On What are your Religious Beliefs Based?

Nothing if not predictable... Seems we should have a garden for Ben and Joe declare repeatedly that they have logic on their side.

Interfaith, what does that mean to you?
 
Please don't put Ben and Joe in the same corner, I don't think that's fair. I don't think either of them follow the precepts of interfaith as you and I see it, but one of them actually listens to what we have to say.

And I don't think Truth works like that, DA, a Truth can exist without anyone knowing about it. You and I prescribe to the Truth that there is no Truth despite other people not agreeing with us.
 
wil said:
Nothing if not predictable... Seems we should have a garden for Ben and Joe declare repeatedly that they have logic on their side.

Interfaith, what does that mean to you?
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To me, interfaith means the chance to learn from one another; you express your views and I mine. We discuss each other's views and learn what we still do not know.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
Sigh. There is no One Truth for the simple reason that nobody can agree on what that One is! Everyone has their own version of the One. By definition there can not be a One if everyone has a different version of the One.
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I do not agree with you. Again, Jesus said in John 17:17 that the Truth is the Word of God. Prophet Isaiah says that if we do not speak according to the Law and the Prophets, it means, we don't have the Truth. (Isa. 8:20) The Truth is one and there is no more than one. Therefore, there is no such a thing as my truth and your truth; his truth or her truth. Any one who diverges from the method exposed by Prophet Isaiah, just does not have the truth but something based on his or her preconceived notions. For instance, Jesus spoke according to the Truth as he made it very sure in Mat. 5:17-19. We all, Christians and non-Christians know and agree that Jesus was a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism. It means that Judaism is the Truth as the Law and the Prophets are concerned.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
Please don't put Ben and Joe in the same corner, I don't think that's fair. I don't think either of them follow the precepts of interfaith as you and I see it, but one of them actually listens to what we have to say.

And I don't think Truth works like that, DA, a Truth can exist without anyone knowing about it. You and I prescribe to the Truth that there is no Truth despite other people not agreeing with us.
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Would you enlighten me with what you mean by "the precepts of interfaith?" You seem to convey that the one who reads about your views is supposed to accept what you say to be observing what you mean by "the precepts of interfaith." And I do not agree that there is no Truth as I don't find possible that a society or community be raised and sustained on no-truths.
 
RE: #25
...but not everyone subscribes to Christianity or Judaism and of those that do, not all interpret the scripture in the same way.
 
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Shibolet said:
To me, interfaith means the chance to learn from one another; you express your views and I mine. We discuss each other's views and learn what we still do not know.
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While not quite....but that would be a huge step in the right direction. What have you learned? Whose views have you been discussing? It is obviously a blind side with me, I see you posting what you think about what other people believe... I don't often see you in actual discussion, just pointing out how Christians have it wrong.
 
Shibolet said:
Would you enlighten me with what you mean by "the precepts of interfaith?" You seem to convey that the one who reads about your views is supposed to accept what you say to be observing what you mean by "the precepts of interfaith." And I do not agree that there is no Truth as I don't find possible that a society or community be raised and sustained on no-truths.
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No not really, I don't feel you ever listen to what I have to say and you have a fundamental, unchangeable and different view of faith and interfaith from me. There is no room for exchange between us.
 
Shibolet said:
I do not agree with you. Again, Jesus said in John 17:17 that the Truth is the Word of God. Prophet Isaiah says that if we do not speak according to the Law and the Prophets, it means, we don't have the Truth. (Isa. 8:20) The Truth is one and there is no more than one. Therefore, there is no such a thing as my truth and your truth; his truth or her truth. Any one who diverges from the method exposed by Prophet Isaiah, just does not have the truth but something based on his or her preconceived notions. For instance, Jesus spoke according to the Truth as he made it very sure in Mat. 5:17-19. We all, Christians and non-Christians know and agree that Jesus was a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism. It means that Judaism is the Truth as the Law and the Prophets are concerned.
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I am the one who worked out the principles and method of telepathic communication. I needed to have a fairly good knowledge of psychology and world history, physics and chemistry helped, so there has been a pretty good preparation before I could get on with it.
I have established that we all have telepathy although most are not aware of it. By telepathy we are able to communicate with those no longer living on Earth, Jesus among them.
What truly amazes me about Jesus, is that two thousand years ago he became aware of his telepathy, that he could indeed communicate with those not then living on Earth. Today he is what we usually think of as God (I can just hear Moslems and Hindus howl). Not in the sense we think of God as an omnipotent, Omnipresent angry old man, but one who can hear your telepathic calls, address your issues and advise you on them in your best interest. Two thousand years ago Jesus may not have been quite able to articulate what he knew and even if he had, who would have believed him. He had to stay on the intellectual level of his contemporaries.
 
wil said:
I see you posting what you think about what other people believe... I don't often see you in actual discussion, just pointing out how Christians have it wrong.
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LOL! Ironically ...
 
I don't get why we have to keep bouncing back to a discussion on what interfaith is. I'm pretty sure that regardless of the "Definition" people come here to talk about their respective religions/world views and compare/contrast in a mostly peaceful manner. I see nothing wrong with this, so why do we keep bouncing back. Do I think ACOT has the whole truth, No. Is it possible he may know part, absolutely. Same with each and every poster here. Do I know all truth? No, if I did, I would be Allah. No prophet claimed to be the Whole Truth or to know the Whole truth. Only what the Creator told them. Can we please quit sidetracking based on definitions of 1 word so we can all just learn each other's perspectives as we all intended when we came here? Shib believes he is right, same as each and everyone else here. He states his point and leaves it (sometimes condescending, but nonetheless states his point)

Now on to comments,
Wil, I absolutely have logic on my side. I have no reason to think otherwise. As I stated it is my view that I am attempting to stay on the right path under the guidance of the Creator (Allah, Elo, Elohim, Jehovah, God, whatever your name you prefer to call him). If I am following his guidance, to a known non true path, would I follow willingly? Now If you would like to debate on me on the validity of my argument, please make a debate thread elsewhere and we can discuss it. The Title "On What are your Religious Beliefs Based?" was answered already, and I cannot see why you want to argue that point then say my answer is not applicable to interfaith.

DA,
If there was no 1 truth because noone can agree on what that is, then what is your definition of truth? A true path? If there was not a true path then there is no false path or wrong path either. Anything is valid. In that case, what deters you from committing crimes such as rape, murder, etc? you could say morality, but in the scenario you paint where there is no truth or true path, someone could easily argue that there is no legit reason not to commit these atrocities. In a way, Rape increases population, murder can eliminate problems (such as overpopulation). So your conclusion exists only as an argument that you are correct without basis.

ACOT,
I'm not sure which of us you think listens, but either way it doesn't matter. I've already described my feelings of the definition of Interfaith.

Shib,
I understand your argument, IMO Jesus cannot be God anymore than anyone else. I also believe the True Path was preached by all the prophets of Judaism and Christianity. And that over time both Christianity and Judaism were corrupted or at least lost in some of their truth. Isaiah's statement is absolutely true IMHO. But even today Jews do not adhere to the law exactly as it was recorded due to changes in social norms. Also there is reason to believe much of the Jewish scriptures have simply been lost. And of course the issue of Jesus. IF you do not accept him as a prophet because of whatever reason, can that same reason be applied to a previous prophet that is accepted. My guess is yes. But it is not my place to tell you what to look into.

NJ,
I agree, and it makes it very difficult to hold onto who believes what because of that. There isn't even a common acceptance of scripture, dogma, doctrine, etc. If there was, It would be much easier to analyze what "Christians" believe is truth as a united body.

wil (#28 post),
This is something I see in most people's posts... see ACOT (#29 Post)... and just to cover it here, how is there no room to discuss, to attempt to change someone's mind is an attempt at conversion, If he is steadfast in his belief, how does that affect yours or his ability to discuss yours or his view?
 
I removed this one in case Mods needed to delete it for content
Kathie,
Due to your sneer at Muslims and Hindus howling (such as we are dogs), I feel the need to be as blunt with you as you have us. I'm glad that you think you have telepathic powers to speak to Jesus (PBUH), God, or whoever else. I cannot pass without saying I believe that claim is one of your own mind playing tricks on you. Nothing you have stated has any basis in scripture (be it, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc) or science. The closest thing to believable is our acute ESP sense in which our brains can in a very minute way understand that someone nearby is projecting their sense upon you. (platypus have a much more developed version of this and yet we can't communicate with them...) If you can communicate with Jesus (PBUH) and can actually confirm he is God, Why don't you ask him why he allowed his word to be manipulated, if all those parts were true about not one letter would be changed. Also why he created conflict with people who profess a love for Jesus (PBUH) and the other prophets. Why did he not warn that someone would come in 600 years that would be praising his name and receiving a book that would coincide with all of his and previous Prophets (PBUTA) teachings. Why would he not answer all the questions that people now have with the Bible? Why would he not just say "I AM GOD" and make sure that it was recorded rather than allowing people to be led away because of obvious issues in literal aspects of the book? Your claim is based on nothing more than your experiences in what I can only assume a self inflicted state.
 
If one is steadfast in their belief...and only interested in shouting it from the rooftops...

this just might not be the forum... If one says I BELIEVE and this is my belief, my understanding but I'd like to hear yours...that is different than your views have no room here...

I simply have no room in my views of folks who stamp their fists like that repeatedly.

Your logic is logical for YOU... not for the rest...
 
BigJoe, you misinterpret what I said. Or at least that is my inference from your syllogism. You said "If there was not a true path then there is no false path or wrong path either. Anything is valid."

Here's what I find wrong with this statement. You are essentially saying if there is no 1 truth then there isn't any false paths (plural). You are comparing one truth to many falsehoods. Not apples to apples.

Stated correctly it should be if there is no 1 truth then there is no 1 false path either. Which is precisely my point. There is not but 1 single solitary truth. There are many truths, many true paths to enlightenment (or to God if you prefer). And yes it does follow from that there are many false paths as well.

That is MY truth. There is NO 1 truth. There are many true paths to the Divine.
 
Shibolet said:
Prophet Isaiah says that if we do not speak according to the Law and the Prophets, it means, we don't have the Truth. (Isa. 8:20) The Truth is one and there is no more than one.
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Shib I'm not at all sure that I can reply in a way you are capable of understanding. Which is not in any way a slight against you, your intelligence or anything of that sort. I don't think you are capable of understanding me because you are so locked into your truth that it is beyond your ability to comprehend that maybe, just maybe, Isaiah doesn't have the final word on the subject.

It is your interpretation of Isaiah that his is the last word on the subject of truth. There are a couple billion people on the planet that don't see it your way. I ask you, how can that be if yours is the only 1 truth. How can that be?
 
I'd still like to see an interfaith discussion of Islam and Judaism between Ben and Joe...so they can show us what interfaith is.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
Shib I'm not at all sure that I can reply in a way you are capable of understanding. Which is not in any way a slight against you, your intelligence or anything of that sort. I don't think you are capable of understanding me because you are so locked into your truth that it is beyond your ability to comprehend that maybe, just maybe, Isaiah doesn't have the final word on the subject.

It is your interpretation of Isaiah that his is the last word on the subject of truth. There are a couple billion people on the planet that don't see it your way. I ask you, how can that be if yours is the only 1 truth. How can that be?
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I've stated many times that I believe there are many paths that end with the same conclusion. For instance IMO (since I am Muslim) The straight path to the truth is Islam. Like the interstate between 2 cities. Between those 2 cities, there might be several highways, roads, even some dirt paths that will get to the same destination. But the 1 true path is the easiest, most correct route. And for this analogy, the first one to the city wins the biggest prize. But there are also roads that lead nowhere, roads that are treacherous, and roads that lead to another city. As my view is that other city is one of eternal hardship. Because you didn't follow the route prescribed, nor any part of it. One day I may think of a better way to say this analogy, but I think by the time I completed it, It would be a small book...
Devils' Advocate said:
Shib I'm not at all sure that I can reply in a way you are capable of understanding. Which is not in any way a slight against you, your intelligence or anything of that sort. I don't think you are capable of understanding me because you are so locked into your truth that it is beyond your ability to comprehend that maybe, just maybe, Isaiah doesn't have the final word on the subject.

It is your interpretation of Isaiah that his is the last word on the subject of truth. There are a couple billion people on the planet that don't see it your way. I ask you, how can that be if yours is the only 1 truth. How can that be?
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Just to throw the scenario back, is it possible that Isaiah did know the truth? Are you so locked into your way of thinking that maybe, just maybe Isaiah was correct. How then does your worldview accompany that idea, can you prove Isaiah (or at least what has been recorded of his teachings) to be incorrect? Is there any real way to discredit him? If the answers consist of him possibly being correct, then why if someone holds it steadfast it isn't possible that it is the "Only Truth". I have to add that your logic IMO is slightly flawed in that you can't associate people not agreeing with there not being a single truth.
 
wil said:
If one is steadfast in their belief...and only interested in shouting it from the rooftops...

this just might not be the forum... If one says I BELIEVE and this is my belief, my understanding but I'd like to hear yours...that is different than your views have no room here...

I simply have no room in my views of folks who stamp their fists like that repeatedly.

Your logic is logical for YOU... not for the rest...
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wil said:
I'd still like to see an interfaith discussion of Islam and Judaism between Ben and Joe...so they can show us what interfaith is.
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So wil, in your wisdom, what is there room for? you have stated that one cannot say what they believe, cannot be steadfast to their beliefs, can't be interested in hearing others viewpoints. So is your version of interfaith a conglomerate of ideas that we all MUST accept to be part of? What you describe is a religion in itself. I am steadfast in my belief. Shib is as well, I assume from what I've read Thomas, DA, ACOT, Edgy, and you are all steadfast in their belief and we discuss it here all the time. Even here, Shib stated his point, never said anyone was wrong, but that his view is this. Pretty same with mine. Others stated "This is how it is" and yet you have no problem with those (assuming because they are fringe groups and not as easy of a target for your contention). I do not have to bend to your ideas to discuss things in a peaceful and constructive manner. But as usual, you find something completely off topic to gripe about when your argument is entirely weak. I stated that my view is that my faith is based on many things, and Logic and science are some of them. Someone stated everyone assumes their view is backed by Logic and science and that it takes manipulation to get those out of religion. I stated that If you can't find something of error, then you can't claim I am incorrect in my assertion. Then I received news from you and some others that what I say is not interfaith. So again, tell me how you rejecting my claim is Interfaith, but me acknowledging our differences is not. Again, I've stated before a lot of what I receive from some members here is a double standard, If I say what I believe, I am just trying to convert/debate. You say I am incorrect and your view is correct (or at least that others are not) and you are a hero of interfaith. If you haven't figured it out yet, I don't back down when someone challenges me by saying I am wrong until they can prove me wrong. I've offered many threads and debate threads to show I am both willing to input my view for others to compare/contrast with theirs, and I acknowledge that there is a possibility that I am wrong. You however are stuck with a "no you are wrong because lots of people have made that claim and none of them were correct" argument. So right back at you, I'd still love to see you in an interfaith discussion with anyone.
 
BigJoeNobody said:
I don't get why we have to keep bouncing back to a discussion on what interfaith is.
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This is the reason:

BigJoeNobody said:
ACOT,
I'm not sure which of us you think listens, but either way it doesn't matter.
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I know it doesn't matter to you and I'm not trying to convince you. But listening is an important part of what I do here and that is why I keep coming back to it because it's topical each and every time I post. Without it this is a series of monologues, that's probably interfaith for you. Fine good for you, but I was talking to Wil when I said "the precepts of interfaith AS YOU AND I SEE IT". So you can quit defending yourself because we both know it's only a one way street for you.
 
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