Absolute Truth
- Thread starter Modesty
- Start date
Agreed that may not be the right word. But I believe they are sincere, going beyond established religion in favour of trying to build something more modern. It's truth for them.
But I think the poor and the lost and broken will still prefer their old religions that are less intellectual and give individual spiritual comfort straight to the heart instead of the focus on world affairs and the concept of a new messenger for the new age, etc.
Something like that ...
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Can there be one absolute truth so great, that possibly even God could not do anything greater?
Could God create anything greater than children in his own image, likeness and nature?
Could God love all his children as he loves himself?
Could God love us more than he loves himself?
Jesus died for us, does that mean Jesus loves us as he loves himself?
Search for something greater!
Could God create anything greater than children in his own image, likeness and nature?
Could God love all his children as he loves himself?
Could God love us more than he loves himself?
Jesus died for us, does that mean Jesus loves us as he loves himself?
Search for something greater!
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
The thing is, and where I do believe you are ...wrong... is that these B'Hai folks are not harming anyone. I see Tony here doing his level best to be polite and considerate, albeit while parroting his belief system. As I told him, it is not my place to say your path to G!d is not the correct path. If the evidence of Spirit is present - and in his case I believe it is - then who am I to say otherwise and attempt to derail his faith?
Likewise with Catholicism, or any other faith for that matter.
"These who have not the Law, do the Law by nature as it is written on their hearts." I probably botched the quote from Romans 2, but the gist is there.
It isn't about which religious mythos you proclaim or adhere to....what do you DO with your faith? If all you have to offer is tearing down others and their faiths, then you are not of G!d. It isn't WHAT you believe, it is what you DO with what you believe that you will be judged by.
Modesty
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I'm sorry for neglecting the discussion here (and in my other thread), guys. I've been really sick so I haven't had the energy to reply, but I'm fascinated by where the discussion has gone. Hopefully my fever brain doesn't stop me from composing at least half-intelligent responses lol.
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
I hope you feel better soon.
Of course they're not
Taking over every thread to do so, ignoring the sensitivity of others, and popping a 'regards' at the end of every post, like some sort of robot, imo -- perhaps he is?
The issue is prolific proselytizing of his faith, using our forums as a soapbox to do so, and with no other interest in the forums except for that purpose -- IMO
Yet he has no qualms about attempting to derail the faith of others, in a way that appears blasphemous to some of them. As you once said: the issue is that their beliefs are precious to THEM
If Catholics or Muslims or MAGA fundamentalists or Hare Krishna or any other faith adopted these forums for the same sort of proselytizing, there would be floods of complaints and reports.
@Tony Bristow-Stagg is free to post here, but not to upset others by flooding the boards with robotic Baha'i proselytizing, IMO
EDIT: He has changed his avatar to a man bowing to an ostrich with its head in a hole -- obviously intended at everyone who does not agree with his religion, and a picture worth a thousand words of his sole interest in these and any other forums for the singular objective of proselytizing, imo
It's a duel he plays with moderators on these and any other forums he can get to use, pushing the envelope to the limit and then retreating and pulling back. He knows exactly what he's doing, imo
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juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
You wanted discussion...I see plenty of talking points
That's up to @Tony Bristow-Stagg but where I think he's proselytizing I reserve the right to say so, and also to drive a truck through the holes in his reasoning if he continues to dismiss the beliefs of others here in a condescending and superior manner.
Someone who dismisses the loved and revered religious figures of others as just another in a line of outdated messengers, should not take offence at their own new 'absolute truth' religious figure being dismissed as just another self-declared new messiah wannabee, imo
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TheLightWithin
...through a glass, darkly
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Can one determine a fact in theology? In spiritual matters?
TheLightWithin
...through a glass, darkly
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You may have frustrated some, but not me. So far so good. But if so many people are pushing back it's worth reflection right? I could really see why everyone got so upset with that one guy earlier on, a new guy, who was calling everyone a liar or saying everyone's beliefs are lies. I did too! But different things land differently with different people. Some people are getting almost as put off by your statements as they were by the other guy I just mentioned. So far I'm just intrigued by what you say. I don't have a strong commitment to a particular dogma so when you state your dogma I just take it in as information. Not so for everyone with other theological commitments.
But what happens when I get my head more around Baha'i theology and doctrine and start picking some teachings apart? For example I was surprised to learn from some things you said that Baha'ullah is supposed to be the incarnation of the Father? Do I have that right? So the classical Christian Trinitarian formula already kind of makes my head spin... but if according to Bahai theology the Father incarnated -- does that mean Bahai is trinitarian but takes it further, or it means something else -- or --?? Even trying to think it through makes me dizzy.
When I get to understanding your theology better and start probing, is that going to be vexing to you?
Why the need to manipulate the Bible to try to manufacture 'fulfilled prophecy' to try to justify Baha'u'llah"s claim to be the new Christ incarnation Jesus update? Surely a new messiah should stand on his own legs, by example of his own virtue, without always the need to reference Jesus?
Anyone can make the Bible say anything they want it to, if they are determined enough. And then there is the condescending attitude to Christians and the billowing oceans of pseudo olde worlde language Baha'i texts 'offered' in return -- post after post, across multiple threads
Anyone can make the Bible say anything they want it to, if they are determined enough. And then there is the condescending attitude to Christians and the billowing oceans of pseudo olde worlde language Baha'i texts 'offered' in return -- post after post, across multiple threads
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Yes indeed they can. It ties into Absolute Truth.
The Messengers are the source of all Truth to humanity, they are the apex of knowledge.
It is logical that they will stand out for others and it is their life and Message that reflects the truth relative to the age we live in.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
I would offer that The Messengers do no say the former beliefs are lies. They bring us a bigger picture of God given Truth and this picture shows us how previous doctrine, formulated from tge minds of men, were not built on a full understanding of the topic on hand. By the correction of doctrine, they are guiding us to fuller understanding.
So when Muhammad offered to the Christian to desist with the Trinity, and offered Jesus was a Messenger, Muhammad was offering us the relative and full Truth for the age of Muhammad. Muhammad, just as Jesus before him were Messengers of God. They both brought to us Truth, both bring us to submit to the Councels of our One God.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
But what happens when I get my head more around Baha'i theology and doctrine and start picking some teachings apart? For example I was surprised to learn from some things you said that Baha'ullah is supposed to be the incarnation of the Father? Do I have that right? So the classical Christian Trinitarian formula already kind of makes my head spin... but if according to Bahai theology the Father incarnated -- does that mean Bahai is trinitarian but takes it further, or it means something else -- or --?? Even trying to think it through makes me dizzy.
When I get to understanding your theology better and start probing, is that going to be vexing to you?
Put all thought of doctrine aside and look at it with new eyes. The concept is that God is exalted above our comprehensive capacity, the creation cannot know the Creator. God does not decend into creation. Just as the sun that gives life to this planet does not decend, the rays of the sun permeate creation and give light and life.
God is Spirit. God speaks to us by giving existence to a perfect human in each age, a person born of more than Human Spirit, a station they share with all humanity, they are Annointed with the Holy spirit, no other man shares this station but the Messengers, they are pre-existing in the Holy Spirit.
They are all we know of God. John 1:18
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
The mystery of God will always be, the way we experience God, only via the Messengers, does not have to be a Mystery, it can be the unity of all Faiths.
Regards Tony
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
John 1: 17-18
Not Baha'u'llah, not Muhammad -- it's Jesus Christ whom John is talking about. Always trying to cherry-pick the New Testament
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Exactly what Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah do, the Messemgers and the Message stands up its own merits and prophecies.
The fact they referenced Jesus, is because Jesus mentioned them. Jesus mentioned Abraham and Moses and said in John 5:46-47 "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
The same can then be expectes from Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah and they have offered much the same.
Baha'u'llah said to the Jews,"O Jews! If ye be intent on crucifying once again Jesus, the Spirit of God, put Me to death, for He hath once more, in My person, been made manifest unto you.."
Regards Tony