What is the essence of all religions?

Lunitik said:
Certainly he has had some insights that should not be ignored, but for me they seem accidental - which is no less meaningful. If you cannot look at yourself, how can your conclusions about others be valid? Especially in a field like psychology, the cigar example I believe I raised earlier is very suspect.

He has not actually cured anyone, just coming up with theories about what could be wrong...
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My favorite Jung quote:

"Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you."

{I even have that as a footer on my e-mail}
 
Etu Malku said:
The Shadow Self is what we project onto others, parts of our Self that we despise and hate. I explained Jung properly and actually quoted from His writings, so Jung would have to be explaining Jung wrong then. ;)
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There is no Self, if you disagree please show me the Self.

Jung is just wrong himself, his whole approach is utterly stupid because you cannot fix a person by telling them why they're screwed up. Going into the past and seeing what has caused particular hangups, it does nothing but justifies the hangup. This is the whole approach of his psychoanalysis though.
 
seattlegal said:
My favorite Jung quote:

"Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you."

{I even have that as a footer on my e-mail}
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Jung was probably quoting a Swami he met in India.

Jung loved, admired & even propagated Yoga in all it's glory.

Jung and Indian Thought
by Pravrajika Vrajaprana

Jung and Indian Thought

As a footnote we can add that the end of Jung's life was graced with transformative spiritual experiences that left him a changed man: "I would never have imagined that any such experience was possible," he later wrote a close colleague. "I have never since entirely freed myself of the impression that this life is a segment of existence which is entirely acted in a three-dimensional boxlike universe set up for it." These experiences-which included the vision of a Hindu yogi-were accompanied by "an incomparable, indescribable feeling of eternal bliss, such as I never could have imagined as being within the reach of human consciousness." Not long before his death, Jung appeared on the BBC television series "Face to Face." When asked whether he believed in God, Jung replied with great intensity, "I know. I don't need to believe. I know."
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Jung must of had an Oppenheimer moment.
By the carrot or the stick ---we get 15 minutes of famous Oppenheimer moment.
 
Lunitik said:
There is no Self, if you disagree please show me the Self.
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The self as I, is the subjective knower, and the self as Me, is the object that is known.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology_of_self#cite_note-0 Both make up the whole Self.

This Self can be seen as one of several different archetypes and unifies our consciousness and unconsciousness.

There are two centers of the personality. The ego is the center of conscious identity, whereas the Self is the center of the total personality—including consciousness, the unconscious, and the ego. The Self is both the whole and the center. While the ego is a self-contained little circle off the center contained within the whole.

Our Subjective Universe is this Self and it is ALL of the universe and includes our Objective Universe within it.
 
Etu Malku said:
The self as I, is the subjective knower, and the self as Me, is the object that is known.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology_of_self#cite_note-0 Both make up the whole Self.

This Self can be seen as one of several different archetypes and unifies our consciousness and unconsciousness.

There are two centers of the personality. The ego is the center of conscious identity, whereas the Self is the center of the total personality—including consciousness, the unconscious, and the ego. The Self is both the whole and the center. While the ego is a self-contained little circle off the center contained within the whole.

Our Subjective Universe is this Self and it is ALL of the universe and includes our Objective Universe within it.
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False, for the I is also observable, there is no difference between I and me other than direction.

The enlightened man draws back from both seeing that he is not that which claims these things, he has merely observed the claims. He sees that neither the I nor the me nor the mine is existential, and because of this he detaches from these illusions.

The enlightened man is one who realizes himself as merely the watcher of everything else which can be observed, yet you can also watch the watcher, this is the nature of satori - awareness turns back on itself and thus knows itself, this is the nature of the experience of oneness. It is not possible to explain what is experienced here, which is why those who have simply try to bring you to it.

It is not even valid to call it an experience, because there is no experiencer.
 
Lunitik said:
...Life is only this moment, it is only this place, it cannot be anywhere else.

You are an expression of life, make it a beautiful expression!

Sitting, doing nothing, spring comes and the grass grows by itself.

It means things are perfectly fine without you, just enjoy it all. With a little less involvement, you will not be so stressed about everything, you will simply bring your love into them.
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Beautifully put, Lunitik! :)
I needed to hear this - thank you.
Lately, I've felt so stressed about how screwed up this world is. I realize that I'm not perfect & I'm doing my own soul searching to find all kinds of unpleasant things. I feel the need to change things - to wake people up before we have another September 11, and before more suffer because of ignor-ance.

Yet, I need to balance my passion for trying to change the world, with changing myself, & loving myself. And if I weren't here... life would go on!
 
NiceCupOfTea said:
how patronising to the billions of Christians on the planet.

what makes you so superior that you judge so many in this way ?
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I didn't mean to be patronizing - I've been Christian most of my life - still am, but I believe true Christianity, not the warped version handed down by corrupt men after corrupt men, who killed many & did other evils, in the name of Jesus.

Jesus did not teach others to worship him... "Why callest thou me good... None are good, save God." Jesus patronized those of the predominant religion for seeking after external things when the experience of God (& of anything) is WITHIN us...

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them & said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." -Luke 17:20,21
 
Lunitik said:
She has repeated something I have said, if you'd like to get into it I would be more than willing... although, certainly she should not cling to me any more than any other religion. Truth is within, I will not be a source of her truth, only she can be - I can only try to assist her going in.
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Don't worry, Lunitik.
You've helped me most by showing love & concern.
But I know not to trust you, or anyone more than principles I've learned through common sense, others' teachings & personal experience.

I do think we are definitely on the same page about one thing:
That the experience of God is within us, not external.
 
Persona said:
I know not to trust you, or anyone more than ... personal experience.
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Please make this your measuring stick!

Be open to whatsoever you come across, because there is probably a reason you have come across it. Try what is said and see whether it seems applicable to you, if not it can be safely discarded.

The key really is to keep going deeper into yourself, even things you currently don't believe you may discover are quite valid down the road.

Seek authentically, free from pre-conceived notions!
 
NiceCupOfTea said:
what makes you so superior that you judge so many in this way ?
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I've been thinking about this more, NiceCup.
I do tend to judge others and sometimes feel superior because I've learned things they haven't learned yet. I need to get over this. Generally, I don't look down to my kids like that - because I have hope in them learning & maybe I feel empowered by how, what & when they learn.

I feel a little frustrated with many around me. I was raised in a cult (Mormonism) and many around me try to preach to me, make me feel inferior because I question evil like how their church leaders hide money & steal from the poor. Maybe I'm reacting how they are, by this frustration. But please understand my underlying motive is to connect, to feel connected. I miss that. It's hard to connect when 2 see things so differently. Maybe I need to focus more on what's common & less on differences. Yet, I see, as I've read, that many of these traditional beliefs cause mental illness & racial prejudice... basically unhealthy perspectives. I have a passion for teaching, but as you pointed out, I need to do so in a more positive way - more patiently hopeful & respectful.
 
Persona said:
I didn't mean to be patronizing - I've been Christian most of my life - still am, but I believe true Christianity, not the warped version handed down by corrupt men after corrupt men, who killed many & did other evils, in the name of Jesus.

Jesus did not teach others to worship him... "Why callest thou me good... None are good, save God." Jesus patronized those of the predominant religion for seeking after external things when the experience of God (& of anything) is WITHIN us...

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them & said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." -Luke 17:20,21
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wel the various churches are human institutions and flawed as we all are.

the Bible does refer to the worship of Jesus, whether he taught that though who knows really.

Matt. 2:2,11 - the magi who came to see the newborn Jesus came to worship Him.

Matt. 8:2 - a leper came to Jesus and worshiped Him without rebuke.

Luke 24:52 - as Jesus ascended into heaven, the apostles worshiped Him.

John 9:38 - the blind man who was cured by Jesus worshiped Him.

Matt. 14:33 - the apostles who were in the boat worshiped Jesus without rebuke.

Matt. 28:9 - Jesus' disciples took His feet and worshiped Him without rebuke.

Matt. 28:17 - Jesus' disciples saw Him and then worshiped Him.

Mark 5:6 - the man with the unclean spirit ran to Jesus and worshiped Him.

John 20:28 - Jesus accepts Thomas' statement
"My Lord and my God!"
 
Persona said:
I've been thinking about this more, NiceCup.
I do tend to judge others and sometimes feel superior because I've learned things they haven't learned yet. I need to get over this. Generally, I don't look down to my kids like that - because I have hope in them learning & maybe I feel empowered by how, what & when they learn.

I feel a little frustrated with many around me. I was raised in a cult (Mormonism) and many around me try to preach to me, make me feel inferior because I question evil like how their church leaders hide money & steal from the poor. Maybe I'm reacting how they are, by this frustration. But please understand my underlying motive is to connect, to feel connected. I miss that. It's hard to connect when 2 see things so differently. Maybe I need to focus more on what's common & less on differences. Yet, I see, as I've read, that many of these traditional beliefs cause mental illness & racial prejudice... basically unhealthy perspectives. I have a passion for teaching, but as you pointed out, I need to do so in a more positive way - more patiently hopeful & respectful.
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ah ok I understand where you are coming from, some brands of religion are pretty poisonous so easy to become bitter about it, I do it myself.
 
Originally Posted by Etu Malku
The self as I, is the subjective knower, and the self as Me, is the object that is known. Both make up the whole Self.

This Self can be seen as one of several different archetypes and unifies our consciousness and unconsciousness.

There are two centers of the personality. The ego is the center of conscious identity, whereas the Self is the center of the total personality—including consciousness, the unconscious, and the ego. The Self is both the whole and the center. While the ego is a self-contained little circle off the center contained within the whole.

Our Subjective Universe is this Self and it is ALL of the universe and includes our Objective Universe within it.
Click to expand...
Lunitik said:
False, for the I is also observable, there is no difference between I and me other than direction.
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I didn't say it wasn't observable, of course it, since it houses ALL that we are.

The enlightened man draws back from both seeing that he is not that which claims these things, he has merely observed the claims. He sees that neither the I nor the me nor the mine is existential, and because of this he detaches from these illusions.
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None of these are illusions, they simply are. If you need to attach a label to them such as illusion or delusion in order for you comprehend them fully, you have yet to step into the Light.

The enlightened man is one who realizes himself as merely the watcher of everything else which can be observed, yet you can also watch the watcher, this is the nature of satori - awareness turns back on itself and thus knows itself, this is the nature of the experience of oneness. It is not possible to explain what is experienced here, which is why those who have simply try to bring you to it.
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The enlightened part (if you must label it) is simply our Essence, our "I" it is this which observes the whole of us from afar, that has enabled us to Become.
 
Mythology is full of "I" creating itself into the objective universe.

It has been called the "Word" in the Judeo-Christian Bible, Hindu Scriptures call it Naad and Shruti, Persian scriptures Sraosha, Kalma in Muslim scriptures, ‘the Sonorous Light' in Buddhism, Naam or Shabd by the Sikhs, in Patanjali Yoga Darshan, and Madam Blavatsky and the Theosophists call it ‘the Voice of Silence'.

Call it whatever you like, it is Us as a god physically manifesting our Self ("I") into lower vibrations and into an observable objective universe ("ME").
 
I, too, am stumped. Searched through my on-line texts and the only thing I found was an obscure reference by Lafcadio Hern to a Chinese Buddhist creation story. Your two references (which are clearly not related) are all I found even close to the term. I found nada in the Pali Canon.
 
seattlegal said:
Never heard of it. I have heard of sonorous chanting of the paritta, or the pirit ceremony, which is popular in Sri Lanka.

I call it magical thinking
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Thats pretty cool. As above so below. However I believe that the oneness of above and below is what is to be attained at a spirit level to progress in enlightenment and leads towards final resurrection. I call this the crytal light because its all 5 elements as one source element as a spirit element, your own highest self or should I more accurately put it your center self.
 
donnann said:
Thats pretty cool. As above so below. However I believe that the oneness of above and below is what is to be attained at a spirit level to progress in enlightenment and leads towards final resurrection. I call this the crytal light because its all 5 elements as one source element as a spirit element, your own highest self or should I more accurately put it your center self.
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Correction: Crystal Light.
 
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