Why do you need Jesus? He saves you from what?

[Thomas]

There are instances in Scripture where Jesus reaches outside the circle we might presume to surround Him:

In Matthew and Luke we have the occasion when a centurion in Caphernaum came to ask Jesus to cure his sick daughter. "And Jesus hearing this, marvelled; and said to them that followed him: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel." (Matthew 8:10, Luke 7:9)

Also, in Acts 10 we have the 'Baptism in the Spirit' of Cornelius and his household.

Both these instances affirm that non-believers can be 'as good as' if not better in the sight of God.

Matthew goes on to say: "And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven: But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:11-12, Luke 13:28-30)
To which I suggest God calls whosoever He wills, and those who consider themselves 'holier than thou' might be in for a rude awakening.

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
In Matthew and Luke we have the occasion when a centurion in Caphernaum came to ask Jesus to cure his sick daughter. "And Jesus hearing this, marvelled; and said to them that followed him: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel." (Matthew 8:10, Luke 7:9)

Mmm .. he had faith in Jesus [ as he'd heard about him ].
That is not stubborn disbelief.

..To which I suggest God calls whosoever He wills, and those who consider themselves 'holier than thou' might be in for a rude awakening.

I agree with you..

5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
- Matthew 5 -.

However, those that oppose righteousness [ as defined in the Bible ], are not as those who listen.

3 ...Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
- Matthew 13 -

Are those that are "deaf", equal to those who are not?

 

[Namaste Jesus]

An atheist is a person who does not believe in "gods" .. that includes the Bible.
That means that they do not obtain their values of morality from God.

I would somewhat disagree here. Yes, there are atheists hellbent on denouncing God at every turn, but I think God touches our lives whether we believe or not, whether we are aware of it or not. Of course so does evil, but that's true of believers as well. Just saying, believing in God does not automatically guarantee salvation, nor does not believing guarantee the opposite, IMO. We are judged by our works.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Just saying, believing in God does not automatically guarantee salvation..

No .. our deeds are important too.

, nor does not believing guarantee the opposite, IMO. We are judged by our works.

I think the Bible makes it clear that faith is very important.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—
9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them.
- Ephesians 2 -

 

[Namaste Jesus]

I think the Bible makes it clear that faith is very important.

I agree. Faith is paramount in my view, but as pointed out in the passage you quoted, our salvation is God's gift, transcending even our works.

For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them.

Certainly true of all mankind, believer and non-believer alike. For that reason I believe faith rests in the heart regardless and that when all is said and done, only God can decide who is and is not worthy of his gift, not you or I.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Certainly true of all mankind, believer and non-believer alike. For that reason I believe faith rests in the heart regardless and that when all is said and done, only God can decide who is and is not worthy of his gift, not you or I.

The passage you quoted is referring to believers [For by grace you have been saved through faith]
..but yes, of course .. God knows all about us .. but death is final, as regards to our faith.
If we die disbelievers, with few exceptions, it is a catastrophe.

 

[Thomas]

Are those that are "deaf", equal to those who are not?

I'd rather not sit in judgement on my brother ... (cf Matthew 7:3)

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'd rather not sit in judgement on my brother ...

That is not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that one would hope, that having a sincere faith in God, would affect our deeds.
That is the whole point of faith.

It isn't just thinking "I'm a Christian, so I'm going to heaven automatically".
In the same way, a person without faith, do their deeds without consideration of "the law"

Yes, our deeds don't save us, our faith does.
..but without faith, there is no salvation.

..just saying it how it is [ what the Bible teaches us? ]

 

[Thomas]

That is not what I'm saying.

..but without faith, there is no salvation.

..just saying it how it is [ what the Bible teaches us? ]

I'm just not getting into who's saved and who's not ... I hope all will be saved.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'm just not getting into who's saved and who's not ... I hope all will be saved.

Yes .. Almighty God would like it if all were saved .. but He knows that it will not be the case.
He is omniscient. He is aware of the righteousness of our ancestors.
He is also aware of future generations.
We all have free-will. We are responsible for what is in our hearts.

If there is good in our hearts, then it is magnified.
If there is evil in our hearts, it is like a thorn in our side.

 

[Thomas]

Yes .. Almighty God would like it if all were saved .. but He knows that it will not be the case.
He is omniscient. He is aware of the righteousness of our ancestors.
He is also aware of future generations.
We all have free-will. We are responsible for what is in our hearts.

If there is good in our hearts, then it is magnified.
If there is evil in our hearts, it is like a thorn in our side.

My God is one of Infinite Mercy. If it lies within His power to bring a lost soul to Himself, that He will do. I place no limit on what He is capable of, in this life or the next.

 

[muhammad_isa]

My God is one of Infinite Mercy..

He's mine as well.

 

[Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi]

When we read the holy Bible, then here is the verse

Psalm 2:7

King James Version

​

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

It means David is also begotten son of god.

 

[RJM]

When we read the holy Bible, then here is the verse

Psalm 2:7​

​

King James Version​

​

​

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

It means David is also begotten son of god.

And so David and Jesus are just the same? Didn't David have a human father -- according to scripture?

 

[Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi]

My dear friends, I am referencing the Bible says (Psalm 2:7) to David that
" Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee".
But the Bible also says about Adam who has no human father.
(Luke 3:38)
King James Bible
Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Again I read the bible which says two begotten sons of god (One is David and the other is Jesus).
Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[RJM]

My dear friends, I am referencing the Bible says (Psalm 2:7) to David that
" Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee".
But the Bible also says about Adam who has no human father.
(Luke 3:38)
King James Bible
Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Again I read the bible which says two begotten sons of god (One is David and the other is Jesus).
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Jesus Christ is the new, sinless Adam

 

[Aupmanyav]

"And Jesus hearing this, marvelled; and said to them that followed him: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel." (Matthew 8:10, Luke 7:9)
Also, in Acts 10 we have the 'Baptism in the Spirit' of Cornelius and his household.

Ah, for the same reason people visit shamans, quacks, astrologers or churches, dargahs and temples. We have a saying in Hindi 'Martā, kyā na kartā?' (one who is near death, what will not he / she do to escape it?). The person may do all kinds of illogical things, if the person is told that cw-piss will prolong his life, he will probably drink that too or even sacrifice a human.
Do these people have faith that these visits will solve their problems? Not necessarily. They are just trying their luck in hope that their problems may be solved.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If we die disbelievers, with few exceptions, it is a catastrophe.

And how do you know that?
In theist Hinduism, you are saved just by your deeds (how well did you fulfill your dharma?), no God or Goddess is involved in the process.
What you sow, that you will reap. Yama, the Lord of Death cannot override what one has done.
Of course, I do not require any saving or savior, being without any soul. What will God save in my case?

 

[muhammad_isa]

And how do you know that?
In theist Hinduism, you are saved just by your deeds (how well did you fulfill your dharma?)..

Yes, it is all about deeds..
Denial of Almighty God leads to a different standard of morality.
That affects our whole life, just as belief affects our whole life.

..Of course, I do not require any saving or savior, being without any soul. What will God save in my case?

You exist .. until you find out otherwise, there is something to save.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, it is all about deeds..
Denial of Almighty God leads to a different standard of morality. That affects our whole life, just as belief affects our whole life.
You exist .. until you find out otherwise, there is something to save.

I am just as good or bad as any theist.
After death, there is nothing to find and no one to find.
Accept the reality, my friend. The rest all are stories.