God being void of any gender identity, at least in being that God is present in all equally well, can be, equally holy, balanced between the opposites of good and evil.
holysmoke
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Most Christians and Jews have no idea that Yahweh started off in life as the Canaanite sea and river god, Yamm, one of the sons of EL Elyon, God Most High. There is an ancient Canaanite text wherein EL renames Yamm, Yah or Yahwe. Even the Tanakh contains traces of this earlier identity of Yahweh as one of the sons of EL, e.g. Psalm 82, 86, and Dueteronomy 32 in Hebrew. Hebrews were great at borrowing other (pagan) people's religious ideas and reinventing them to make pagan gods or pagan religious concepts into Hebrew progenitors, e.g. Adam and Eve derived from Sumerian/Babylonian creation myths, e.g. Abraham and Sarah and Hagar derived from Brahma, Sarasvati, and Ghaggar, e.g. Noah derived from the Epic of Gilgamesh, and YHWH derived from Yahweh/Yamm by subsuming EL Elyon into Yahweh.
Unfortunately, the almagamation of EL and Yahweh, EL's son could not encompass EL's prior separate and distinct identity from His war-god son, Yahweh. YHWH then has been a thoroughly schizoid god ever since showing Yahweh, the war god's personality as the Lord of Hosts and acting just like a military commander who will not brook any dissent in the troops to the wonderous wisdom and compassion of EL Elyon.
Christians and many others have often noted the difference in spiritual instruction between Jesus' spiritual Father, his Abba, his Daddy, and the Old Testament God of Israel. Well, the difference is Jesus re-established the original Hebrew tribal god, Yahweh's relationship as Son to God Most High, EL Elyon. Jesus, standing for Yahweh, found His true spiritual Father, EL the Compassionate One, EL the Kindly One, EL the Friendly One, all of these being Canaanite appellations of EL whom the Canaanites loved dearly and sought out for forgiveness of their sins. As long as Christians believe YHWH is God they will believe and act just as schizophrenic as Yahweh does, being kind and gentle here and a terror there. I thank God for directing me to find the original God Most High which you too can find by reading Semitic Languages professor John Gray's book, Near Eastern Mythology. Prof. Margaret Barker's book, The Great Angel gives the history of ancient Hebrew worship of Yahweh as a Son or Great Angel of EL.
YHWH is for Jews but EL Elyon as our heavenly Father and Jesus Christ as His Son, is for us Christians.
M
mee
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I thank God for directing me to find the original God Most High which you too can find by reading quote]
THE BIBLE
HE CAUSES TO BECOME ,And he will prove to be, what he will prove to be .
I thank God for directing me to find the original God Most High which you too can find by reading quote]
HE CAUSES TO BECOME ,And he will prove to be, what he will prove to be .
Grace replaced the law. Sorry, wake up.
They didn't call me "Plymouth Brethren" for nothin'. Oh yeah, can go there.
Summia Rahmaan
love to face challenges
Herein Bible tells another Holy name "Eli"
Thats why I said and quoting again:
About name! what is Holy and what is not will be decided later...at least believe in ONE GOD first for the sake of unity. I do favor for unity first!
Why do we seek for One Name of God? God has most beautiful NAME(s) indeed.
M
mee
Guest
Grace replaced the law. Sorry, wake up.
They didn't call me "Plymouth Brethren" for nothin'. Oh yeah, can go there.
And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He (Jesus)said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” matthew 22;35-40
Not only Matthew but all the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures quoted verses from the Hebrew text or from the Septuagint where the divine name appears.
Regarding a question from a lawyer, a Pharisee, after Jesus had put the Sadducees to silence.
22:37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord, thy God, with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (KJV)
39 And the second is like it, Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself.
That second line is what blows me away. Yes! I love that equality. Jesus is God.
Is the writer quoting the OT or is Jesus? Interesting freudian slip there.
Remember in Luke it was the other way around...Jesus was just answering as any Jew would as the lord commanded that they teach their children, repeat it morning and night, put in on your door and bind it....
Ah, no. And who was it that paid Judas to deliver the whereabouts of Jesus for the Romans? And this is a lesson why authority cannot be trusted - Matt. 26 3,4 Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto of the palace of the high priest Caiaphas (kinda high sounding), and consulted that they might take Jesus by subtlety, and kill him.
Summia Rahmaan
love to face challenges
Don't fight, I said and saying again and again:
Bible states, "Yahweh" or "Eli" or "Jesus (according to Will be)". Who will nominate which is Holy one?
Saying again:
Bible states, "Yahweh" or "Eli" or "Jesus (according to Will be)". Who will nominate which is Holy one?
Saying again:
holysmoke
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It is the nature of Abraham monotheists to fight other belief systems wherever they encounter them. You see, the thing that neither "Moses" or Muhammad understood is that the human mind is incapable of comprehending one of anything without referencing the one thing to something else. This is the way our brains work. In order to see or comprehend stimuli the brain needs to contrast whatever is in focus with something else. "One" doesn't exist in our comprehension without "two" or more to contrast one with. We can fantasize about a great Singularity we call God as a "Oneness" which is a useful way of understanding God but it is still remains that this "One" has no real meaning for us with contrasting It to two or more.
Another way to see this is to think about how Abrahamics call God, "Father" and yet still claim God is One. Now "Father" has no meaning for us without contrasting "father" with "mother". Where is Mother in the One? Why isn't She acknowledged? Because small human mindedness tinged with territorial control issues wants to push "Father" as One into all Abrahamic believers minds despite the fact it makes no logical sense except as a reason to go to war against those who don't accept the Abrahamic illogical position.
Abrahamic monotheism is code for territorial warfare, not a spiritual truth because those who know spiritual truth know it can only be "contained" as a fluid state with no black and white divisions possible, including life and death. It's all colors of the rainbow spectrum and that includes our conceptualizations of God by the many sets of religious believers throughout history.
Although a confirmed Christian, like many non-Abrahamic believers, like the ancient Hebrews before the Sinai revelation, I too think of the Godhead as an "Us", a "We", a Holy Family, a Divine Assembly, i.e. acknowledging God as a Oneness composed of more than one entity. And I am comfortable with this as it doesn't bother me that I cannot go further in establishing God's identity. I am a "pluriform monotheist" and worship God as a Holy Family whose Father face shown to humankind was that of EL Elyon, God Most High, but since the arrival of Jesus into heaven is now that of Jesus Christ with EL retiring to role of Grandfather Above (the name (in English) that God goes by in the Native American tribe I worked for, btw..).
As a Gnostic Christian I too hold a high place in the Godhead for the Great Feminine aspect of God, the Goddess although for me, the Gnostic worship of Sophia doesn't ring true. I believe the Goddess must have far more earthly power than the ethereal Sophia so I see Asherah as the fitting Mother face of the Godhead. Filling out the restoration of the Holy Family, as a spiritual visionary I forsee the 2nd Coming arrival of the Spirit of Christ as the Daughter of God for I have seen Her in spiritual vision and so have others, my daughter for one.
This is, of course, my personal pantheon, the luxury of us Gnostic believers who rely on no one else save the Spirit of Christ for our spiritual authority, and no one else need see the Godhead the way I do although I do believe it would surely help break the Abrahamic history of religious intolerance that is still going strong today. If Abrahamic monotheists were honest with themselves, they ponder the question of how their spiritual authorities who claim God is beyond anything humanly imaginable and therefore incomprehensible still claim to know that "God is One" and claim it with such angry certitude they are willing to kill others who don't subscribe to their ignorance of logic and, well, God, by any name.
Summia Rahmaan
love to face challenges
It's good to know about your faith dear fellow. I heard this first time about pluriform monothiest. How is it differ from Christainity?
So, if you have to choose one holy name of God, to whom will you nominate from One Holy family?
One more thing making me uncomfortable, why does God need contrast?
It's human understandings that family works in unity in common, but sometimes clashes. How will you define impact of clashes in God's family on the real world?( in case, if I rightly guessed your faith i.e. pluriform monothiesm)
holysmoke
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My Christian faith differs from traditional or Pauline Christianity radically in that I follow the teachings of Jesus and not those of Paul. To the world Christianity means Christians who believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins because human beings are fallen creatures needing salvation by vicarious sin atonement which is Paul's gospel and not Jesus' teachings. Paul succeeded in taking the lead in Christian doctrines because I believe Paul's theology was compatible with the standard Greco-Roman world's Mystery Religions.
Paul's genius was melding the Mystery Religion idea of a dying/resurrection god-man who's death atones for sins of believers with the Jewish Messiah expectations. Jesus Christ in Paul's theology became very similar to Mithraism only where Mithra believers baptized themselves in a pool of bull's blood (Mithra's totem animal) to vicariously identify with Mithra's death and resurrection, Christian believers were to baptize themselves in water and vicariously identify with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Mithra and Jesus Christ share a great deal of attributes in common and they both are members of the sun-god/grain god dying/resurrection mythologies that were wide spread in the ancient world following as they do the pattern of Nature and crops dying in Winter and reviving in the Spring.
Pauline Christians have either a Dualist (Father/Son) or Trinity (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) polytheistic division of the Godhead although they seldom admit it because they want to think of Christianity as Paul's gospel says, as a "branch off the vine of Judaism" which, like Islam, doesn't tolerate division of the Godhead. I refuse to be hypocritical about Christian belief that Jesus Christ represented the Son of God, thereby creating a division in the Godhead. As I explained before, I believe the human mind cannot comprehend "Oneness" without contrasting oneness to two-ness or the many. They are conceptually forever united meaning for me that saying "God is One" is logically meaningless in our universe--we can't recognize such a Singularity in our brains so why be intolerant of our mental deficiency when it is expressed religiously? Do you know that most of the ancient pagan religions evolving in pagan civilizations like Greece were well on their way to seeing a superior spiritual reality to their pantheons of gods and goddesses, e.g. the Atman concept of the Hindus and the Logos concept of the Greeks, a Oneness then that was composed of emanating sub-gods that really symbolized various natural phenomena or aspects of personality. In other words, the ancients labeled what we call for example, "luck", a goddess of luck like Fortuna. Sun gods, moon gods, happiness gods, war gods, etc, etc..all derivatives of a spiritual model based on our human lives. The various pantheons were Holy Families, models in the spiritual realm for human behavior and natural phenomena.
Along comes Akhkenaton with the world's first intolerant monotheism and we get religious warfare between monotheists and polytheists. Moses followed Akhkenaton's monotheistic intolerance and so did Muhammad but not the Christians who had no choice in their theology based on Jesus Christ but to recognize a spiritual division of the Godhead into two identities, Father and Son. The Catholics threw in the Holy Spirit to cover their bases as well as umpteen number of saints, many of whom were makeovers of pagan gods and goddesses, e.g. St. Bridgit.
My Christian belief system recognizes the limitations of the human mind that brings spiritual information to our cultures via prophets and founders of religions. I fully believe in the Oneness of God but recognize that it is impossible to describe that Oneness because I've never seen it and cannot comprehend what I can't really understand. The Oneness of God has conveniently provided human beings with ways to comprehend Itself by using Family divisions human beings are familiar with, father, mother, son, daughter.
The Abrahamic believers to me falsely claim "God is One" and are at war spiritually and materially with all other believers in God who see God as one or more of God's emanations. Abrahamic's see God as "Father" and yet they too show their tendency towards dividing the Godhead in order to comprehend it, thus in the Old Testament Creation accounts God is referred to as "Us" and in the Quran God is "We", i.e. muliple faces of the Godhead. I've heard Muslim apologists claim the "We" in the Quran is Muhammad using the "Royal "We" but personally, to me this rings false. I really do not understand why Abrahamic believers convinced themselves pagan believers were somehow evil by worshipping aspects or faces of the Godhead. Evil was never in the ways of worship of God but in human behavior towards others. This pattern of Abrahamic religions to create a false division in believers of God between those who define the Godhead as "Father" vs. those who define the Godhead as various forms of "We" to me is symptomatic of a human territorial control agenda posing as "religion". God has absolutely no need of territorial control but ambitious men do so we get 2500 years of Abrahamic religious warfare for control of the earth's surface and human populations. A sin in my opinion..
So I am a "pluriform monotheist" who doesn't care a fig what people call God but cares a great deal about how human beings behave towards each other following their various religious paths.
Btw, you should understand that I am a Gnostic Christian and for us Gnostics having a personal relationship with God is the only authentic one possible. We cannot bow down to any other man's belief system but our own because anytime you depend on another human being for your spiritual consciousness you have lost spiritual authenticity by accepting a second-hand relationship with God. In other words, neither Moses, or Paul or Muhammad or the Bab or Joseph Smith is you so they cannot form your relationship with God unless you are willing to let them do your spiritual heavy lifting instead of you doing it yourself. This is the Gnostic Way, the Solitary Path as it is called.
As for clashes in every family mirroring clashes in the Holy Family, sure, the ancients have all sorts of stories of gods and goddesses at each other's throats and doing dirty tricks, just like human beings!
Would be a problem except we have been given a holy model of overcoming everything through love, the model of the Christ. Christ consciousness cuts through divisions between human beings as people come to understand "Christ consciousness" is really only a code name for goodness following our consciences.
M
mee
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Dont listen to only half of it ,listen to all that Jesus said , love God with all your heart. thats what the true God JEHOVAH said to do, LISTEN TO HIS SON as LUKE 9;35 informs us
LISTEN TO JESUS
And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him LUKE 9;35
That voice was Jehovahs voice, and he was saying that Jesus was his son . THE CHOSEN ONE
thats what the true God JEHOVAH said to do, LISTEN TO HIS SON as LUKE 9;35 informs us
LISTEN TO JESUS
And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him LUKE 9;35
That voice was Jehovahs voice, and he was saying that Jesus was his son . THE CHOSEN ONE
Jesus is not dead, only transfigured. But the scars are still there, if you have eyes to see them. And the voice still calms the angry waters, if you have ears to hear. Jesus is as close as the nose on your face, the ears on your head, and the skin on your bones. Jesus is alive, in your thoughts, in each and every moment.
Want some coffee? Or, want Jesus? Jesus exists in every place, even where there is no desire.
M
mee
Guest
Jesus is a warrior king , with great aurthority , and he has been given rulership dignity and kingdom DANIEL 7;13-14
Rev. 22:13, (taken out of context of course, but...) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last.
So John saw a God, in the eternal seed which begins and ends everything, every life, every day, every thought of contention.
Unity with God takes away the separation, which in reality never exists, has not existed as the beginning or ending, or can exist with a beginning and ending once concepts and words end. Here God extends beyond us, time, human realms, into every living thing, every matter containing God, but without the sound of anything but an echo which calls us into existence.
Ok sorry, I'm gettin' vague.
Summia Rahmaan
love to face challenges
Thanks for detailed answer, I got lot of information about your faith and your faith is complicated to me. In reading this, I was just thinking, “how could you believe that? Who did feed such theories in you?”
I believe in “proves”, Quran states “Bring proves of ye are truthful”, here:
“Say: Bring your proofs, if ye are truthful”
And I wonder, how people could believe without proves? Aren’t they taking risk with their souls?
On thing amazing in your details dear fellow, God has contrast or a family. When I was child, my mother used to tell me fairy tale, starting, “There was a princess and when she smiles flowers come out form her mouth, she used to laugh every time and makes buds to sell it in morning. For evening she used to weep coz crystals fall down when she weeps, that’s how she used to make both ends meet” and I used to stare at my mother face for how? “Actually, my daughter I want you to sleep now”, she used to say. My little mind thought that she would really exist somewhere but now I can say confidently that was fake feeds to my mind that was just a story.
anyways! Everyone has freewill to believe at all…
But one thing, it is very good i.e.
So, you follow the Red lettered Bible, am I right?
I wish to clarify considering “We” and “Us” in Quran, whatever OT tells about so I’m not concerned. It’s true that “We” in Quran refers to Single God is the “Royal” term because Quran is clear about One God, if it is using “We” referring as One God that means in Royal sense. May be this confusion is just taking “We” from the whole Scripture.
Hm, that’s why I said, “Don’t fight!” although Islam tells about “Allah” the Holy Name of God. I do favor for unity, people fight for Name of God, very bad! Salvation is to believe in God exists, Name comes latter.
I asked you about impact of those Holy clashes in our world? As you believe in Human common understandings so think it is not imaginable to human mind that a family is LIVING without clashes. If God would say sun to rise from east, wife will say sun not to rise. And we see, the world is in its uniform pattern tells just one God exists without family. Where is a family, there is clashes. Isn’t so?
I believe in “proves”, Quran states “Bring proves of ye are truthful”, here:
“Say: Bring your proofs, if ye are truthful”
And I wonder, how people could believe without proves? Aren’t they taking risk with their souls?
On thing amazing in your details dear fellow, God has contrast or a family. When I was child, my mother used to tell me fairy tale, starting, “There was a princess and when she smiles flowers come out form her mouth, she used to laugh every time and makes buds to sell it in morning. For evening she used to weep coz crystals fall down when she weeps, that’s how she used to make both ends meet”
and I used to stare at my mother face for how? “Actually, my daughter I want you to sleep now”, she used to say. My little mind thought that she would really exist somewhere but now I can say confidently that was fake feeds to my mind that was just a story.anyways! Everyone has freewill to believe at all…
But one thing, it is very good i.e.
So, you follow the Red lettered Bible, am I right?
I wish to clarify considering “We” and “Us” in Quran, whatever OT tells about so I’m not concerned. It’s true that “We” in Quran refers to Single God is the “Royal” term because Quran is clear about One God, if it is using “We” referring as One God that means in Royal sense. May be this confusion is just taking “We” from the whole Scripture.
Hm, that’s why I said, “Don’t fight!” although Islam tells about “Allah” the Holy Name of God. I do favor for unity, people fight for Name of God, very bad! Salvation is to believe in God exists, Name comes latter.
I asked you about impact of those Holy clashes in our world? As you believe in Human common understandings so think it is not imaginable to human mind that a family is LIVING without clashes. If God would say sun to rise from east, wife will say sun not to rise. And we see, the world is in its uniform pattern tells just one God exists without family. Where is a family, there is clashes. Isn’t so?
holysmoke
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"I asked you about impact of those Holy clashes in our world? As you believe in Human common understandings so think it is not imaginable to human mind that a family is LIVING without clashes. If God would say sun to rise from east, wife will say sun not to rise. And we see, the world is in its uniform pattern tells just one God exists without family. Where is a family, there is clashes. Isn’t so?"
Where there are strict monotheistic believers has there been more peace? I think not, not if you look at the historical record without religious blinders on. I believe many human families are dysfunctional because there is no longer any heavenly family model, there is only Father and fathers do not know how to be mothers which hold the family structure together. God is restoring the Holy Family and that is why many indigenous religions are not dying away in the face of Abrahamic invasion but have resurrected themselves to give spiritual meaning to the peoples to whom these native religions belong. At least this is happening in America which tried its best to wipe out native religions and replace them with Christianity.
Strict monotheism of the Abrahamic kind is not spiritually correct because without Mother, without Son and Daughter, God the Father tends to act like a psychopathic monomaniac who is the enemy of peace and harmony by modeling behavior that is completely intolerant of human differences.
Where there are strict monotheistic believers has there been more peace? I think not, not if you look at the historical record without religious blinders on. I believe many human families are dysfunctional because there is no longer any heavenly family model, there is only Father and fathers do not know how to be mothers which hold the family structure together. God is restoring the Holy Family and that is why many indigenous religions are not dying away in the face of Abrahamic invasion but have resurrected themselves to give spiritual meaning to the peoples to whom these native religions belong. At least this is happening in America which tried its best to wipe out native religions and replace them with Christianity.
Strict monotheism of the Abrahamic kind is not spiritually correct because without Mother, without Son and Daughter, God the Father tends to act like a psychopathic monomaniac who is the enemy of peace and harmony by modeling behavior that is completely intolerant of human differences.
Summia Rahmaan
love to face challenges
What is your source of Knowledge? Or you just believeing in stories like my mother used to tell me to make me just to sleep...