There is no justice if atheism is true

[badger]

Yeah, only one out of 150 million or so, rarely more than that (but that too happens).
Actually, there is a case when a pregnancy produced two children from different fathers and the secret was out.
https://www.today.com/parents/mother-gives-birth-twins-different-dads-2D80554133

Thinking about that, its zillions of lottery wins, Aup, because each of my ancestors had to win and meet each other for my Mum and Dad to ever meet.
Well, that's my 'feel good' factor sorted for this morning, anyway!
Yes! Twin siblings with different Dads, I hope that didn't cause too much hassle for everybody.

 

[badger]

You've got it all wrong.

[/QUOTE]
I got it right ....

Nobody suffers without good reason. Nobody !

Ha ha! Without your good reason, perhaps?

Is "not being a Christian" good reason? No.
Is "not being a Muslim" good reason? No.

Says you. I just remember what I have read and been told.

Is ignoring God, and going astray good reason? Yes.

Well that's what I wrote! You're just being contrary, I think, and contradicting yourself.

As long as the "man-made" laws are made by people who believe like yourself, you mean?

Different legislation in different countries! The laws of the leaders of their lands. I can't change that, but laws where you are reasonable, mostly, so I wouldn't moan too much about them.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well that's what I wrote! You're just being contrary, I think, and contradicting yourself.

No .. I'm just being more precise.
You said "That is the essence of Christianity imo, for those who do not join/comply an horrific fate.."

Are you referring to a specific creed, such as Catholic or Methodist or Baptist etc. ?
..just because a group of people claim "only they will go to heaven etc. ", it doesn't mean
that they represent the truth about what it is to be a Christian.

If you don't like what Jesus taught about life after death, then you are effectively turning away from righteousness,
and bear the consequences of your sin.
It is not a threat, but a warning from the Almighty.
God wrongs nobody. We wrong our own souls.

 

[RJM]

that was a parable and not anything to do with Justice in the afterlife

Jesus always spoke in parables; they have levels of meaning

just a nasty threat of Hades for unbelievers and leavers

You are projecting into the passage what you want it to mean, imo

That's not true. I said that Jesus didn't talk about justice in any afterlife

But here he did ...

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

This reads a bit like your views on the situation with Bahais in Iran, Tony.
All Bahai reports are pure as driven snow. All other reports are written by the old devil himself!
And it looks as if only pro-Bahai literature is the solid truth.....

It boils down to our willingness to understand the Message and purpose of the Bab OB. Plain and simple.

I have read all the history, I am aware that some of the Bab'i did not live to the standard required by the Message, but I am also aware why.

A lot of people that became a follower of the Bab, were under the impression that the Bab came to reform Islam. One has to understand how bad it was at that time for the people living under corrupt self serving leaders.

The Bab'i did not raise the first sword, did not committ the first act of violence, but when that did happen, they acted as lawful under Islam, they defended their faith.

One cannot expect an overnight change, look at the world today, it still has not embraced the Message of Peace an unity.

Tahirih, a Disciple of the Bab, a women before her time, took of her veil in the mid 1800's and opened the door for the equality of women, look what happens in Iran today, that event was the dawn of the day where women will gain equal rights under law. Iran will be a place to visit in the future, a progressive Nation.

Notice how they still fight against the women, now consider a Message such as that in the mid 1800's

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

Removed

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. look at the world today, it still has not embraced the Message of Peace an unity.

Why does not Allah understand that humans will never embrace peace and brotherhood? It is a manufacturing defect. He uselessly continues to send prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Why does not Allah understand that humans will never embrace peace and brotherhood? It is a manufacturing defect. He uselessly continues to send prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis.

I see the unpeaceful, will be the minority in the future.

Do you think all these global conclusions and wars are mere coincidence? We will face great destruction.

Regards Tony

 

[badger]

No .. I'm just being more precise.
You said "That is the essence of Christianity imo, for those who do not join/comply an horrific fate.."

Are you referring to a specific creed, such as Catholic or Methodist or Baptist etc. ?
..just because a group of people claim "only they will go to heaven etc. ", it doesn't mean
that they represent the truth about what it is to be a Christian.

If you don't like what Jesus taught about life after death, then you are effectively turning away from righteousness,
and bear the consequences of your sin.
It is not a threat, but a warning from the Almighty.
God wrongs nobody. We wrong our own souls.

I can see that you are a wise and informed person, and as you know I do have trouble with comprehension.
So please....... teach me, OK?
Now, if I don't like what Jesus taught, turning away from righteousness, what will happen to me?
I need to know of the Christian Church or creed that does not warn of hell/hades etc to those who turn away from Jesus, or even their church.

 

[badger]

Jesus always spoke in parables; they have levels of meaning

Well that just didn't work very well, even his friends had difficulty in understanding him.
Now why would the son of God speak in ways that only some people could understand?
That's like some kind of predestination belief, only those who understand the riddles will be saved, kind of thing.

You are projecting into the passage what you want it to mean, imo

So, as simply as you can, please tell me what that passage means.

But here he did ...

Well that's a very strange kind of legislation, then. Laws need to be as clear as day for as many to understand as possible. A law stating that people who don't hear the words of (such as) Moses will fail, veiled in a parable, is not going to be good for Christianity imo. After all, Christianity discarded 95% of all his laws.

It's all too strange for a deist to grasp.

 

[RJM]

all too strange for a deist to grasp.

Yup

 

[badger]

It boils down to our willingness to understand the Message and purpose of the Bab OB. Plain and simple.

I have read all the history, I am aware that some of the Bab'i did not live to the standard required by the Message, but I am also aware why.

A lot of people that became a follower of the Bab, were under the impression that the Bab came to reform Islam. One has to understand how bad it was at that time for the people living under corrupt self serving leaders.

The Bab'i did not raise the first sword, did not committ the first act of violence, but when that did happen, they acted as lawful under Islam, they defended their faith.

One cannot expect an overnight change, look at the world today, it still has not embraced the Message of Peace an unity.

Tahirih, a Disciple of the Bab, a women before her time, took of her veil in the mid 1800's and opened the door for the equality of women, look what happens in Iran today, that event was the dawn of the day where women will gain equal rights under law. Iran will be a place to visit in the future, a progressive Nation.

Notice how they still fight against the women, now consider a Message such as that in the mid 1800's

Regards Tony

The Bab's message was quite terrible, seeking to initiate some very wicked pogroms against innocent unbelievers, even wishing to turn them out of their homes and cities. Bahai tells that these writings didn't mean it, but the trouble is this, if ever the Bahai faith held a majority in the World and gained power the Bahai World leaders (in quorum) could receive a message from God instructing them to initiate the Bab's demands.

There are enough people in the world now to warn against any kind of Bahai government, but who knows...maybe one day the people might decide that Bahai should lead? May God help them.

I've heard all this rhetoric over 50 years now, long before all the books were translated and all exposed.

Right now a very brave movement among women in Iran is demonstrating against bad government and most unlawful treatment of women, but it isn't a Bahai movement........ its a feminine movement. I don't think that these brave women can prevail, but if Bahai is trying to moan about unfairness at this time then its calls are being drowned out. I wonder if Bahai will support these amazingly brave people?

 

[badger]

Why does not Allah understand that humans will never embrace peace and brotherhood? It is a manufacturing defect. He uselessly continues to send prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis.

It's been like that for countless millennia, the chaos of Nature........ and God must simply like it like that, or be dealing with other things somewhere else.
We are alone under the whim of Nature.

PS, I am slowly reading the Song of the Unborn........ a few lines can keep me in thought all day long.

 

[badger]

I see the unpeaceful, will be the minority in the future.

Do you think all these global conclusions and wars are mere coincidence? We will face great destruction.

Regards Tony

Probably....... Possibly..... Nature might be fed up with the imbalances of humanity on this little planet.
Its all down to Mother Nature.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

. I don't think that these brave women can prevail, but if Bahai is trying to moan about unfairness at this time then its calls are being drowned out. I wonder if Bahai will support these amazingly brave people?

A great majority of these will know what the Baha'i have been facing, and bring out that truth for all to hear.

Even then there will be those that will not hear.

Regards Tony

 

[muhammad_isa]

Now, if I don't like what Jesus taught, turning away from righteousness, what will happen to me?

Nobody knows what will happen to any particular individual, regardless of their beliefs.
The point I was making, is that a person who turns away from God, is effectively ignoring His guidance.
Now, you might think that you can do without it, and that you are "good".
If that was the case, then why would you not acknowledge the concept of sin, as in the Bible?

I need to know of the Christian Church or creed that does not warn of hell/hades etc to those who turn away from Jesus, or even their church.

Why?
We are all in danger of suffering after our death, regardless of faith.

 

[badger]

A great majority of these will know what the Baha'i have been facing, and bring out that truth for all to hear.

Even then there will be those that will not hear.

Regards Tony

They aren't walking out for Baha'i, and I doubt that Baha'i will walk out for them.

 

[badger]

Nobody knows what will happen to any particular individual, regardless of their beliefs.
The point I was making, is that a person who turns away from God, is effectively ignoring His guidance.
Now, you might think that you can do without it, and that you are "good".
If that was the case, then why would you not acknowledge the concept of sin, as in the Bible?

I don't believe that such a God exists.

Why?
We are all in danger of suffering after our death, regardless of faith.

I am safe from the fear of what will happen. I was dead for countless billions of years and it was alright. It can be alright again.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't believe that such a God exists.

We know that..
..so you don't believe in Divine law, and must face the consequences.
You believe in the rule of "chaos" .. which you call "mother nature"..

I think if you look again, you will see human beings, that are working corruption on the earth.
We will have to answer for it .. in this life AND the next.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Do you think all these global conclusions and wars are mere coincidence? We will face great destruction.

Yeah, many things happen in the world by unforeseen circumstances. We have faced many great destructions, and we have survived.

"The controversial Toba catastrophe theory, presented in the late 1990s to early 2000s, suggested that a bottleneck of the human population occurred approximately 75,000 years ago, proposing that the human population was reduced to perhaps 10,000–30,000 individuals when the Toba supervolcano in Indonesia erupted and triggered a major environmental change. Parallel bottlenecks were proposed to exist among chimpanzees, gorillas, rhesus macaques, orangutans and tigers.

In 2000, a Molecular Biology and Evolution paper suggested a transplanting model or a 'long bottleneck' to account for the limited genetic variation, rather than a catastrophic environmental change. This would be consistent with suggestions that in sub-Saharan Africa numbers could have dropped at times as low as 2,000, for perhaps as long as 100,000 years, before numbers began to expand again in the Late Stone Age."

Population bottleneck - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org