human nature - inherently good or evil?

[Bhaktajan II]

Personality is a fabrication, the result of learning certain responses for certain situations, it is the opposite of individuality.

You are refering to Ego.

Personality is the Goal of Living Soul.

Personality is the Summon Bonum of the reson for creation.

God, by definition is the Supreme Personality whence Persona Springs from.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

The Highest bliss on earth shall be
The joys of personality! - Goethe

The achievement of personality means the optimum development of the whole individual Human Being. The miracle that is this Human Being/Great Ape/Intelligent Ape is that we are able to act otherwise than as humanity has always acted, and it is explained as the gift of the Dæmon

What leads the typical Human Being to this enlightenment is "vocation'. The irrational factor that destines One's Self to emancipation from the herd and well-worn paths of society.

Those with vocation do hear the Inner Voice of their Dæmon as it whispers to them of new and wonderful paths.

The Inner Voice is our comprehensive consciousness, it is the birth of the hero and the symbolic rebirth. It is synonymous with an increased Self Awareness. Mythologically this has been associated with Solar attributions and deification, it is the expansion of Self into the Greater Personality and has been known as Illumination/Enlightenment/Luciferian Gnosis.

We have seen this in many stories, particularly the Temptation of Christ and the Mara of Buddha. The Inner Voice whispers to us of something negative, something Evil. We are unconscious of our vices but conscious of our virtues, the Inner Voice presents this Evil in an Individual Form, it is always tempting, convincing, and seductive. Its goal is to make us succumb to it.

Of this we must partially succumb. If we do not partially succumb, this Evil enters us, if we succumb completely, then this Evil becomes a catastrophe. But if we succumb only in part, by self-assertion the Ego can save itself from being completely swallowed, then it will assimilate the voice, and we realize the Evil was only a semblance of evil, and reality a Bringer of Light (healing & illumination) Lux Lucis.
QUOTE]

The above is a great explaination ---certaininl it is a plagerised or borrowed re-0wording of Buddhist doctrine.

The Inner Voice is the Luciferian Principle in the strictest sense of the Word. It faces us with the ultimate moral decisions without which we can never achieve full consciousness and Become Individual.

This last statement seems to be an add-on ---No?

Self-realisation is achieved by Classical Mantra Meditation
and thus sensing the Soul/Knower within the body of the meditating seeker. Later comes the application & voction of one's abilities toward a higher purpose and goal beyond our tiny individual persona.

 

[Lunitik]

You are refering to Ego.

Personality is the Goal of Living Soul.

Personality is the Summon Bonum of the reson for creation.

God, by definition is the Supreme Personality whence Persona Springs from.

Soul is temporary.

Persona is a fraud, God is the only true being, each persona is his leela.

Please do not correct me.

 

[Etu Malku]

The Highest bliss on earth shall be
The joys of personality! - Goethe

The achievement of personality means the optimum development of the whole individual Human Being. The miracle that is this Human Being/Great Ape/Intelligent Ape is that we are able to act otherwise than as humanity has always acted, and it is explained as the gift of the Dæmon

What leads the typical Human Being to this enlightenment is "vocation'. The irrational factor that destines One's Self to emancipation from the herd and well-worn paths of society.

Those with vocation do hear the Inner Voice of their Dæmon as it whispers to them of new and wonderful paths.

The Inner Voice is our comprehensive consciousness, it is the birth of the hero and the symbolic rebirth. It is synonymous with an increased Self Awareness. Mythologically this has been associated with Solar attributions and deification, it is the expansion of Self into the Greater Personality and has been known as Illumination/Enlightenment/Luciferian Gnosis.

We have seen this in many stories, particularly the Temptation of Christ and the Mara of Buddha. The Inner Voice whispers to us of something negative, something Evil. We are unconscious of our vices but conscious of our virtues, the Inner Voice presents this Evil in an Individual Form, it is always tempting, convincing, and seductive. Its goal is to make us succumb to it.

Of this we must partially succumb. If we do not partially succumb, this Evil enters us, if we succumb completely, then this Evil becomes a catastrophe. But if we succumb only in part, by self-assertion the Ego can save itself from being completely swallowed, then it will assimilate the voice, and we realize the Evil was only a semblance of evil, and reality a Bringer of Light (healing & illumination) Lux Lucis.
QUOTE]

The above is a great explaination ---certaininl it is a plagerised or borrowed re-0wording of Buddhist doctrine.



This last statement seems to be an add-on ---No?

Self-realisation is achieved by Classical Mantra Meditation
and thus sensing the Soul/Knower within the body of the meditating seeker. Later comes the application & voction of one's abilities toward a higher purpose and goal beyond our tiny individual persona.

I may have taken poetic license with this post!

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Soul is temporary.

Persona is a fraud, God is the only true being, each persona is his leela.

Please do not correct me.

The soul is as Stated by Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita:

From The 2nd Chapter of the Gita (Verse Numbers shown):
16 Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent the material body there is no endurance and of the eternal the soul there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both.
17 That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul.
18 The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata.
19 Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain.
20 For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.
21 O Partha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?
22 As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.
23 The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.
24 This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.
25 It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body.
26 If, however, you think that the soul or the symptoms of life is always born and dies forever, you still have no reason to lament, O mighty-armed.
27 One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament.
28 All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?
29 Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all.

Please do not correct me.

Are you expecting a SVENGHALI MEDAL ?????????
Do you recognise a Svenghali when you intimate one?

Here's the lesson of a lifetime:
. . . "would either fawn or bully and could be grossly impertinent . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svengali

 

[luecy7]

Are you finished toying with "my tool?"

I hope I did not toy with your tool without your approval. When and where did I do this?

 

[luecy7]

I wanna know how from individual application, we have jumped to another object?

It is just how you read it.

Luecy has already admitted he objectifies people, so for him tools and people are not that different at all, only that the person can express those things in return so perhaps there is a little more depth.

No. People can only honestly objectify themselves. You are trying to falsely characterize.

It is not at all surprising that a non-meditator cannot fathom a non-targeted love, when each person you encounter is recognized as part of the whole and your love is for the whole, you will love each person deeply. The difference is that it is not a possession, you do not cling to the other, you simply enjoy their presence while they are in your life. When it is time for them to leave, you allow it utterly because you know they are not necessary for your love.

If you think you are loving an entire population that you do not individually know, and do not individually interact with, then your love is confined to your imagination at best. While sitting solo in a room meditating for your own pleasure / enlightenment, you think you are loving someone?

Yet, that is exactly what goes on today, often you hear "she makes me happy", it is disgusting and it is not at all different from a drug now.

I certainly find it false to deny responsibility and pretend that one's own feelings or behavior are someone else's responsibility. However, I think you have a related problem: associating the feelings or behavior of others with your actions.

 

[Quahom1]

Soul is temporary.

Persona is a fraud, God is the only true being, each persona is his leela.

Please do not correct me.

So, everything I have done, every life I have saved, every life I could not save...was for naught? Who are you?

Last time I checked, life was a precious commodity, and the Soul was potenially eternal...I think Jesus said as much...

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

You are not being honest with yourself though, you are allowing the other to affect your honesty. Why be guarded against the other? You are simply trying to protect yourself, you are unwilling to love, to reach out to another and risk pain.

You are correct, it is an example of what is described as the "mask".

that is untrue, and unfair. you have no idea what Cup O is about. you lash out and try to hurt folk, you know nothing about. Stop, please. I am asking you to stop. You have so much to contribute to this forum...don't waste it.

v/r

Q

 

[luecy7]

that is untrue, and unfair. you have no idea what Cup O is about. you lash out and try to hurt folk, you know nothing about. Stop, please. I am asking you to stop. You have so much to contribute to this forum...don't waste it.

So then a train wreck for you. What statement, true or untrue, fair or unfair, hurts you? Honestly?

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Q is only sticking up for me, which is nice to know. Lunitik can't say anything to hurt me but Q didn't know that. It's all good, all the time.

 

[luecy7]

Q is only sticking up for me, which is nice to know. Lunitik can't say anything to hurt me but Q didn't know that. It's all good, all the time.

Thank you. I wasn't sure if you were claiming to be hurt or not. Good to know. So then Q had fabricated untrue statements in the same manner as what he accused Lunitik of.

 

[Lunitik]

So, everything I have done, every life I have saved, every life I could not save...was for naught? Who are you?

Last time I checked, life was a precious commodity, and the Soul was potenially eternal...I think Jesus said as much...

Essentially, yes. Everything you have encountered in your life is something your soul has learned from, has grown from. Ultimately, though, your soul will return to God and whatsoever you have done as a separate being will be only the contrast to that union. It is somewhat like playing a part in a movie, it is gripping to the audience, enjoyable to the actor, but he must return to his true life afterwards - religion is about discovering our true life, that we have never been distinct from God, we are simply an aspect of That.

 

[Etu Malku]

Essentially, yes. Everything you have encountered in your life is something your soul has learned from, has grown from. Ultimately, though, your soul will return to God and whatsoever you have done as a separate being will be only the contrast to that union. It is somewhat like playing a part in a movie, it is gripping to the audience, enjoyable to the actor, but he must return to his true life afterwards - religion is about discovering our true life, that we have never been distinct from God, we are simply an aspect of That.

That's odd . . . since there is no god!

 

[Lunitik]

that is untrue, and unfair. you have no idea what Cup O is about. you lash out and try to hurt folk, you know nothing about. Stop, please. I am asking you to stop. You have so much to contribute to this forum...don't waste it.

It is ironic that in this request you actually ask me to not act on anything I can contribute to the forum - yet you do not realize it. I have not attempted to hurt anyone, and in fact the "you"'s in the statement weren't even directly related to him. I have said "by doing this you" or similar, thus I am speaking about the underlying reason for such things in a general way.

I really wish you wouldn't overreact so much because it makes it difficult to express anything here.

 

[Lunitik]

That's odd . . . since there is no god!

When I say God I mean existence itself, the whole... what you encountered when you experienced at-one-ment, that oneness.

I understand you are against this, but the thing is existence doesn't really care what you like and dislike about it, it simply is as it is. Whether you like it or not, God is the very reason you are alive this moment to dispute his existence...

That said, I do not uphold God in the same way Christians or other faiths do, and I do not feel there are any obligations implicit in this recognition.

 

[Lunitik]

Put another way, God doesn't exist, God is existence.

 

[IowaGuy]

Put another way, God doesn't exist, God is existence.

Pantheism.

 

[Quahom1]

So then a train wreck for you. What statement, true or untrue, fair or unfair, hurts you? Honestly?

To be accused of being a failure, would probably hit the mark...but then, proof would to be had to back it up.

 

[Quahom1]

Thank you. I wasn't sure if you were claiming to be hurt or not. Good to know. So then Q had fabricated untrue statements in the same manner as what he accused Lunitik of.

No, I spoke my concerns about one trying to belittle another. There is nothing untrue about that statement. But I see Cup Of Tea is quite in his element and on his game, so that is a relief to me. As for others here, I would simply like to have dialogue without the personal confrontation. I abhore conflict...

v/r

Q