I Am That I Am

[Princely]

Speaking of seed and sowing, "Listen! A sower went out to sow. And it happened, as he sowed, that some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds of the air came and devoured it. Some fell on stony ground, where it did not have much earth; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of earth. But when the sun was up it was scorched, and because it had no root it withered away. And some seed fell among thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred." And He said to them, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" But when He was alone, those around Him with the twelve asked Him about the parable. And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, so that 'Seeing they may see and not perceive, And hearing they may hear and not understand; Lest they should turn, And their sins be forgiven them.' " And He said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? The sower sows the word. And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word's sake, immediately they stumble. Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred."

 

[Lunitik]

Do you understand what is the fruit which he intends?

The seed is significant, in another light we can say it is to be reborn which begins the process towards flowering. This is the crucifixion, for as the seed it is now dead. Yet it is also the resurrection as something more, it is becoming a plant.

Both the roots and the branches must be allowed to grow, it means you must not identify with either sin which is the roots, or righteousness which is the branches. Without either, the tree cannot grow to its potential. No quality is inherently bad, it is only how you direct it, yet many faith systems go on cutting the roots, this is why so few ever become huge trees - we can count the largest on our fingers.

Once things have come to a certain maturity, now flowers will bloom and fruit will come. It means the Kingdom of God is realized, yet you have not know it, for you deny it is within us all, it is nowhere else.

Keeping the seed in its bag, no amount of belief will create a tree.

 

[Lunitik]

My goal, and the current spiritual movement in general, is moving towards a society of huge trees, a world of Buddha's, of Christ's. It should no more be something which is glorified, but rather something which is learned from. These men are not different from you and I, the only difference is they have become trees and you remain the seed. The seed has the tree in it already, it is not much difference.

We are worried about letting the shell crack though, we fear our potential it seems - it is strange. People settle for irrelevance because at least we know what it is like as a seed, who knows what the experience of the tree is?

Only the tree has true dignity, only the tree can produce beautiful flowers. The seed is just like a stone, can it even be called alive? Many will not even say the tree is alive, but if they could experience as the tree they would know differently. Become as the tree, do not settle for being a seed!

No past teacher has been successful in this, the very proof is that you worship him instead of trusting him to crack the shell of your seed, now the world is trying something new, they are trying to crack their own shells - perhaps this can be more successful?

The internet has made this possible in large part, for we can all have access to a wide spectrum of understanding, use it to open your mind!

 

[bananabrain]

Allow your seed to flower.

is that why you keep shovelling on the manure?

incidentally, for the rest of you, it's more literally "I Will Be That Which I Will Be".

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[Etu Malku]

When Moses was chased out of Egypt, he fled to Midian where he married the firstborn daughter of Jethro and became his main sherperd. (Exo. 2:15,21; 3:1)

Let's get a few things straight here first.
Moses left twice, the firsdt time because he was wanted for murder, he went to Midian, where he became a member of the household of Jethro, the priest of Midian.

The second time, as the organizer and leader of the mass Exodus "Children of Israel". Although He never put foot on what is considered the Holy Land,

No one chased him out.

 

[Lunitik]

incidentally, for the rest of you, it's more literally "I Will Be That Which I Will Be".

You are that which is unchanging, you are already it, yet your words signify that it is somewhere in the future. If this is the direct meaning of the Torah, then I must point at the Vedas instead, for they say 'I am that I am' and it is meaningful.

"I am" is a statement of consciousness, find out who is aware of this.

 

[donnann]

You are that which is unchanging, you are already it, yet your words signify that it is somewhere in the future. If this is the direct meaning of the Torah, then I must point at the Vedas instead, for they say 'I am that I am' and it is meaningful.

"I am" is a statement of consciousness, find out who is aware of this.

I know what I could be. The thing is finding people who share my same interests but have my simular personality or compatable.

 

[Lunitik]

I know what I could be. The thing is finding people who share my same interests but have my simular personality or compatable.

Who is it that is aware of any growth you experience in life?

Who is it that longs for people that share your same interests?

Who is it that has empowered your personality?

At the very root of all this is the real you, these are all merely surface phenomena, find out who watches it all.

That is the only real you...

 

[Ben Masada]

I have studied your Kaballah stream, and they seem to disagree with you. While the Hasidic stream differs in many ways, it too shares the same mystic conclusion: know ye not that ye are gods?

We are an expression of God, but identified with that expression. Waking up - which is the meaning of Buddha - means to realize you are the one expressing you. Still, during life, this is relative, but certainly in the Catholic train of thought, at least after death you will merge with God.

This means the part ceases to remain separate from the whole, and this is what all religion must aim for - anything less restricts it to make believe.

Adonai is not God of the dead but of the living. When the Q'ohelet says that in death the spirit goes back to God, this is an embelishment of the breath of life that is taken back from the body, which had made of man a living soul. (Gen. 2:7; Eccl. 12:7) Unless you mean by merging with God after death, the eternity of death in man as compared with the eternity of life in God.
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

We may disagree, but then what is the point of Judaism? To continue serving God for all eternity? To what end? I don't see the point of it at all, and such trials to be an eternal slave!

For me, the Abrahamic notion of heaven is utterly idiotic, the only goal can be to realize you are God, you are the eternal and infinite. Anything less and I would rather death, for any distance does not suffice now that I have realized there is no separation.

Of course, the Buddhists do not call it God, they say it is Dharmakaya. It means simply the truth body, as apposed to the one you currently identify with.

The only valid religion is Truth, ideals merely console.

Yet I am not Buddhist either, for I cannot condone their repressions, their escapism, nor their strange morals relating to Karma - for instance, they will leave a man to die in a well, for they consider that if they help him and he later kills, this falls on them!

Love does not care about the consequences, nor the what ifs, for both are concerned with the future...

Love simply is, it only longs to be shared.

Truth does not even long for this, it is only love which tries to share truth. It is why truth does not suffer, it is content simply being. It is thankful that it is, and from this its joy and bliss.

Truth is the only place of peace.

That is Jerusalem, and it is found within.

All who meditate eventually find the same essence within themselves, the very source of life.

All who restrict themselves to learning find nothing.

We, in Judaism, are not of the kind that "If my belly you feed I'll adopt your creed." I mean, we do not serve God with an eye in reward or fear of punishment in the afterlife. This life is the only thing we have; and we live it to serve God Who has given it to us.
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Let's get a few things straight here first.
Moses left twice, the firsdt time because he was wanted for murder, he went to Midian, where he became a member of the household of Jethro, the priest of Midian.

The second time, as the organizer and leader of the mass Exodus "Children of Israel". Although He never put foot on what is considered the Holy Land,

No one chased him out.

Please, read Exodus 2:15. When Pharaoh heard of the affair about the Egyptian who had been killed by Moses, he sought after him to put him to death. That's when Moses was chased out of Egypt and fled to Midian. Are now things straight enough for you? Perhaps the problem is that I should have quoted Exodus 2:15 in the thread. But I hope everything is clear now.
Ben

 

[Lunitik]

Adonai is not God of the dead but of the living. When the Q'ohelet says that in death the spirit goes back to God, this is an embelishment of the breath of life that is taken back from the body, which had made of man a living soul. (Gen. 2:7; Eccl. 12:7) Unless you mean by merging with God after death, the eternity of death in man as compared with the eternity of life in God.
Ben

You simply do not know the life which comes from dying to the false, it is not meant that you wait until physical death. You must work to kill the ego that you can live in God even while walking this earth.

 

[Lunitik]

We, in Judaism, are not of the kind that "If my belly you feed I'll adopt your creed." I mean, we do not serve God with an eye in reward or fear of punishment in the afterlife. This life is the only thing we have; and we live it to serve God Who has given it to us.
Ben

I might ask you to look deeper into your mystic streams and see what it says about this - is it genuine that there is a giver and receiver? From what I have seen of the Kaballah, it is not supportable ultimately at all, it seems it teaches exactly what all other lines do: all is one.

 

[Lunitik]

The deeper you go into any stream, the more you find each is exactly the same, and how can it be at all otherwise? There is only one God, and all manifests His essence, the religions are merely a particular groups path leading the way home.

As man is becoming more and more close due to the ease of communications between the different groups in todays world, we need to be looking around and benefiting from all we encounter seeing each works to the same end. It is only ego that insists one path is greater than another, it is only identification which causes any to cling to particular figures.

We must turn to God, to the experience of Truth, and direct our loyalties entirely to that, then all who point towards it will be equally respected by everyone.

The old ways are gradually disappearing in the world today anyway, it is only a question of whether you want to embrace that. All around the world, people are no more looking at particular figures, we call this commonly the "New Age Movement" but really it is a new openness towards every tradition, a lack of clinging to anything without proof. Whether you accept it or not, this will only become bigger and bigger, it is simply that this movement offers experiences, belief cannot match it.

Religion as a way to divide peoples must die, for it means 'to re-bind', how can it possibly survive as a way to unbind? I am very happy that across all nations, this is being seen.

 

[Etu Malku]

Please, read Exodus 2:15. When Pharaoh heard of the affair about the Egyptian who had been killed by Moses, he sought after him to put him to death. That's when Moses was chased out of Egypt and fled to Midian. Are now things straight enough for you? Perhaps the problem is that I should have quoted Exodus 2:15 in the thread. But I hope everything is clear now.
Ben

You can quote all you want from scripture, I'll rely on historically evidenced books written by historical scholars.

Moses was wanted for murder, he fled. Comprehend?

 

[radarmark]

Modern textual and source biblical criticism are on the luciferian's side, in this case.

 

[Ben Masada]

You simply do not know the life which comes from dying to the false, it is not meant that you wait until physical death. You must work to kill the ego that you can live in God even while walking this earth.

This, according to Christian fundamentalism, is what they mean by being born again. And according to Judaism is to exercise constrain of one's emotions.
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

I might ask you to look deeper into your mystic streams and see what it says about this - is it genuine that there is a giver and receiver? From what I have seen of the Kaballah, it is not supportable ultimately at all, it seems it teaches exactly what all other lines do: all is one.

Oh! My mystic streams! Interesting that I had the very same thought about what you are trying to convey: Mysticism. Besides, I have no participation with Kaballah.
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

The deeper you go into any stream, the more you find each is exactly the same, and how can it be at all otherwise? There is only one God, and all manifests His essence, the religions are merely a particular groups path leading the way home.

As man is becoming more and more close due to the ease of communications between the different groups in todays world, we need to be looking around and benefiting from all we encounter seeing each works to the same end. It is only ego that insists one path is greater than another, it is only identification which causes any to cling to particular figures.

We must turn to God, to the experience of Truth, and direct our loyalties entirely to that, then all who point towards it will be equally respected by everyone.

The old ways are gradually disappearing in the world today anyway, it is only a question of whether you want to embrace that. All around the world, people are no more looking at particular figures, we call this commonly the "New Age Movement" but really it is a new openness towards every tradition, a lack of clinging to anything without proof. Whether you accept it or not, this will only become bigger and bigger, it is simply that this movement offers experiences, belief cannot match it.

Religion as a way to divide peoples must die, for it means 'to re-bind', how can it possibly survive as a way to unbind? I am very happy that across all nations, this is being seen.

I do agree with you here that religion as a way to divide peoples must die. In the same breath, I would like to let you know that Judaism is more of a way of life than a religion per se. At least, that's as far as I am concerned.
Ben

 

[Lunitik]

This, according to Christian fundamentalism, is what they mean by being born again. And according to Judaism is to exercise constrain of one's emotions.
Ben

It is what is intended, yet most seem to believe they are born again simply by believing in Jesus, there is a lack of any particular effort towards this end because they think just an acceptance is enough it seems. In this I can certainly commend the Kabalists, and yet still I feel they are misled.

The point is not constraint, it is to not become identified with them, but trying to fight with them you will encounter all sorts of problems. There are many practices which are required of the Jewish mystic, but fundamentally they miss the inquiry "who is the practitioner?". Of course, there are many examples of these practices being effective, but it seems to me in both cases that it is almost by accident that they work...

If a farmer plants one hundred trees, and only two deliver fruit, can we say anything positive about the gardener? It seems the trees have come to provide proof almost despite the gardener, not because of.

I do not wish to offend, but it is my desire to bring the traditions closer together that they can learn from each other. For me, the success rates show plenty of room for improvement, and given a world which is much smaller, there is no reason why we cannot collaborate collectively on bettering the situation. I do not see how maintaining ideas of separation and clinging to the old ways can help in bringing people to Self Realization. For me, it seems this is merely a stubbornness to maintain a particular barrier which really has no worth.