If God spoke again, would you listen?

[Lunitik]

Very true. And again the question arises of how do we know the truth?

Maybe part of our power is that God doesn't need to convince us of anything. Maybe we need to convince ourselves of something...and God will confirm that.

The only convincing is to be open.

"God" is a word, with all your being, ask: "What is God?" - ask right from your heart, as if nothing else matters. Then simply watch for any new interests and engage in them deeply, openly, with utmost trust. You will be carried through intuition until the path is completed, then you know.

If you are not even aware that something is up, if you never actually ask, why will you be disturbed? That will be rude...

 

[Lunitik]

like i've always maintained, if God wanted for me to know that God existed, it could certainly do so in a manner which would utter convince me. given that i'm not an omniscient being i don't know what manner that would take but then that is the provenance of God, yes?

metta,

~v

My understanding is that you are Buddhist...

In what ways do you consider God and Dharmakaya different?

Is it impossible that the Truth Body is merely Buddha's way of saying "I and my father are one"? Understand, I do not identify with any religion, I am aware however of many Zen masters who instruct students to read texts such as the Quran and then proceed with their practice...

I love Buddha because his whole teaching avoids fanaticism by design, but the tenth fetter is the ignorance pertaining to separateness. Everyone goes on saying "God is one", so how do they disagree with relation to the destination? Not dogma, not path, but why do you think your pull towards Buddha is not a pull towards the genuine nature of what is called God?

 

[Vajradhara]

Playing hide-and-go-seek, perhaps?

cheeky monkey is it?! well suffice it to say that i counted to 10 and looked all over the playground and couldn't find any trace.

metta,

~v

 

[Vajradhara]

Very true. And again the question arises of how do we know the truth?

Maybe part of our power is that God doesn't need to convince us of anything. Maybe we need to convince ourselves of something...and God will confirm that.

well... i'm of the view than an omniscient being would be able to ascertain what it is that would be sufficient evidence to me even without me knowing it in an articulable manner.

if it's about convincing ourselves well humans have a fascinating history of being able to convince themselves of just about anything that they so choose and thus i cannot really find that line of argumentation to be compelling except insofar as it demonstrates the power of the human mind.

metta,

~v

 

[Vajradhara]

My understanding is that you are Buddhist...

In what ways do you consider God and Dharmakaya different?

generally speaking that is a hard question to answer for the term "god" here has been, so it seems, to be applying to a monotheistic sort of being that acts of it's own free will which, naturally, the Dharmakaya does not.

Is it impossible that the Truth Body is merely Buddha's way of saying "I and my father are one"? Understand, I do not identify with any religion, I am aware however of many Zen masters who instruct students to read texts such as the Quran and then proceed with their practice...

i do enjoy Zen/Ch'an quite a bit and find many of their practices and their flouting of the orthodoxy to be quite enlivening and, often, Awakening to people. is it possible? sure, i suppose so but it is not probable.

I love Buddha because his whole teaching avoids fanaticism by design, but the tenth fetter is the ignorance pertaining to separateness. Everyone goes on saying "God is one", so how do they disagree with relation to the destination? Not dogma, not path, but why do you think your pull towards Buddha is not a pull towards the genuine nature of what is called God?

given that the Buddha addressed that query himself i'll have to go with his answer on that, i hope that's ok, and simply reply that he specifically said that he wasn't a deity (Deva) of any sort. IF, however, God turns out to be a Buddha then i think i'm all set.

metta,

~v

 

[Robert2011]

The only convincing is to be open.

"God" is a word, with all your being, ask: "What is God?" - ask right from your heart, as if nothing else matters. Then simply watch for any new interests and engage in them deeply, openly, with utmost trust. You will be carried through intuition until the path is completed, then you know.

If you are not even aware that something is up, if you never actually ask, why will you be disturbed? That will be rude...

Good approach I think. It seems that knowing is deeper than the mind we use everyday and are conditioned to the world with. A deeper mind perhaps?

 

[Lunitik]

generally speaking that is a hard question to answer for the term "god" here has been, so it seems, to be applying to a monotheistic sort of being that acts of it's own free will which, naturally, the Dharmakaya does not.

My encounters with Truth certainly do not appear to be something which is personal. That said, I do experience intuition which guides me counter to my thinking, and I have had certain prayers answered - although this is merely because a thought has gone out into the cosmos and has returned with a reply, it is unnecessary that a personal God be involved.

i do enjoy Zen/Ch'an quite a bit and find many of their practices and their flouting of the orthodoxy to be quite enlivening and, often, Awakening to people. is it possible? sure, i suppose so but it is not probable.

Why isn't it probable? I have noticed a lot of Westerners find Buddha intriguing exactly because he does not seem to accept God, but for me it seems he merely protects from delusions but guides you to the same place that any other religion would. Certainly, mans notion of God, with desire and jealousy and the like, is not the reality - these are human qualities - but I personally see no contradiction having been carried by Buddha to satori, then reading other texts discussing God.

given that the Buddha addressed that query himself i'll have to go with his answer on that, i hope that's ok, and simply reply that he specifically said that he wasn't a deity (Deva) of any sort. IF, however, God turns out to be a Buddha then i think i'm all set.

For me, this is another example of him trying to avoid delusion, yet for me it is also the basis for a sign that Buddhism is going awry. Buddha is venerated as a God by many Buddhists, people have forgotten his fundamental clarification: you are this as well, do not worship me. For me, many people miss Buddha because they become identified as Buddhists, I feel like many miss this attachment, because it is Buddha who is telling them to detach from everything...

 

[Lunitik]

It is interesting that every mystery religion on the planet can be traced to a particular meeting with Buddhists, this can explain why the texts I have read do not contradict Buddha. Whether Advaita, Yoga, Sufi, Hasidism and the Jewish mysteries, and indeed Jesus himself for Christianity, Buddhism seems to be the link...

That said, I am propelled away from Buddhism hearing of scandals in the West, knowing these Masters are merely sexually deprived perverts, but above this, they show a lack of ethics in that one particular Zen master has infected people with HIV over the course of 4 years KNOWINGLY, and no one has even questioned it who knew. There are many other examples of heinous actions of Buddhist masters, but this one sticks out.

Like all religions, Buddhism is being asked some very fundamental questions, I feel it is time for all to engage in religiousness, not fanaticism in the name of religion. The fundamental question should be "Who am I?" and like science, it should be through experimentation and experience, they go in different directions, but it doesn't mean there should be different criteria. Religion is about experimenting with the subjective, science the objective... their answers are beginning to merge, as object and subject must merge in your being.

This got preachy, I wish to apologize, yet I do not wish to delete it.

 

[Gatekeeper]

This got preachy, I wish to apologize, yet I do not wish to delete it.

No need to apologize for your views, lunitic. I tend to do more preaching than talking, but this is the only way I know how to convey my thoughts. It's the nature of having something to say. We want to be heard and for our views to be considered, but we are often met with resistance because everyone has their own beliefs that are sacred to them. I'm trying to take a more suitable tone, but i must admit that I find it difficult.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Do you mean where can you find them, or which ones I would suggest?

i just want to know what you are alluding to if anything ?

 

[Student of Knowledge]

God doesn’t speak. God doesn’t have any voice.

However, at critical junctures of human history, God has translated God’s Will to the Angelic Presence (also known as the Unseen Ones in the Greater Community Spirituality). Then one Messenger has been prepared to receive the Message and sent into the world to advance the humanity spiritually through God’s Message. It has always been that when a Messenger was brought into the world, there has always been only one Messenger of that era; there has been one Messenger in a period of about a millennium.

2390 B.C. < t < 1390 B.C. (1000 years) Moses (1319 B.C.)
1390 B.C. < t < 390 B.C. (1000 years) Buddha (563 B.C.)
390 B.C. < t < 570 A.D. (960 years) Jesus (7 B.C.)
570 A.D. < t < 1570 A.D. (1000 years) Muhammad (570 A.D.)
1570 A.D. < t < 2570 A.D.(?) (1000 years) Marshall Vian Summers (1949 A.D.)

[Here, the left inequalities should all be “less than or equal to”, rather than “less than.”]

Why did God send another Messenger into this world? Why is this time a critical juncture in human history? The humanity is proceeding headlong into the future unprepared, the future that will be unlike the past, facing the greatest challenge any race of any world would ever have to face in its evolution, the challenge of emerging into the Greater Community of Worlds. The humanity is ignorant of the reality of life in the universe. Yet, it is emerging into the Greater Community of Worlds, because the extraterrestrial beings are already “visiting” this world, and carrying out activities covertly unbeknownst to the humanity.

The same Angelic Presence watching over the world who spoke to Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad has been speaking through Marshall for nearly three decades now.

 

[bananabrain]

so, how do the baha'i and sikhs react to you dismissing baha'ullah and guru nanak, then?

sheesh.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[radarmark]

Well, there is also Rolling Thunder, Mad Bear, Fools Crow, Black Elk, Handsome Lake... and do not forget the Tirthankaras!

 

[Vajradhara]

My encounters with Truth certainly do not appear to be something which is personal. That said, I do experience intuition which guides me counter to my thinking, and I have had certain prayers answered - although this is merely because a thought has gone out into the cosmos and has returned with a reply, it is unnecessary that a personal God be involved.

i would generally concur, my encounters with Suchness are devoid of personality, as it were. the language is cumbersome but i hope you get my meaning.

Why isn't it probable?

for precisely the same reason that it's possible the sun will not appear in the sky tomorrow yet that event is not probable.

I have noticed a lot of Westerners find Buddha intriguing exactly because he does not seem to accept God, but for me it seems he merely protects from delusions but guides you to the same place that any other religion would. Certainly, mans notion of God, with desire and jealousy and the like, is not the reality - these are human qualities - but I personally see no contradiction having been carried by Buddha to satori, then reading other texts discussing God.

the Buddha does acknowledge the existence of deities, even Maha Brahma. he denies, however, that they are the creators of the universe and are equally subject to karma and vipaka. Thomas Merton would tend to agree with your line of thinking, i would suspect, given the nature and tenor of his writings though i cannot see any particular reason nor benefit in taking the same boat across to the Other Shore.

For me, this is another example of him trying to avoid delusion, yet for me it is also the basis for a sign that Buddhism is going awry. Buddha is venerated as a God by many Buddhists, people have forgotten his fundamental clarification: you are this as well, do not worship me.

alas, this is so. i have the impression that this phenomenon arises though a lack of study of the Suttas as the Buddha makes this point time and time again throughout them. indeed, we are already Awake and Liberated we simply need to, for lack of a better term, remove the shade from our lamp.

For me, many people miss Buddha because they become identified as Buddhists, I feel like many miss this attachment, because it is Buddha who is telling them to detach from everything...

he likens his teachings to a raft used to cross a river and once we are across there is no more use for the raft. again, i feel that this is a reflection of several different things, not least of which is the lack of emphasis given to reading the Suttas for oneself.

metta,

~v

 

[Robert2011]

well... i'm of the view than an omniscient being would be able to ascertain what it is that would be sufficient evidence to me even without me knowing it in an articulable manner.

if it's about convincing ourselves well humans have a fascinating history of being able to convince themselves of just about anything that they so choose and thus i cannot really find that line of argumentation to be compelling except insofar as it demonstrates the power of the human mind.

metta,

~v

You are right, we can convince ourselves of anything. That is then confirmed by our own minds and by the minds of others. We reinforce our own confusion.

What I meant by that "something" was the Truth. We must convince ourselves of the Truth. That is what God then confirms in us through Knowledge. When we are able to enter into relationship with the Truth - to see it, know it, and act upon it.

 

[Robert2011]

i just want to know what you are alluding to if anything ?

The Teachings I am referring to are the 800+ that have been received over the past 25 years by the Messenger. They total over 9160 pages of text that have been transcribed from the spoken Revelations. To date 9 books out of 27 have been published from these Teachings. Many Teachings are available on-line also, including some that contain copies of the original spoken Voice giving the Revelations that you can listen to.

The website is newmessage dot org.

There you will find much to occupy yourself with and learn from if you are so inclined. Various chapters from the texts are also there on-line. All that is essential to humanity is Free of charge.

If you seek Truth, I would suggest investigating this...

Blessings, Robert

 

[Robert2011]

so, how do the baha'i and sikhs react to you dismissing baha'ullah and guru nanak, then?

sheesh.

b'shalom

bananabrain

I would like to add some clarification to what was said by S of K. The individuals quoted were called Messengers in the New Message Revelations. They are sent at great turning points for humanity. More of a rare occurrence.

All throughout our history there have been many others who have also received Divine guidance. Prophets, Teachers, Seers and others, some who were never recognized by history. They were guided to clarify existing understandings, deal with specific issues of that time or region. They are numerous and may encompass those listed by you and Radarmark and many others beyond those.

What is important is not so much the history lesson, but the awareness we need...Now. Our world is in trouble, we are in trouble. We need to see this and then respond to this in a manner that is powerful, wise, cooperative and unified beyond where we are now. The Revelation says time is short. We must respond soon or risk dire and long lasting consequences.

Do you know how to deal with what is here now and coming? Do you even know what is here now? Happening now?

Blessings, Robert

 

[luecy7]

God doesn’t speak. God doesn’t have any voice.

You are sure? Do you truly speak? Do you truly have a voice?

 

[Vajradhara]

You are right, we can convince ourselves of anything. That is then confirmed by our own minds and by the minds of others. We reinforce our own confusion.

What I meant by that "something" was the Truth. We must convince ourselves of the Truth. That is what God then confirms in us through Knowledge. When we are able to enter into relationship with the Truth - to see it, know it, and act upon it.

you and i, Robert, apparently operate from different paradigms for i cannot convince myself of anything like that. i am persuaded to a point of view by evidence or the lack thereof and by evidence i mean of the intersubjective sort, naturally, though i wanted to add that to clear up any misconception that you may have regarding my thoughts on the matter.

metta,

~v

 

[radarmark]

G!d speaks directly to the open heart, this is the core of all religion (almost all Religions). The G!d/d!ss does not need some individual in a trance to provide Revelation, it is all about and within us. And if your Messenger is telling you that Moses, Buddah, Jesus, and Muhammed are the only "great turning points" I would point out that your Messenger is a bit Western in outlook, dismissive of indigenous wisdom, and preaches exclusivity. I do not trust, nor can I ever accept such as the true word.