agnosticism

seattlegal said:
One other thing--a guide is necessary because it is difficult to clearly perceive reality through your intestines when your head is shoved up your bum....
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Certainly, for many it is necessary, but at the same time a "guide" can be a great harm - you have to be careful.
 
seattlegal said:
So have you reconsidered this position you just recently posted?
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You'd think so, but no... it is a fallacy, but still we function as individuals until that fallacy is realized. While still functioning as individuals, it is very dangerous to become too much identified with a crowd because then it becomes possible to do many atrocious things which you would normally not do.
 
seattlegal said:
Oh I agree. It's easy to become deceived when your discernment is lost in the unity of opposites.
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Actually, I think spiritual discernment is more difficult when things are not considered in light of oneness. You are still functioning from your programming, so you will not make right choices - it is impossible.
 
Lunitik said:
Actually, I think spiritual discernment is more difficult when things are not considered in light of oneness. You are still functioning from your programming, so you will not make right choices - it is impossible.
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Even in oneness, there are bad outcomes and there are good outcomes. Don't forget about dharma.
 
seattlegal said:
Even in oneness, there are bad outcomes and there are good outcomes. Don't forget about dharma.
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Oneness is central to dharma, in fact I would go so far as to say oneness IS dharma. Good and bad are perceptions, they are projections you put onto a situation. For instance, killing a human is bad, but we have no problem killing animals. Even beyond this, we actually have nature shows where the whole show is centered around the hunting characteristics of a big cat. How will we say one is bad while the other is good? It is merely something we have put onto the situation ourselves. Not that I am saying we should go out and find someone to kill, no, but yet we have the death penalty and it is celebrated for instance in Texas so clearly good and bad are not set things.
 
Lunitik said:
Oneness is central to dharma, in fact I would go so far as to say oneness IS dharma. Good and bad are perceptions, they are projections you put onto a situation. For instance, killing a human is bad, but we have no problem killing animals. Even beyond this, we actually have nature shows where the whole show is centered around the hunting characteristics of a big cat. How will we say one is bad while the other is good? It is merely something we have put onto the situation ourselves. Not that I am saying we should go out and find someone to kill, no, but yet we have the death penalty and it is celebrated for instance in Texas so clearly good and bad are not set things.
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The side effects of entirely collectivist thinking/action, collateral damage, is very real. Remember the individuals.
 
seattlegal said:
The crown of thorns mentioned in the gospels is particularly symbolic, imo.
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That's my point, if they don't physically exist in the body, then chakras are a funcion of mind, symbolic, and could be treated like any other religious symbol like a crown of thorns, dove of peace, olive branch, the little satan and angel that are inside our heads, a cross, etc.

Therefore, I don't understand the danger of "opening up" chakras?

What exactly do you think can happen if they are just symbolic (of mind) and not a true physical phenomenon of the body?

It's not that I don't appreciate religious symbolism, I just have never considered symbols "dangerous"...
 
I don't know if there is any evidence, but I might think of Yeshua as a mage of some sort, and given the well traveled trade routes to both India and Egypt, it is very likely that He would have studied Vedic and Egyptian mysticism.

The halo, aureole (from the Latin for "golden") or any type of 'enlightenment aura' around religious, martyr and hero figures was implemented in Art forms to depict the obvious statement of . . . well, enlightenment or golden crown.
In the physical world none of us have ever seen a halo under normal physiological conditions.
 
Etu Malku said:
I don't know if there is any evidence, but I might think of Yeshua as a mage of some sort, and given the well traveled trade routes to both India and Egypt, it is very likely that He would have studied Vedic and Egyptian mysticism.

The halo, aureole (from the Latin for "golden") or any type of 'enlightenment aura' around religious, martyr and hero figures was implemented in Art forms to depict the obvious statement of . . . well, enlightenment or golden crown.
In the physical world none of us have ever seen a halo under normal physiological conditions.
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Hey, my ex says he sees them all the time.
 
"Seeing" aura, chi, chakras and halos is not all that uncommon, if one speaks to the adherents of the practices that admit such statements. Synesthesia or psychosis and the fact that individuals thusly effected are considered "touched by the Divine" is the usual explanation (between the two, we are talking 1 out of 1,000 prople or so).

There is a rather famous $1,000,000 test of "aural vision" offered by James Randi. But then he is dealing with Newager stuff, not real traditions. I wonder if anyone of a such a background would ever even consider that?

Mystical or spiritual insights developed in a tradition, with discipline and dedication, are somewhat different than visualization "tricks" I used to practice in the 60s "under the influence" as they say.

Pax et amore omnia vincuntes
 
Lunitik said:
If you want to say existence - God - is the guru then certainly I will agree a guru is necessary. What is not necessary is becoming a devotee to any man, all enlightened people are simply vehicles of That, but too many say you must surrender to them, merge with them. No, it is only to the Whole that you should surrender.
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What do you think God wants? :D
 
luecy7 said:
So then you are not agnostic. Are you just a meme that wants to survive?
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The Name Etu Malku is a meme (it's also my magickal name not my real name), it exists outside and away from me, on its own with the help of a multitude of replicators.

To answer you question clearer, part of me is an organism, a bunch of atomic structures, all of which function to survive and continue by way of Natural Selection. The other part of me is why I exist, to try and understand it.
 
Etu Malku said:
The Name Etu Malku is a meme (it's also my magickal name not my real name), it exists outside and away from me, on its own with the help of a multitude of replicators.

To answer you question clearer, part of me is an organism, a bunch of atomic structures, all of which function to survive and continue by way of Natural Selection. The other part of me is why I exist, to try and understand it.
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So it is not what you want... it is your name, the meme, Etu Malku, that wants to survive. :D

The name God, the meme, points to what... yet another meme that wants to survive? Are you likewise just a meme that your name points to?
 
luecy7 said:
So it is not what you want... it is your name, the meme, Etu Malku, that wants to survive. :D

The name God, the meme, points to what... yet another meme that wants to survive? Are you likewise just a meme that your name points to?
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In essence isn't this immortality? Physical immortality escapes us at the present time.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned what I want :rolleyes:
 
Etu Malku said:
In essence isn't this immortality?
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If people gossip, and fabricate, bringing physical life to your name, then are you living as result? I don't think so. If they don't, then is your name living? I don't think so.

There is a tendency to declare what the name means, or points to, rather than letting the person declare what the name points to. As with a person, with God.

Etu Malku said:
Physical immortality escapes us at the present time.
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Interesting statement. I would reverse it. At the present time, who escapes from being physical?
 
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