human nature - inherently good or evil?

seattlegal said:
The north wind blows with all its might and a person clutches their outer garment even more closely. The sun comes out and shines, and the person removes their outer garment of their own accord.
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This is why monks sit in monasteries for 50+ years and nothing ever happens... there is no urgency there. Buddha has attempted to create an urgency, tried to say that if you are reincarnated again you will again encounter this existence, will again become old, sick and die. Constantly he is saying that you must free yourself in this life, that there is no reason to wait at all.

In fact, much of why he is declared a nihilist is centered around his devices to create exactly this urgency. You see, to truly be ready, you must see utterly that this existence is pointless. Everything you do in the material world is irrelevant because it cannot come with you after death. Even whatsoever you assist your culture to accomplish, no society lasts that long and even if it did last this very existence is not permanent itself so eventually everything we accomplish will be irrelevant. This looks nihilistic, you have to be utterly aware of the futility of life, the futility in our current values and way of living, otherwise you will never go into the depths of religion. It is not nihilistic though, simply because what is encountered, what Buddha wishes to show you is the absolute highest experience a human can have. Nothing is more beautiful, more worthwhile, more ecstatic.
 
Lunitik said:
This is why monks sit in monasteries for 50+ years and nothing ever happens... there is no urgency there. Buddha has attempted to create an urgency, tried to say that if you are reincarnated again you will again encounter this existence, will again become old, sick and die. Constantly he is saying that you must free yourself in this life, that there is no reason to wait at all.
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Keywords highlighted in red above. Is the wind more compelling to make one drop your outer garment, or is the sun?
 
Lunitik said:
You limit God by saying it is only the unseen... it is simply that we do not acknowledge that nothing can be without That.

That said, it is equally interesting you say it is the unseen, because it is the unseen aspect that is the purpose of meditation - which you speak much against. It would be more helpful for you to see all outer things as God, watch closely how everything is interconnected, etc... these can show you much about God and the way he works.

Mostly I am saying this is very inconsistent... it makes it too easy for religion to not really be a major part of your life.
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Sure, you can watch a movie or read a book, and believe that you know the people by it. Similarly you can even meditate and think you know God, yourself, and everyone else from it. You can take all matter of drugs and obtain viewpoints that I have never even heard of, let alone experienced. I'm sorry, as you know there are no words that will make you understand, and your meditation is clearly not doing it for you either.
 
Good & Evil are Subjective, it is impossible to define either.
The point here is that within each of us rests both and 'we' along with our Shadow Self and Dæmon, battle between our perceived morals and ethics.
 
seattlegal said:
The north wind blows with all its might and a person clutches their outer garment even more closely. The sun comes out and shines, and the person removes their outer garment of their own accord.
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Sure a person can do that. Or, could a person be a light during the storms within their own relationshps? Bribes and punishments walk hand-in-hand for awhile.
 
luecy7 said:
Sure, you can watch a movie or read a book, and believe that you know the people by it. Similarly you can even meditate and think you know God, yourself, and everyone else from it. You can take all matter of drugs and obtain viewpoints that I have never even heard of, let alone experienced. I'm sorry, as you know there are no words that will make you understand, and your meditation is clearly not doing it for you either.
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Bible says God is within each of us, meditation is the art of finding that.
 
luecy7 said:
No. That North wind is not being truthful? :confused:

Not being truthful, punishment, and bribes have something in common. In your example the three also have something in common.
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No, in this example I gave to Lunitik, the wind is not being truthful, and is being forceful to boot. (see post #515)
 
seattlegal said:
No, in this example I gave to Lunitik, the wind is not being truthful, and is being forceful to boot. (see post #515)
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Yes. I understood that you see the attempt at manipulation by the wind. It seemed you did not see the manipulation by the sun, or by that person.

If the wind were not being truthful, then it would be silent. If the wind were to lie, then it would try to tell you that you feel blazing hot. Or, that you will be in hell if you don't take your coat off, as a fabrication.

What if the tree were to ask the person, "Would you take your coat off for me?" Different approach? What if the person were to ask the wind, "Are you wanting me to take my coat off and freeze in your presence?"
 
Lunitik said:
Bible says God is within each of us, meditation is the art of finding that.
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The bible is only an authority on the bible, nothing more. "WE" are within ourself, not a detached governing Being. We are our own god, through introspection we can find glimmers of this god/dæmon.
 
Etu Malku said:
The bible is only an authority on the bible, nothing more. "WE" are within ourself, not a detached governing Being. We are our own god, through introspection we can find glimmers of this god/dæmon.
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More than that. A person can interact with God: prayer, deeds, and to see words and deeds of God. You might not believe that, but I tell you honestly that it is true and possible.
 
luecy7 said:
Yes. I understood that you see the attempt at manipulation by the wind. It seemed you did not see the manipulation by the sun, or by that person.

If the wind were not being truthful, then it would be silent. If the wind were to lie, then it would try to tell you that you feel blazing hot. Or, that you will be in hell if you don't take your coat off, as a fabrication.

What if the tree were to ask the person, "Would you take your coat off for me?" Different approach? What if the person were to ask the wind, "Are you wanting me to take my coat off and freeze in your presence?"
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lol :p (10 character minimum)
 
luecy7 said:
More than that. A person can interact with God: prayer, deeds, and to see words and deeds of God. You might not believe that, but I tell you honestly that it is true and possible.
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Then show us how and why this is possible?
 
luecy7 said:
Why do you ask me? Do you think I am God? I am not the Lunitik who calls himself God. Maybe you could ask him? Or, maybe you should just ask God. :)
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You're the one claiming these impossible feats, explain how they are accomplished?

Ask God? I'd get the same answer everyone else gets . . . . zzzzzzzzzzzz
 
Etu Malku said:
You're the one claiming these impossible feats, explain how they are accomplished?

Ask God? I'd get the same answer everyone else gets . . . . zzzzzzzzzzzz
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What feat are you calling impossible? Praying or doing good deeds? Loving, confessing, or forgiving? Having faith in someone, even if they are unfaithful? Having patience? Being honest?

Do you think these things are possible for you, yet impossible for God? Or, possible for God, but impossible for you?
 
luecy7 said:
A person can interact with God: prayer, deeds, and to see words and deeds of God.
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I have always thought of prayer as a form of meditation. Doesn't God already know everything you're going to say in prayer?

Can you give us an example of a deed of God? Can one see a deed of God without interacting with God? Do you consider the recent drought in Oklahoma/Texas a deed of God?
 
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