agnosticism

[Lunitik]

Gee, again, thaks for the psychological help. All I was stating was the reasons why I doubt, which afterall what agnosticism is all about. All scientists doubt, google skepticism and science in scholor. And that is not how I (or most of what humanity) define as the truth. Not trying to proove anything here, just stating I do not agree that "truth" as we human beings usually use it has very little to do with yours.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt.

Agnosticism isn't a doubt, it just isn't a confirmation... it is simply a non-decision, the middle between them. You are perfectly correct though, most humans do not recognize this truth which I discuss - in fact it is the very reason it has to be taught, to remind them what is true.

I am on an interfaith site because in this context I feel I can assist some to remember. When brought up outside of religious discussion, society today has a very negative reaction this - they feel it a private matter, one of the topics that should not be discussed at all. It has been surprising to me that even in this context - people interested in learning from each other - there is still a negativity. My whole reason for being on this site is to turn agnostics into gnostics - the problem is that there are atheists and theists, which both are fundamentally flawed. People think they know when they do not, this is a problem.

Whose problem though? Well, it is mine, I am creating it because I want to share an experience I feel all should have. I can see that people are well studied, and yet that text has provided nothing but this identity with knowledge - it is nothing but their own comprehension, and it cannot be comprehended in normal consciousness. It is no one elses fault than my own though, it is really stupid of me to even have taken up this direction, it is interfaith, not intertruth.

 

[Etu Malku]

Agnosticism isn't a doubt, it just isn't a confirmation... it is simply a non-decision, the middle between them. You are perfectly correct though, most humans do not recognize this truth which I discuss - in fact it is the very reason it has to be taught, to remind them what is true.

I am on an interfaith site because in this context I feel I can assist some to remember. When brought up outside of religious discussion, society today has a very negative reaction this - they feel it a private matter, one of the topics that should not be discussed at all. It has been surprising to me that even in this context - people interested in learning from each other - there is still a negativity. My whole reason for being on this site is to turn agnostics into gnostics - the problem is that there are atheists and theists, which both are fundamentally flawed. People think they know when they do not, this is a problem.

Whose problem though? Well, it is mine, I am creating it because I want to share an experience I feel all should have. I can see that people are well studied, and yet that text has provided nothing but this identity with knowledge - it is nothing but their own comprehension, and it cannot be comprehended in normal consciousness. It is no one elses fault than my own though, it is really stupid of me to even have taken up this direction, it is interfaith, not intertruth.

And Gnosticism isn't flawed? LOL . . . yeah, the Flying Spaghetti Demiurge sounds much better!

 

[seattlegal]

And Gnosticism isn't flawed? LOL . . . yeah, the Flying Spaghetti Demiurge sounds much better!

Hey, don't talk about His Sauciness that way! He might send the Pirates who are holding back global warming after you!

 

[radarmark]

Hey, don't talk about His Sauciness that way! He might send the Pirates who are holding back global warming after you!

Et tu, sauncy wench?

 

[seattlegal]

Et tu, sauncy wench?

LOL, I love Pastafarianism! I mean a modern day society of Sacred Clowns who will naturally pull the antics that Chan/Zen will pull, without the training! How can I resist?

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Lunitik, you have some good intent, but I doubt you will find many who will listen to you for two reasons. Your views are very different from the mainstream and few are willing to leave their comfort zone. Also, you have a way that is perceived by many of us as arrogant. I wish you well on your path but don't have too high expectations.

 

[radarmark]

Pastafarianism?

I just like my old sacred Zuni, Hopi and Cherokee "clowns". Ever seen a gourd dance or know what Kokopelli really is packing?

I am sorry if this is tooooooo odd, but you catcheth on!

 

[Lunitik]

Lunitik, you have some good intent, but I doubt you will find many who will listen to you for two reasons. Your views are very different from the mainstream and few are willing to leave their comfort zone. Also, you have a way that is perceived by many of us as arrogant. I wish you well on your path but don't have too high expectations.

My arrogance is intentional, it is to show you out of any comfort zone.

They are not views though, that's the thing. I know, and I wish for all to know, I want to rant and rave about the beauty of it, the ecstasy all are missing because they are stuck in their mediocrity but I cannot. If it becomes a desire, then the whole pursuit is utterly pointless... what to do then?

All you can do is sprinkle a little water on the seed and wait....

 

[seattlegal]

...know what Kokopelli really is packing?

Eeek! The Pollinator! **runs and hides**

 

[radarmark]

Gee, no one else would ever get the reference. Thanks, you is a good sport.

 

[luecy7]

My arrogance is intentional, it is to show you out of any comfort zone.

The problem with being a devil's advocate is that you are a devil's advocate. If you lie to influence someone, you do lie. If you are arrogant to influence someone, you are arrogant. If you hate someone because you see them as hateful, you are the person who hates.

 

[IowaGuy]

Well, you're not enlightened, so cool out.

Etu - how can one tell whether another person is enlightened or not?

I have been reading some Krishnamurti lately and it has me pondering this point. Not that I think Lunitik is enlightened or not ("realized" is the term Krishnamurti uses), but I'm curious how the doubters on this forum would propose one could be tested for enlightenment?

 

[Lunitik]

The problem with being a devil's advocate is that you are a devil's advocate. If you lie to influence someone, you do lie. If you are arrogant to influence someone, you are arrogant. If you hate someone because you see them as hateful, you are the person who hates.

I do not see a problem.

 

[Lunitik]

Etu - how can one tell whether another person is enlightened or not?

I have been reading some Krishnamurti lately and it has me pondering this point. Not that I think Lunitik is enlightened or not ("realized" is the term Krishnamurti uses), but I'm curious how the doubters on this forum would propose one could be tested for enlightenment?

Which one?

Papaji or Theosophy?

The only true test is to try their techniques and see whether they transform you, and even if they do not it is not definitive, it simply means they are not for you - you have not been able to trust them.

 

[Lunitik]

And Gnosticism isn't flawed? LOL . . . yeah, the Flying Spaghetti Demiurge sounds much better!

Neither of us were discussing the Gnosticism around Jesus and Judaism, we were discussing the actual meaning: to know. Furthermore, I was even speaking against that: why say you know when you do not? I was speaking in favor of agnosticism, the position that you simply do not know, as the most authentic approach to spiritual seeking. Otherwise, what are you seeking exactly? You already know, you have already fed the ego...

 

[Nick the Pilot]

"... I'm curious how the doubters on this forum would propose one could be tested for enlightenment?"

--> I believe only one enlightened person can recognize another enlightened person.

 

[IowaGuy]

I believe only one enlightened person can recognize another enlightened person.

If that's the case, how do you know anyone in history has ever reached enlightenment, or that it is possible at all?

 

[Etu Malku]

Etu - how can one tell whether another person is enlightened or not?

I have been reading some Krishnamurti lately and it has me pondering this point. Not that I think Lunitik is enlightened or not ("realized" is the term Krishnamurti uses), but I'm curious how the doubters on this forum would propose one could be tested for enlightenment?

I know there is Self-Realization, and glimpses of it are possible for all of us, enlightenment is a word I am wary of.

That said, being an Agnostic Luciferian , I don't know if Lunitik is enlightened or not, that would be nice if he were.

 

[Lunitik]

I know there is Self-Realization, and glimpses of it are possible for all of us, enlightenment is a word I am wary of.

That said, being an Agnostic Luciferian , I don't know if Lunitik is enlightened or not, that would be nice if he were.

Self-realization is a type of enlightenment.

Enlightenment is used to convey the same which is conveyed through "Lucifer", it points to that light which emanates in existence in the experience, that richness of color, the beauty of it.

After Self-realization, there are still two chakras to open: 3rd eye and crown - each is a further increase in consciousness. I am not fully enlightened, because these have not yet happened for me, I am Self-realized and my 3rd eye wants to open. I do not wish to force it though, it must happen of its own accord.

 

[Etu Malku]

Self-realization is a type of enlightenment.

Enlightenment is used to convey the same which is conveyed through "Lucifer", it points to that light which emanates in existence in the experience, that richness of color, the beauty of it.

After Self-realization, there are still two chakras to open: 3rd eye and crown - each is a further increase in consciousness. I am not fully enlightened, because these have not yet happened for me, I am Self-realized and my 3rd eye wants to open. I do not wish to force it though, it must happen of its own accord.

Damn . . . I'm doomed, I don't believe in chakras!