There is no justice if atheism is true

RJM said:
But a person from another tribe wasn't regarded as a human being.
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That is not true. Tribes lived in peace, smoked peace pipes. In India, they exchanged head-gears and then they were known and acted as 'pagri badal brothers', fulfilling a brother's responsibility.

iu
 
Aupmanyav said:
That is not true. Tribes lived in peace, smoked peace pipes. In India, they exchanged head-gears and then they were known and acted as 'pagri badal brothers', fulfilling a brother's responsibility.

iu
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He might have been thinking of football supporters, Aup.
 
Aupmanyav said:
That is not true. Tribes lived in peace, smoked peace pipes. In India, they exchanged head-gears and then they were known and acted as 'pagri badal brothers', fulfilling a brother's responsibility.

iu
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I don't know about India, Perhaps sometimes tribes smoked a peace pipe and formed alliances. But in general they did not get along, in Africa, America, around the Black Sea and so on. That is why people lived in walled cities or hilltop forts -- they were always under attack. It wasn't a peaceful life. History is written in blood, imo
 
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RJM said:
..That is why people lived in walled cities or hilltop forts -- they were always under attack. It wasn't a peaceful life. History is written in blood, imo
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Exactly.
It is so easy to take modern civilisation for granted.
That is why, civilisations rise and fall, of course, with no exceptions.

Western civilisation is in decline, and much of the world follows blindly into disaster.
 
Nevertheless 'first world' secular democracy is the kindest and most peaceful civilization in history to date -- legalising rights for all minorities, and is perhaps the only one in which most young men have not had to go to war?

The irony is that it's the religionists (or people using religion as a lobby) who want to change it by encouraging a "we/them" approach to different others, and the "We Christians Club" nationalists in America trying to turn democracy into a war between "Christians Vs evil" IMO
 
RJM said:
Nevertheless 'first world' secular democracy is the kindest and most peaceful civilization in history to date -- legalising rights for all minorities, and is perhaps the only one in which most young men have not had to go to war?
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Are you sure?
Wars happen all the time..

..but that is beyond the scope of the OP.
i.e. the concept of Divine justice
 
badger said:
After the 'justice' of Christianity I think we had better give atheism a chance. Theistic versions of justice have not held a particularly good reputation.
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Postreligious attempts at utopia, such as Mao's Cultural Revolution, were some of the worst massacres in the history of humanity.

What had those third century Christians running towards the plague, @badger? What inspired Baha'is about to be hanged for their beliefs to show kindness to their oppressors? Hint: it sure wasn't the belief that we are nothing but atoms.
 
Aupmanyav said:
What is 'spiritual destiny'? People learn as years pass by.

Do you mean to say that Hindus and Muslims do not help people? In Hinduism, any help given for a personal interest does not qualify as help. The help giver should remain anonymous. They say "Gupt dāna, mahā dāna" (what is given secretly (without any advertising), is great giving). The left hand should not know what the right hand is doing.
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No . . .

I was giving an example.
 
Ahanu said:
Postreligious attempts at utopia, such as Mao's Cultural Revolution, were some of the worst massacres in the history of humanity.
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Oh please! So you want me to point you to theism's ideas of justice gone by?
And then you're going to reply, showing me how just Theism has been?

We don't need any messages from your Gods for justice, thank you.
Ahanu said:
What had those third century Christians running towards the plague, @badger? What inspired Baha'is about to be hanged for their beliefs to show kindness to their oppressors? Hint: it sure wasn't the belief that we are nothing but atoms.
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Sources please....... The running Christians..... where, and who, and why?

And of course Bahai convicts have been kind to hangmen! Where have you been??? !
Where I live convicts would give a gold coin to the hangman if they could.......... do I need to explain why? (Probably) The hangman would climb on to a favoured convict's shoulder and jump up/down to give a quick death...... the others died slowly, kicking out until death.
 
People have always abused religion. The Spirit is not polluted— the Spirit remains always pure and holy, regardless of human failure. Religion, or faith, has bought far more good than the bad caused by its abuse by people, IMO
 
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badger said:
Where I live convicts would give a gold coin to the hangman if they could.......... do I need to explain why? (Probably) The hangman would climb on to a favoured convict's shoulder and jump up/down to give a quick death...... the others died slowly, kicking out until death.
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At least they weren't sent to the guillotine..

The guillotine is best known for its use in France, particularly during the French Revolution, where the revolution's supporters celebrated it as the people's avenger and the revolution's opponents vilified it as the pre-eminent symbol of the violence of the Reign of Terror
...
During the Reign of Terror (June 1793 to July 1794) about 17,000 people were guillotined, including former King Louis XVI and Queen Marie Antoinette who were executed at the guillotine in 1793. Towards the end of the Terror in 1794, revolutionary leaders such as Georges Danton, Saint-Just and Maximilien Robespierre were sent to the guillotine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine

Don't talk to me about Robespierre.
I believe he was your fellow deist. 😣
 
muhammad_isa said:
At least they weren't sent to the guillotine..

The guillotine is best known for its use in France, particularly during the French Revolution, where the revolution's supporters celebrated it as the people's avenger and the revolution's opponents vilified it as the pre-eminent symbol of the violence of the Reign of Terror
...
During the Reign of Terror (June 1793 to July 1794) about 17,000 people were guillotined, including former King Louis XVI and Queen Marie Antoinette who were executed at the guillotine in 1793. Towards the end of the Terror in 1794, revolutionary leaders such as Georges Danton, Saint-Just and Maximilien Robespierre were sent to the guillotine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine

Don't talk to me about Robespierre.
I believe he was your fellow deist. 😣
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Most often the guillotine caused a very quick death, although on some occasions such as king Louis'
execution it went badly wrong.
Christians burned a lot of people on the past, of course.
Some Muslim countries still behead and stone convicts.
 
@Aupmanyav ..... Did Pol Pot have a religion or was he atheist? Either way he had to be the maddest mass murderer of modern times.
 
Aupmanyav said:
Do you mean to say that Hindus and Muslims do not help people? In Hinduism, any help given for a personal interest does not qualify as help. The help giver should remain anonymous. They say "Gupt dāna, mahā dāna" (what is given secretly (without any advertising), is great giving). The left hand should not know what the right hand is doing.
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That is also a true Christian.

Names can be a veil, it is the actions that define the "Spirit".

An Athiest can also produce works in that 'Spirit', yet attribute it to their own selves.

Regards Tony
 
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