Happiness

Speaking spiritually, He (or It, however you determine the Deity) is the Light, which is why I always challenge the 'Christ in me' attitude, again indicates a sense of ownership or possession, a materialist/consumerist attitude, rather than 'Me in Christ' which offers everything and asks for nothing.

Quite the contrary, it asks that you retain distinction, you have not yet dropped all notion of self to live in Christ fully. I make a distinction between Jesus and Christ for this reason, for me, Jesus is simply an example but Christ represents the mind he took on when the Spirit entered him - for lack of better phrasing. For me, the Apostles have failed to fully let go into Christ, for they still cling to the man and from this has come such disgusting concepts as blood being something redeeming. For me, this has led to much emphasis being placed on the cross and death in general but simply misses the point.

There is only one Son of God, yet this is Christ or the Holy Spirit, it is not Jesus specifically. We encounter Son-ship in the mystical experiences many have, but still it is not a complete integration - for me, Christianity lacks much in the process of integration though, it doesn't even seem to be a topic of discussion for the Church.

Instead of all this, and why I personally do not like to be around Christians, is the whole emphasis is on Judgment Day and this makes me sick. Jesus himself says even he doesn't know the time, and warns not to prepare any words at that time, then why is it something which is so emphasized? It is I think the best outlet for expressing and taking advantage of fear, the chief instrument of manipulation. I often wonder how popular Abrahamic Faiths would be today without this basic fear manipulation, how many souls would gravitate towards these branches purely for what is said through them?

I do not think the canonical scriptures say much when compared to branches of truth like Buddhism, and with the exception of Jesus, I personally cannot call a single figure in the line beautiful - with the exception of Muhammad for the simple reason he has been the shelter of the Sufi's, basically Gnostics under a new guise after what happened with the Church. For me, the God represented in the Torah and Quran is simply disgusting, and followers of these must simply be blind to the contents. Of course, it is fully consistent with notions of fearing God, but a God that needs to use fear to bring people to him is no God at all.
 
I thought you were all for gurus and masters, at least you said so at one time. Given that, what is the difference between what you meant and what I meant. For me Chr!st Jesus (some D!vine spark within which illuminates my dark eyes) is with me always.

This spark is with me also, yet it is your mind which insists it is Jesus.

The Guru is only to help you go in, to ease your fears about whether it is even possible, but a dead Guru will not help - this is the greatest idiocy of religion today!

Approaching a living master, already your mind begins to blank, just drinking from his energy you begin to transcend the mind. Still it remains your journey in though, he is simply providing a push. No true Guru will insist he is something special, precisely because he knows you are not unlike him.

All too often, man accepts men that remove his dignity, that make him dependent. It is a crime in my eyes, but it is why so few in the world climb to such heights. The masses believe the enlightened ego's, they do not even notice the genuinely enlightened ones.
 
Too bad mahavira and Gautama and Hui-Neng all seem to disagree (and Osho, but he is nopt in that category). They say the best master is a passed-over master... where did you get this stuff from?
 
Too bad mahavira and Gautama and Hui-Neng all seem to disagree (and Osho, but he is nopt in that category). They say the best master is a passed-over master... where did you get this stuff from?

Mahavir is said to have refused even the help of a god that he attain without dependency to ensure it is not taken away.

Buddha speaks a great deal about the greatness of going your own way as well, and his final words are often quoted as being "be a light unto yourself".

Hui-Neng I have not encountered, but if he has said this I cannot forgive him.

Osho certainly is utterly against dead masters, saying they can only drag you backwards to their time, he says that even if you go to a master it is not to learn something, it is to drink of him.

What assistance can a dead master bring? I honor all past masters but they cannot address our needs, they have spoken to an ancient people about ancient things, they are barely even relevant today except that we still cling. I question whether you have even been around a true master if you cannot tell why they will be more beneficial - without doing anything, simply being open to their presence, already you begin to be transformed. The dead master is just a thought in your head, he has long left this world.

The very presence of a true master kills all thoughts, you will have to fight to hold on to them but you would be foolish to do so.
 
Should this topic be made into a thread?

How do you understand the concept of loving another as one loves himself?


Does not "impersonal***" salvation end the existence of Loving an another?

***[vs meeting God face-to-face as per thiest school's of tradition]

"Un-gratefullness" is a type of renunciation ---yet we can see the way it affects one's personality,
Bhaktajan
 
Should this topic be made into a thread?




Does not "impersonal***" salvation end the existence of Loving an another?

***[vs meeting God face-to-face as per thiest school's of tradition]

"Un-gratefullness" is a type of renunciation ---yet we can see the way it affects one's personality,
Bhaktajan
I think meeting god face to face you end up meeting your other half , seeing him in his face. Everyone has an opposite , every female has a male counterpart. Aloneness is not the way we are meant to be or live. its not natural.
 
Quite the contrary, it asks that you retain distinction, you have not yet dropped all notion of self to live in Christ fully.
I rather view it as, without Christ, I would not exist at all (nor, indeed, would anything).

Before you hurry to shrug off all that you are, you might pause to consider why you are, in the first place.

Because Christ exists, I can say "I am".

There is only one Son of God, yet this is Christ or the Holy Spirit, it is not Jesus specifically.
How little you understand ...

Instead of all this, and why I personally do not like to be around Christians, is the whole emphasis is on Judgment Day and this makes me sick. Jesus himself says even he doesn't know the time, and warns not to prepare any words at that time, then why is it something which is so emphasised?
Ah Lunitik — how wrong can you be? I can think of half a dozen parables ... the wise and unwise virgins, for a start ...

You make the classic error of the soudbite-reader, latching on to the bit that grabs your attention, the bit that seems to confirm all your presuppositions, and you ignore what comes next ...

Indeed Our Lord said no-one knows the time ... but ...
"Watch ye therefore, because ye know not what hour your Lord will come. But know this ye, that if the goodman of the house knew at what hour the thief would come, he would certainly watch, and would not suffer his house to be broken open. Wherefore be you also ready, because at what hour you know not the Son of man will come." (Matthew 24:42-44)
So no doubt Christ makes you sick too, because He bangs on about it more than we do, believe me.

And hey — oh illumined one — I thought you were beyond likes and dislikes? Seems to me you're full of the same prejudices, the same ignorance, and the same crap as those you scorn.

And hey — here's a secret for you — we're not that impressed with you, either. You've got a lot to say for someone who hasn't got a clue what they're talking about.

It's a good job you've never met Christ ... He was quite caustic with the blind who declared themselves to be the light, and He was devastatingly critical of those who sought to lead others into their own darkness.

I pray one day you see the light, but until then, I shall follow the lesson of my Master, and I 'shake the dust off my shoes' ... I am gone.

God bless,

Thomas
 
I so appreciate the post... the 'becoming as a child' is very important, as are the Pauline examples.

If one continues to breathe, then tacitly one is either in the processes of creation-revelation-redemption

In regards to the "MAHA-MANTRA":

It is understood that a prayer invokes the munificence of God's mercy ---so God's Name is NON-Different from his actual transcendent self ---this is the trait of being Absolute-Eternale.

So please take note of the mood that Bhaktivedanta Swami instructs as the traditional sensibility that must be adopted.

So in a non-sectarian approach, any of the names of God will work as a mantra or prayer.

But here is the Maha-Mantra as explained by a bonefide orthodox Vaishnava Hindu Swami, when he was 70 years old, in approx 1966.

Below is the famous opening statement on a audio record album produced by George Harrison of the Beatles:

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Krsna consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived.

As explained on the cover of the record album, this transcendental vibration–by chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare–is the sublime method for reviving our Krsna consciousness.

As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our asociation with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now poluted by material atmosphere. In this polluted concept of life, we are all trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in our complexities.

This illusion is called maya, or hard struggle for existence over the stringent laws of material nature. This illusory struggle against the material nature can at once be stopped by revival of our Krsna consciousness.

Krsna consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived. And the process is recommended by authorities for this age.

By practical experience also, we can perceive that by chanting this maha-mantra, or the Great Chanting for Deliverance, one can at once feel transcendental ecstasy from the spiritual stratum. When one is factually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind and intelligence, one is situated on the transcendental plane.

This chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is directly enacted from the spiritual platform, surpassing all lower states of consciousness–namely sensual, mental and intellectual.

There is no need of understanding the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this maha-mantra. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration, without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy.

We have seen it practically. Even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it. The chanting should be hears, however, from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that immediate effect can be achieved. As far as possible, chanting from the lips of a nondevotee should be avoided, as much as milk touched by the lips of a serpent causes poisonous effect.

The word Hara is a form of addressing the energy of the Lord. Both Krsna and Rama are forms of addressing directly the Lord, and they mena ” the highest pleasure, eternal.” Hara is the supreme pleasure potency of the Lord. This potency, when addressed are Hare, helps us in reaching the Supreme Lord.

The material energy, called as maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities are described as superior energy than matter. When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara,it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity.

The three words, namely Hara, Krsna and Rama, are transcendental seeds of the maha-mantra, and the chanting is a spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy, Hara, for giving protection to the conditioned soul.

The chanting is exactly like a genuine cry by the child for the mother. Mother Hara helps in achieving the grace of the supreme father, Hari, or Krsna, and the Lord reveals Himself to such a sincere devotee.

No other means, therefore, of spiritual realization is as effective in this age, as chanting the maha-mantra, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Srila Prabhupada On Chanting Hare Krishna (MP3 Audio) | Hare Krishna Community
 
I think meeting god face to face you end up meeting your other half , seeing him in his face. Everyone has an opposite , every female has a male counterpart. Aloneness is not the way we are meant to be or live. its not natural.


Why do people insist that:

"God May or May Not exist"

Yet on the other hand --- Why do people insist that they are persons that exist ---"In Their Own Right"?
God is eternal. This present lifetime is a Flash in the Pan nano-second to the minus negative billion.

Actually it can be approximately calculated How large God is, according to the Vedic calculations.

If God stood stood next to us ---it would be revealed that our relative size to God would make us out to be a singular micro-scopic bit of dust.

God made dust out of His own potency.

God has a name, fame, form, personality. paraphenalia, entourage & pastimes.

God is not like our petty hapless selves lost in space and time.
 
Hi friend —
I so appreciate the post...
I so appreciate the comment that triggered the response.

In the tradition, the idea is not that creation started then, and then this happened, and then that happened, and then ...

Rather, it's a dynamic continuum ...

Every moment is a new creation,
Every moment can be new, or old, depending upon how we relate to it.

Every moment, the angel announces His indwelling presence
Every moment He is born in the soul
Every moment we condemn Him to the Cross
Every moment He says 'forgive them'
Every moment, He stands before His father and says:
"Abba, I love you, you love me, we love them, but jeez, I've lost count of the number of times and the different ways I've tried to show them that, and do they get the message? Do they ... "

And Abba says:
"Feed my sheep"

And the Holy Spirit says:
"Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls. For my yoke is sweet and my burden light." (Matthew 11:29-30)

And every blinkin', bloomin' moment we say:
"It's OK, I can do it myself, thanks."

God bless, my friend.

Thomas
 
Hi friend —

I so appreciate the comment that triggered the response.

In the tradition, the idea is not that creation started then, and then this happened, and then that happened, and then ...

Rather, it's a dynamic continuum ...

Every moment is a new creation,
Every moment can be new, or old, depending upon how we relate to it.

Every moment, the angel announces His indwelling presence
Every moment He is born in the soul
Every moment we condemn Him to the Cross
Every moment He says 'forgive them'
Every moment, He stands before His father and says:
"Abba, I love you, you love me, we love them, but jeez, I've lost count of the number of times and the different ways I've tried to show them that, and do they get the message? Do they ... "

And Abba says:
"Feed my sheep"

And the Holy Spirit says:
"Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls. For my yoke is sweet and my burden light." (Matthew 11:29-30)

And every blinkin', bloomin' moment we say:
"It's OK, I can do it myself, thanks."

God bless, my friend.

Thomas

People are in the image of so like little angels but not angels. So I guess I understand where your coming from. I believe that the angels that each person is like precides over each person during their lifetime.
 
Why do people insist that:

"God May or May Not exist"

Yet on the other hand --- Why do people insist that they are persons that exist ---"In Their Own Right"?
God is eternal. This present lifetime is a Flash in the Pan nano-second to the minus negative billion.

Actually it can be approximately calculated How large God is, according to the Vedic calculations.

If God stood stood next to us ---it would be revealed that our relative size to God would make us out to be a singular micro-scopic bit of dust.

God made dust out of His own potency.

God has a name, fame, form, personality. paraphenalia, entourage & pastimes.

God is not like our petty hapless selves lost in space and time.

Depends on how big each of us really are. Final resurrection reveals that but yes in the present form the earth is but a speck of dust compared to gods size let alone a person.
 
I rather view it as, without Christ, I would not exist at all (nor, indeed, would anything).

Jesus says he has no glory, no authority outside the father, why do the Christians glorify him? He is absolutely nothing without God, yet you direct your gratitude towards another created man, another arising in source, and a man who says he is absolutely a slave, that he doesn't even act of his own accord, but that it is the father working through him. There are many examples of the absolute irrelevance of this man, but the Christians have missed it.

At least turn to God directly instead of this simple bamboo, even if you have chosen Jesus as your favorite enlightened one. For me, he is the most submissive sheep that has ever lived, but to call him a shepard is laughable. I can feel for his tribulation, but there are better teachers than him.

I thought you were beyond likes and dislikes?

Words are necessarily dualistic, one day you will understand this.
 
Thomas--
You would like "Star of Redemption". The author had left Orthodox Judaism and very nearly became a Catholic because of his being so influenced by Existentialism (long story).

Rosenzweig creates a star of G!d, World, and Man (on the upright triagle) and Creation, Revelation, and Redemption. All three (in his work) are ever-present. G!d Creates World, Reveals H!mself to Man, and then Man must Redeem World (and himself).

You can probably find pretty good references so you do not have to read the book (the new translation is very good). It is the process that is so interesting to me (very parallel to your post).
 
"Watch ye therefore, because ye know not what hour your Lord will come. But know this ye, that if the goodman of the house knew at what hour the thief would come, he would certainly watch, and would not suffer his house to be broken open. Wherefore be you also ready, because at what hour you know not the Son of man will come." (Matthew 24:42-44)
So no doubt Christ makes you sick too, because He bangs on about it more than we do, believe me.

It would seem that. as I have learnt, that we must become expert in spiritual life . . . long before DEATH comes. Lest we fail utterly the final examination. Failure means repeating the semester again . . . and maybe . . . again and again.

OTOH, there's plenty of time --- As Robert Oppenheimer famously cited, "As Vishnu says in the Bhagavad-gita, 'Time I amd destroyer of all'".

We never know when death will come ---so, we must prepare the way for the Lord ---as a practice in ettiquette and devotion.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

BTW, Will "Jesus Christ Superstar" make a renewed popular resurgence?


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT:

A novice must check that a lesson checks with three authorities [as is injoined in the Vedas]:
One's Mentor (aka, Guru)
One's Mentor peers (aka, Sadhus)
The text books (aka, scripture)

We should heed the honest welwishing advise of of senior mentors ---that is what makes for an accomplished student.

If all around you are pronouncing the Instructions of Guru, Sadhu, sastra ---it is imperative to self-reflect the life-guard's whistle.

And hey — oh illumined one — I thought you were beyond likes and dislikes? Seems to me you're full of the same prejudices, the same ignorance, and the same crap as those you scorn.

And hey — here's a secret for you — we're not that impressed with you, either. You've got a lot to say for someone who hasn't got a clue what they're talking about.
 
Back
Top