human nature - inherently good or evil?

Quahom1 said:
To be accused of being a failure, would probably hit the mark...but then, proof would to be had to back it up.
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I didn't say he was a failure, I tried to highlight the downfalls of not expressing your being openly - hiding parts of you depending on audience.
 
Quahom1 said:
No, I spoke my concerns about one trying to belittle another. There is nothing untrue about that statement. But I see Cup Of Tea is quite in his element and on his game, so that is a relief to me. As for others here, I would simply like to have dialogue without the personal confrontation. I abhore conflict...
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See, this is my problem with you right now...

My words can assist him to grow as a person, but because I am highlighting his current downfall you perceive it as I'm being offensive...

Do you honestly think ANYTHING I say here is intended to belittle anyone? I am attempting to show as many people as possible their true nature, they are one with the entirety of existence. You do not understand how awesome our natural being is, so it is not surprising you take it as trying to put them down.

Let me assure you everything I say is to help people realize their true awesomeness, I am absolutely against anything that says anyone is their mediocre current existence. What I say is to help people realize how much more they are.

Thing is, to accomplish this, there is a certain necessity to highlight the primary block to that realization. I have to attack ego to let people know how great they really are...

Anything I see people valuing that is less than That must be torn down.
 
Lunitik said:
Thing is, to accomplish this, there is a certain necessity to highlight the primary block to that realization. I have to attack ego to let people know how great they really are...

Anything I see people valuing that is less than That must be torn down.
Click to expand...

You attack ego, defenses go up, and it strengthens. Unless you are willing to go for complete destruction and clean up the mess afterwards, your technique is counterproductive.
 
Lunitik said:
I didn't say he was a failure, I tried to highlight the downfalls of not expressing your being openly - hiding parts of you depending on audience.
Click to expand...
for certain...shall we continue this dialogue in private? A PM would be appropriate I should think.

v/r

Q
 
Lunitik said:
See, this is my problem with you right now...

My words can assist him to grow as a person, but because I am highlighting his current downfall you perceive it as I'm being offensive...

Do you honestly think ANYTHING I say here is intended to belittle anyone? I am attempting to show as many people as possible their true nature, they are one with the entirety of existence. You do not understand how awesome our natural being is, so it is not surprising you take it as trying to put them down.

Let me assure you everything I say is to help people realize their true awesomeness, I am absolutely against anything that says anyone is their mediocre current existence. What I say is to help people realize how much more they are.

Thing is, to accomplish this, there is a certain necessity to highlight the primary block to that realization. I have to attack ego to let people know how great they really are...

Anything I see people valuing that is less than That must be torn down.
Click to expand...
Ok, I hear you. Cup of Tea is fine and capable, thank you. Tell me about ME...what is my major malfunction? What am I doing wrong? I want to know the truth...No one has the nuts to tell me...do you?
 
seattlegal said:
You attack ego, defenses go up, and it strengthens. Unless you are willing to go for complete destruction and clean up the mess afterwards, your technique is counterproductive.
Click to expand...
Qween to Qween's three...there is a check somewhere.., and a mate...
 
Quahom1 said:
No, I spoke my concerns about one trying to belittle another. There is nothing untrue about that statement. But I see Cup Of Tea is quite in his element and on his game, so that is a relief to me. As for others here, I would simply like to have dialogue without the personal confrontation. I abhore conflict...
Click to expand...
Bear with me while I say this a few times:

The words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that may hurt a person are the words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that they themselves put forth.

The words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that may hurt a person are the words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that they themselves put forth.

The words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that may hurt a person are the words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that they themselves put forth.

This is true even for Jesus, who was crucified... why, because he failed to speak up? Was it because his thoughts were fabricated and false? No, because he spoke up and others considered it a threat to them.

I agree with you: Cup of Tea appears to get something. My question is, why don't you?

Quahom1 said:
To be accused of being a failure, would probably hit the mark...but then, proof would to be had to back it up.
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I submit then that what hurts is your fear that the words, the thoughts, and the beliefs that you have had over many years may have been wrong, and that you yourself may have truly been a failure. If someone presents the proof, though few people can, then it will hurt even more. Be forgiving of others so that you can recognize where you are forgiven.

I request, I look, and I have seen some of where God has shown me, and reminds me, that I have been a failure. So I am a failure; I have failed. At the same time, I have seen where God has shown and encouraged me where I have not failed. Failed by whose criteria... Lunitik's? Yours? Mine? Yes and No: Failure by God's criteria, and the criteria by which I have treated others. God has the proof. I don't even have the proof of all of my failures. Does Lunitik? Obviously not.

If you wish to know, I have a small slice of proof that you have been a failure by your own criteria. You have been a total hypocrite. I am not going to tell you how I have proof, unless you wish to know. By your accounting above, you do not wish to know. You have said that the words will hurt you, and I am quite comfortable... all too comfortable... keeping my peace.
 
luecy7 said:
Bear with me while I say this a few times:

The words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that may hurt a person are the words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that they themselves put forth.

The words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that may hurt a person are the words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that they themselves put forth.

The words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that may hurt a person are the words, the thoughts, or the beliefs that they themselves put forth.

This is true even for Jesus, who was crucified... why, because he failed to speak up? Was it because his thoughts were fabricated and false? No, because he spoke up and others considered it a threat to them.

I agree with you: Cup of Tea appears to get something. My question is, why don't you?
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Tell me then, what part of the elephant is like God? I haven't figured it out yet...and I don't think anyone can explain it in such a way for me to "see" the whole of the truth. :eek:
 
Quahom1 said:
Tell me then, what part of the elephant is like God? I haven't figured it out yet...and I don't think anyone can explain it in such a way for me to "see" the whole of the truth. :eek:
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The part that you can't see, except through interaction.
 
seattlegal said:
You attack ego, defenses go up, and it strengthens. Unless you are willing to go for complete destruction and clean up the mess afterwards, your technique is counterproductive.
Click to expand...

I am willing, but it has not happened yet with anyone here.
 
Quahom1 said:
for certain...shall we continue this dialogue in private? A PM would be appropriate I should think.
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I have no problem with discussing in the forums, but if you'd rather discuss the matter privately it is fine. For me, it is done but if you would like to further clarify things, go ahead.
 
Quahom1 said:
Ok, I hear you. Cup of Tea is fine and capable, thank you. Tell me about ME...what is my major malfunction? What am I doing wrong? I want to know the truth...No one has the nuts to tell me...do you?
Click to expand...

I have no had enough dialog with you to say anything like this... you don't seem that interested in engaging in dialog, just pop up every now and then to moderate it seems like. As I already said though, you should perhaps try to look at things from two angles and respond to the average between those perspectives. Think of the worst possible and best possible meaning behind words or actions, then assume the other is speaking from somewhere between them unless given further evidence in either direction.
 
Quahom1 said:
Tell me then, what part of the elephant is like God? I haven't figured it out yet...and I don't think anyone can explain it in such a way for me to "see" the whole of the truth. :eek:
Click to expand...

Mind cannot fathom God, you will have to experience it... to do that, situations must be created where mind ceases its endless motion. Every aspect of that elephant is God, everything the elephant eats is God, every time the elephant breaths in he is taking in God and every time he breaths out he releases God. Every step he takes, he stands on God...

Nothing occurs without God, nothing can occur without God. Why then is there so much seeming evil in the world? Think of it, what sorts of movies do most people prefer? Peace is not very interesting to view...
 
luecy7 said:
The part that you can't see, except through interaction.
Click to expand...

You limit God by saying it is only the unseen... it is simply that we do not acknowledge that nothing can be without That.

That said, it is equally interesting you say it is the unseen, because it is the unseen aspect that is the purpose of meditation - which you speak much against. It would be more helpful for you to see all outer things as God, watch closely how everything is interconnected, etc... these can show you much about God and the way he works.

Mostly I am saying this is very inconsistent... it makes it too easy for religion to not really be a major part of your life.
 
Lunitik said:
Mind cannot fathom God, you will have to experience it... to do that, situations must be created where mind ceases its endless motion. Every aspect of that elephant is God, everything the elephant eats is God, every time the elephant breaths in he is taking in God and every time he breaths out he releases God. Every step he takes, he stands on God...

Nothing occurs without God, nothing can occur without God. Why then is there so much seeming evil in the world? Think of it, what sorts of movies do most people prefer? Peace is not very interesting to view...
Click to expand...
Experiencing is using your mind. Everything happens without god. The reason people are drawn to non-peaceful movies is because they desire to escape the mundane world, to face a monster through the hero of a movie.
To glimpse at darkness is normal, albeit morbid to certain degrees but nonetheless normal.
 
seattlegal said:
You attack ego, defenses go up, and it strengthens. Unless you are willing to go for complete destruction and clean up the mess afterwards, your technique is counterproductive.
Click to expand...

Lunitik said:
I am willing, but it has not happened yet with anyone here.
Click to expand...

seattlegal said:
And why do you think that is? Telling untruths and such?
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Lunitik said:
Too much in mind, and I am mindful of barriers which will result in banning.
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The north wind blows with all its might and a person clutches their outer garment even more closely. The sun comes out and shines, and the person removes their outer garment of their own accord.
 
Etu Malku said:
Experiencing is using your mind. Everything happens without god. The reason people are drawn to non-peaceful movies is because they desire to escape the mundane world, to face a monster through the hero of a movie.
To glimpse at darkness is normal, albeit morbid to certain degrees but nonetheless normal.
Click to expand...

Experiencing does not entail mind at all, but your mind has asserted that it should retain a certain position in the matter - it wants to retain its assertions.

People are attracted to "non-peaceful" movies because they are interesting, compelling. If all movies simply showed mundane lives, who would ever watch them? In this life, everything we do, everything we encounter is part of a grander movie theater.
 
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