The Joy of Freedom

Does God and religion give solace or fear?

  • A Vindictive Killer God with Hell can only cause ultimate fear

    Votes: 4 100.0%
  • I don't fear a cruel killer God because I submit to him.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I fear any Abrahamic Gods, if I picked the wrong one, I am screwed.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I believe God is really a kindly Creator. The Bible is false

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Amergin

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The Joy of Freedom


When I became convinced
that the Universe is natural,
that all the ghosts and gods are myths,
there entered into my brain, into my soul,
into every drop of my blood, the sense,
the feeling, the joy of Freedom.

The walls of my prison crumbled and fell.
The dungeon was flooded with light
and all the bolts, bars
and manacles became dust.
I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave.
There was for me no master in all of the wide world,
not even in the infinite space. I was free.

Free to think, to express my thoughts,
Free to live to my own ideal,
Free to live for myself and those I loved,
Free to use my faculties, all my senses,
Free to spread imagination's wings,
Free to investigate, to guess and dream, and hope;
Free to judge and determine for myself,
Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds,
all the "inspired" books
that savages have produced,
and all the barbarous legends of the past.

Free from popes and priests,
Free from all the "called" and the "set apart,"
Free from the sanctified mistakes and holy lies,
Free from the fear of eternal pain,
Free from the winged monsters of the night,
Free from devils, ghosts and gods.

For the first time I was free.
There were no prohibited places
in all the realms of my thought:
no air, no space,
where fancy could not spread her painted wings.
No chains for my limbs,
No lashes for my back,
No fires for my flesh,
No master's frown or threat,
No following another's steps;
No need to bow, or cringe, or crawl,
or utter lying words.

I was free.
I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously,
faced all worlds;
And my heart was filled with gratitude,
with thankfulness, and went out in love
To all the heroes
and the thinkers who gave their lives
for the Liberty of hand and brain,
for the freedom of labor and thought;
To those who fell on the fierce fields of war,
To those who died in the dungeons with chains,
To those who proudly mounted scaffold's stairs,
To those whose bones were crushed,
whose flesh was scarred and torn,
To those by fire consumed;
To all the wise, the good, the brave of every land,
whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom
to the sons and daughters of men and women.

And I vowed to grasp the torch that they held,
and hold it high,
that light might conquer darkness still.

--Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899)
 
"The free bird leaps
on the back of the wind
and floats downstream
till the current ends
and dips his wings
in the orange sun rays
and dares to claim the sky.

But a bird that stalks
down his narrow cage
can seldom see through
his bars of rage
his wings are clipped and
his feet are tied
so he opens his throat to sing.

The caged bird sings
with fearful trill
of the things unknown
but longed for still
and his tune is heard
on the distant hill for the caged bird
sings of freedom

The free bird thinks of another breeze
and the trade winds soft through the sighing trees
and the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright lawn
and he names the sky his own.

But a caged bird stands on the grave of dreams
his shadow shouts on a nightmare scream
his wings are clipped and his feet are tied
so he opens his throat to sing

The caged bird sings
with a fearful trill
of things unknown
but longed for still
and his tune is heard
on the distant hill
for the caged bird
sings of freedom"
.
 
Where is "none of the above"? :D

Your vision of God and religion seems bound to the Abrahamic traditions.

As I am not Abrahamic, all the options are sort of irrelevant.

Further, I do not think God(s) or religion have their highest calling in solace or fear.
 
I'll sing along with Amergin.

Not so hot on the poll choices however.
 
I have experienced that feeling Amergin, although I don't blame Abraham or God for what certain pastors have done. I would love to blame somebody, but the truth is that we are very lucky to have had Abraham and God in our society, and I'll explain why I think so. I will venture to guess that in your case, somebody tried to use God to enslave you but if not for God they would have tried to use something else that was more effective. Here is my reconstruction of how Abraham became the tool the Romans chose: The Romans developed over centuries the technology of Slavery & Oppression, bringing it to new levels of effectiveness. It was their greatest achievement, and they were proud of it. When faced with Abraham their slavers were daunted -- not in body but in heart. Their dream of an eternal Rome was itself threatened. So they tried to adopt Abe, their obstacle, and to make him a tool of enslavement, but it was like taming wildcats. Thinking to make Abe their slave they thought this would be their greatest triumph and the new proof of the power of Rome, their eternal Rome. They believed truth could be manufactured (see Livey's introduction). In fact what happened is over the centuries Abraham's freedom leaked and overpowered Rome and began to dissolve its slavery, and you and I are some of the creatures that have escaped as the lie of slavery began to be exposed and destroyed. We are partially Roman but mostly not, and our minds are more free than many and certainly more free than if Rome had not swallowed Abe. I think of it as a shark that swallowed a blow-fish and was changed into food. Rome failed to live forever on its foundation of enslaving others. What you are associating with slavery actually worked to make it possible for you to escape slavery, while itself was caged like a slave for a while.

There are many examples of how Abraham fought within Christianity against slavery. Most recently there is the example of William Wilberforce, but there are many others as well. I'm glad that you are free, and I hope that you will arm yourself for freedom. Abraham is actually a great subject to study to help you with that, and you've certainly got the zeal for it.
 
I read the scriptures in a more allegorical fashion as opposed to literal, yet by the timeline in it Abraham was long dead when the Romans came around.
The Egyptians were his contemporaries.
 
I read the scriptures in a more allegorical fashion as opposed to literal, yet by the timeline in it Abraham was long dead when the Romans came around.
The Egyptians were his contemporaries.
True he was gone and still is. I did not mean to imply that Abraham was currently actively doing anything; but Abraham is still active in the meaning that he is still having an effect as if he were alive. He may not know it, and for all I know it may not be him alone. I'm just talking about 'The packaged Abraham' which is all of the things attributed to Abraham, Moses, perhaps David etc. If dead Abraham is a legend still, and the legend includes many ideas that oppose slavery and which daunted the Romans politically. Abraham under various names opposed slavery and undermined Rome. This, I think, is what prompted the Romans to try and engulf Abraham and to steal his power and try make it serve Rome, (which was a marvelous empire albeit directly founded upon the presumed necessity of slavery). They tried ignoring Abraham, then when that failed they tried using him.
 
My intense hatred of Anthropomorphic stems from whom they were copied. Anthropomorphic gods are gods imagined and designed from human personalities. We admit that humans are full of positive, negative, and absolutely blood thirsty nutters.

I do not feel hostile to those who believe in the deities of Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, Celtic Paganism, Neo-Paganism, or Deisn/Unitarianism. However Anthroporphic or humanoid gods inevitable display the worst traits of human beings. Man created God (Anthroporphic humanoid) gods in his own image: capricious, ambivalent, regretful, vindictive, homicidal, cruel, indifferent to the deaths of millions of humans and trillions of non-human animals. JHWY, Allah, and Trinity are saturated with evil human traits. Almost all religious wars were started by believers in those three dreadfully evil imaginary god founded on fierce, and violent tribal War Lords of the Neolithic and Early Bronze Age. I unequivically oppose the Abrahamic Gods as the epitome of imagined evil.

Satan doesn't kill anybody. He gets the label evil but his only crime was teaching humans how to think critically. God ordered humans to avoid learning, and never ask questions.

I could be content with god who are entirely non-human, something other then matter or bonded energy particles. This god could be the force, extradimensional, that ignites the Big Bang. I do not think such a god is a conscious, cognitive being (i.e. an animal.)

I think Ingersoll's poem was an encouragement to abandon the evil gods who have endlessly punished humans for all kinds of flimsy excuses like seeking knowledge. Theories of the Big Bang were after Ingersoll's time. He only condemned the evil gods that we already knew and whose followers waged bloody wars against free thinkers.

I am hopeful that the evil religion of Christians is dying a slow death and the rest have moderated (Liberal). Only the mentally impared (rationally challenged and ignorant) still follow the angry killer gods of Abraham. Islam is still spreading its evil over the world and we can only hope that it burns out its hate driven power and begins to reform. We would be better off, and society more compassionate and responsible when all Abrahamic Cults die out. I won't live to see it.

Death of the Gods means freedom, knowledge, and peace to humanity.

Joke: Just in case I am wrong, I want my .44 magnum buried with me. If I arise on Judgement Day I might just get a couple of mortal shots at the Cosmic Tyrant before I land in Hell.:)

Rise up and overthrow the imaginary tyrant, and that is not armed revolution but teaching children that science better explains the universe than superstition and mythological humanoid gods.

Down with Gods, Up with Freedom and Justice.

Amergin
 
UHM... Biased much? lol give me a break.... "freedom" lol yeah right.

So either god is evil, false, evil.... Or is islamic? Yeah that sounds about right......

I choose an extra option,

If there is a divine creator out there.. It does not threat over petty things such as human factions..
 
You want to weaken the bloodthirsty anthropomorphic God, so it should help to know its a fake wrap around Abraham in the first place. The bloodthirst you speak of is definitely politically sourced. Take a pencil which was mis-used for stabbing people & creating ignorance, but pencils are not evil nor is writing evil. Pencils are implements of peace. If someone tried to use them to create ignorance, then take the pencils and use them again for writing. They make terrible knives, and banning pencils isn't the answer. That will just further ignorance. Its like tomatoes, which at one time were wrongly reputed to turn people into werewolves. The right solution was not to burn the tomato plants but to explain about tomatoes. Similarly, Abraham does not actually have a 'God' in the sense that you are saying, so that is what people need to understand. No, I'm not making it up. It was packaged that way for political aims and caused a lot of problems that way, but its the part of it that Rome hated most was unthwarted and resulted in you breaking free.
 
You want to weaken the bloodthirsty anthropomorphic God, so it should help to know its a fake wrap around Abraham in the first place.

We do not know if Abraham was a real person or if he invented the Jewish God, JHWY. He may have been one of the several tribal leaders of the Amorites migrating across the Fertile Crescent. Moses is the more likely creator of God/JHWY. Moses possibly invented Abraham, as well as Adam and Eve, the legendary first Jews.

My ancestors would have been contemporaries (not ancestors of Adam and Eve building stone monuments and a stone city at Skara Brae. People were cultivating the Nile River Valley (not descendants of the Jewish Adam and Eve.)

The bloodthirst you speak of is definitely politically sourced. Take a pencil which was mis-used for stabbing people & creating ignorance, but pencils are not evil nor is writing evil. Pencils are implements of peace. If someone tried to use them to create ignorance, then take the pencils and use them again for writing. They make terrible knives, and banning pencils isn't the answer. That will just further ignorance.

I understand. God is imaginary. We invented God for two reasons. One, was to give mythological explanations for the mysteries of nature millennia before science. The second was to design Gods for political purposes. That is why God has the personal characteristics of a Stone Age and Early Bronze Age tribal war lord. A War Lord could not be a pansy. He had to be frightful to make people obey his orders. He punished his rivals with cruel deaths and even killed political opposition. It seems quite clear that War Lords redesigned the rather ill-defined Nature Gods. They made scary gods. The Jews made their god as scary as possible.

JHWY is all powerful, narcissistic, capricious, vindictive, demanding worship, punishing unbelief or dissent. JHWY's fictional legend is one having murdered all of the people on Earth by an impossible flood. He supposedly kills all men, women, children, babies, and pregnant women as well as a million million non-human animals because some adult humans sinned. He commanded his Israelite soldiers to slaughter men, women, children, and babies while saving young girls (for sport?) He murders all of the people including babies in Sodom and Gomorrah by making a huge volcanic rift eruption with a huge lava flow (fire and brimstone). Of course the cities sat on the Jordan-Dead Sea Tectonic Plate boundaries as Africa collides with Arabia squeezing the small Sinai plate.

Deadseariftfault-1.gif


TectonicPlates-1.jpg


It was packaged that way for political aims and caused a lot of problems that way, but its the part of it that Rome hated most was unthwarted and resulted in you breaking free.

The Enlightement that followed the Renaissance was the beginning of the Age of Thinking. Real rational thinking cannot ultimately co-exist with irrational magical thinking. Reason would suggest the eventual death of the Anthropomorphic Gods. The freedom I wish for all people is to rid them of the fear of tyrants, at least the imaginary tyrants.

Amergin
 
Amergin said:
I do not feel hostile to those who believe in the deities of Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, Celtic Paganism, Neo-Paganism, or Deisn/Unitarianism. However Anthroporphic or humanoid gods inevitable display the worst traits of human beings. Man created God (Anthroporphic humanoid) gods in his own image: capricious, ambivalent, regretful, vindictive, homicidal, cruel, indifferent to the deaths of millions of humans and trillions of non-human animals. JHWY
Understand what you're saying, however I'm still not convinced.

...The second was to design Gods for political purposes. That is why God has the personal characteristics of a Stone Age and Early Bronze Age tribal war lord...
You share that sentiment in common with a lot of other people that come through here. I can appreciate the ideas you've got.

...A War Lord could not be a pansy. He had to be frightful to make people obey his orders. He punished his rivals with cruel deaths and even killed political opposition....
JWHY is very much a pansy by your definition. Two nations Ninevites and Philistines as examples: Jweh does not, for example, destroy Ninevah (Syria) despite its constant anti-Israel activity. His strength is not really in physical war but in the beautiful law which eventually wins the Ninevites over, culminating with the preaching of Jonah. In the story of Sampson, even though Samson has super strength and could easily sped his days killing Philistines (Palestinians), he instead spends them as a public defender between the weak and the strong including between natives and Philistines. His goal is not to destroy enemies but to bring Israel back into line. His exploits against the Philistine governors are famous but nevertheless only incidental to his real occupation. Whenever there is a recorded conflict the Bible stories always say the only reason for Israel ever to have trouble is that they stop upholding good principles, and this is the reason given for the invasion by the Philistines at all. The implication is that once Israel turns back to doing things the right way, the Philistines are no longer enemies but trading partners. Going back further to the conquering of Caanan, every Caananite tribe that gets conquered is conquered not by human beings with weapons but by the influence of JWHY and victory specifically depends upon the behavior of the Israelis.

You have said repeatedly that God is man's invention. Does this really sound like a bloodthirsty one to you? This god's actions always predicated upon the good behavior of Israelis, and I do not see a warlord focused upon conquering and wiping out enemies but an advisor telling Israelis to uphold the standards they've been taught as children. So they have lots of stories to illustrate this, but it does not therefore mean that God is about conquering new territory or propping up dynasties. Actually, dynasties and warlords are seen as an evil thing that in turn bring trouble on Israelis; and fighting is discouraged.
 
crap poll options,

freedom in Christ all the way :)

How does Christianity bring freedom? It demands your submission just as in Islam. Freedom in Christ is Orwellian Double Speak. Submission is freedom. Peace is war.

I do not believe in any gods. I live in greater freedom than you. You are a slave to an idol who lived 2000 years ago. You are enslaved to adhere to a dogma (the one your Pastor orders for you.) You have a commandment forbidding you from changing religion to another God. You have a commandment ordering you to pay homage to your God every Sunday or Friday, or Saturday depending on which Christian cult controls you.

My morality is based on intuitive morality based on 7 million years of social and intellectual evolution.

I do not kill anyone because I know it is intuitively wrong.

You do not kill only because your God forbids you. If God commands killing you kill (Crusades, Abortionist murders, Gay people, burning women to death for witchcraft, beheading of heretics, Tim McVeigh blowing up the Federal Bldg in OKC with a Bible on his truck seat, and the African Slave Trade.) WOW.

UK, and USA Atheists opposed African Slavery from the beginning. Southern Baptists formed for the purpose of defending slavery, and later segregation. All of those pro-slavery, and Jim Crow Christians found their freedom in Jesus.

You may well find solace in Jesus, but you cede your freedom to Jesus.

Amergin
 
How does Christianity bring freedom? It demands your submission just as in Islam. Freedom in Christ is Orwellian Double Speak. Submission is freedom. Peace is war.

Freedom in Christ is akin to finding freedom from self. Christianity does not demand submission to anything that would make a person a slave, but to be a Christian we do need a willful devotion to a higher force. When we devote our lives to this higher force, we are freed from our selfish and self serving ways.

To you this means being enslaved, but this is not the case. A person can serve self, remaining a slave to our selfish and self serving ways or a person can devote their lives to something greater than self, whereby true freedom is realized.

If you have not experienced this type of freedom, then you couldn't possibly know of what I speak. When a person devotes their life to this higher force, they come to realize that ones self is the only thing standing between being a slave and true freedom.

To be be saved is to find liberty (Freedom) from the many negatives that plague mankind. Negatives such as worry, anger, hate, bitterness, envy, jealousy, lust, pride, doubt, unforgiveness, fear, and a host of other negatives that steal our peace.

All of these negatives stem from a selfish and self serving heart. Once a man lets go of his selfish ways, he not only improves his own well being, but he also becomes a blessing to others.

There is no need to believe in a God that demands worship, but we do need to believe and have faith in love and then allow this Spirit to guide us in life. Love is like a compass. If a person would only trust in its ways, they would come to know God, and freedom, and inner peace.

Christ came to show us a better way. He did so, so we might have life and have it in abundance. Love is that better way. Mans wisdom will tell you that love is weak and that a person needs to do for self before he does for others. Mans wisdom tells you that by living through love that others will take advantage of you for being weak. Mans wisdom will make a person hard and bitter, but Gods wisdom (Love) can soften even the hardest mans heart.

Christianity isn't about worship in the sense that many view worship, but it is rather about having a loving respect for all living things, whereby the creator of all living things is honored, and we are blessed.

I do not believe in any gods. I live in greater freedom than you. You are a slave to an idol who lived 2000 years ago. You are enslaved to adhere to a dogma (the one your Pastor orders for you.) You have a commandment forbidding you from changing religion to another God. You have a commandment ordering you to pay homage to your God every Sunday or Friday, or Saturday depending on which Christian cult controls you.
I work hard and I play harder. My preferred day of rest is sunday. I don't honor this day because I am told, but because I know it is needed to keep me from wearing myself too thin. I am a slave to nothing, but I do honor and do my best to devote my life to love, allowing this Spirit to guide my steps, knowing that by doing so I not only reap the rewards, but others do also.

Anyone who puts their faith in a pastor and not God (Who is love) is insane. Religion is man made, whereas the truth that Jesus represented is the only thing in life that can actually fill a mans heart, giving him inner peace, freeing him from calamity (Negatives/evil).
My morality is based on intuitive morality based on 7 million years of social and intellectual evolution.

I do not kill anyone because I know it is intuitively wrong.

You do not kill only because your God forbids you. If God commands killing you kill (Crusades, Abortionist murders, Gay people, burning women to death for witchcraft, beheading of heretics, Tim McVeigh blowing up the Federal Bldg in OKC with a Bible on his truck seat, and the African Slave Trade.) WOW.
Good grief! Forgive me for being frank, but if you think this is what makes up a typical Christian, you are not only a damn fool, but also a very shallow and narrow minded bigot.

UK, and USA Atheists opposed African Slavery from the beginning. Southern Baptists formed for the purpose of defending slavery, and later segregation. All of those pro-slavery, and Jim Crow Christians found their freedom in Jesus.
The Christian message is love. those who support slavery completely missed the crux of His ministry.

You may well find solace in Jesus, but you cede your freedom to Jesus.

Amergin
I found my freedom in His way, in the truth he represented, and in the life I found by living through the same Spirit he lived through. I yeild my freedom to no one, but I do my best to give up my selfish and self serving ways, so that I might have an abundant life through love.

Btw, when I am able to tame self and live through love, I have absolutely no complaints. It is only when I serve self that I find myself lacking, and enslaved. God is love - To love is freedom.

GK
 
I do not feel hostile to those who believe in the deities of Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, Celtic Paganism, Neo-Paganism, or Deisn/Unitarianism. However Anthroporphic or humanoid gods inevitable display the worst traits of human beings.

Anthropomorphic gods can be good and benign. It is their human-like traits that allow us to imagine what it would be like to make friends with them.

But aren't the former often humanoid and anthropomorphic?

God ordered humans to avoid learning, and never ask questions.

The Abrahamic God did no such thing. Avoid learning? Never ask questions? This is more likely to be a description that matches religious fundamentalists than one that matches the God described in the Tanakh and New Testament.

We would be better off, and society more compassionate and responsible when all Abrahamic Cults die out. I won't live to see it. Death of the Gods means freedom, knowledge, and peace to humanity.

We already have freedom, democracy and secularism. Religion has not stood in its way. The Abrahamic faiths are quite happy to stand at the periphery and do their private business. Islam has often been loud and shown an aggressive side, but maybe it's the more quiet and passive Muslims that we tend not to notice.

Joke: Just in case I am wrong, I want my .44 magnum buried with me. If I arise on Judgement Day I might just get a couple of mortal shots at the Cosmic Tyrant before I land in Hell.:)

If you are not in the business of persecuting and oppressing people, you should have little to fear from God. -- unless you get rich, in which case God would appreciate you sharing your wealth with others.

It demands your submission just as in Islam. Freedom in Christ is Orwellian Double Speak. Submission is freedom.

Christians are not Muslims. Christianity is not Islam. Islam actually means submission. Christianity does not. The term "Christian" actually refers to a person who lives like or considers himself to be "a little Christ." Christianity was more like a subculture that rebelled against the rest of society, like the emo, goth, punk and hippy of the last century.

It doesn't demand any submission. Choosing to be a "little Christ" is simply considered more rational because the alternative leads to a socio-economic dystopia.

Peace is war.

What? Where did you get that from? How can peace be war?:eek:

I do not kill anyone because I know it is intuitively wrong. You do not kill only because your God forbids you.

I do not kill because I do not want to violate the humanity in another person. Killing another person is killing myself.

If God commands killing you kill (Crusades, Abortionist murders, Gay people, burning women to death for witchcraft, beheading of heretics, Tim McVeigh blowing up the Federal Bldg in OKC with a Bible on his truck seat, and the African Slave Trade.) WOW.

This stuff happened more than 1,000 years later. It was not the behaviour of the first century Christians. Quite obviously, someone forgot what being a Christian was about despite having the written tradition right in front of them.

UK, and USA Atheists opposed African Slavery from the beginning. Southern Baptists formed for the purpose of defending slavery, and later segregation. All of those pro-slavery, and Jim Crow Christians found their freedom in Jesus.

You may well find solace in Jesus, but you cede your freedom to Jesus.

It's more likely that people forgot who Jesus was. They had a book in front of them that told them what his life was about. For some reason, they believed that it meant promoting slavery and segregation. I just can't make the connection. To me it seemed to be more about being American than Jesus-like.

Yankee doodle went to town . . . riding on a pony . . .

. . . and turned Jesus into macaroni.:D

So is this what it means to be American? Americans like to twist and turn things upside down?
 
You may well find solace in Jesus, but you cede your freedom to Jesus.

It's more about becoming Jesus.

How does Christianity bring freedom? It demands your submission just as in Islam. Freedom in Christ is Orwellian Double Speak. Submission is freedom.

It's relative. It is said that "whoever tries to keep his life will lose it and whoever tries to lose his life will gain it." (Luke 17:33)

Getting rid of a tyrant may lead to freedom, but what about the case where there is no tyrant and you are still being enslaved? I have heard it said that true freedom comes not from dislodging the gun that someone is pointing at your head, but in being able to allow someone to kill you or destroy something important to you. It is the willingness to lose.

This is freedom because the person who points a gun at your head or threatens to destroy your treasure only has power over you for as long as your life or your treasure persists or continues to exist. Once your life or your treasure is destroyed, your enemy can no longer threaten you.

But you can take it one step further and say that your life or treasure isn't really that important. That dissolves the threat against you and sets you free.

Jesus allowed himself to be disgraced and humiliated because there was something far more important than his life or reputation: it was his contribution to society and humanity.

Jesus wasn't a slave. He found freedom in death and defiance. A Christian seeks the same.
 
Freedom in Christ is akin to finding freedom from self. Christianity does not demand submission to anything that would make a person a slave, but to be a Christian we do need a willful devotion to a higher force. When we devote our lives to this higher force, we are freed from our selfish and self serving ways.

To you this means being enslaved, but this is not the case. A person can serve self, remaining a slave to our selfish and self serving ways or a person can devote their lives to something greater than self, whereby true freedom is realized.

Actually I don't quite agree. I don't believe it is freedom from self. I can never deny my self. I cannot deny my own individuality, humanity or dignity. That is something I am not to lose in becoming more like Jesus. Jesus didn't lose his individuality, humanity or dignity, so why should I?

Jesus was in rebellion against the established social order, an environment and culture that led to oppression, persecution and injustice.

I am not a slave to selfishness, but the expectations of others. Actually, but recognising and appreciating my self, I can appreciate others. By knowing how to care about myself, I know how to care about other people. Selfishness is not evil. People have simply taken selfishness too far and that is what results in the evil we see in the world. Selfishness is not inherently evil or corrupt. Selfishness can corrupt, but it is absolute selfishness that completely corrupts a person.

All of these negatives stem from a selfish and self serving heart. Once a man lets go of his selfish ways, he not only improves his own well being, but he also becomes a blessing to others.

But you can't help others if you can't help yourself.:) You have to know yourself in order to know others because every other human being is a reflection of you.

Selfishness just needs to be less individualistic and more collectivistic. Individual selfishness is bad. Communal and collectivistic selfishness is good. Collectivistic selfishness that includes the entire human race is even better.

Jesus sacrificed his own life because he was aware of the needs of others. He could not have done that without knowing himself.
 
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