Absolute Truth

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

“I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.8)

The Absolute Truth given by an Annointed Name of God, Krishna.

When we embrace the Messengers, we submit to God and "engage in My (God given) devotional service and worship Me (God) with all their hearts.”

My and Me in this quote is Krishna speaking as the "Self of God", yet all the while will acknowledge He is also a man like us, the Messengers submit to God's Will and do as God asks of them. The perfect Human example.

We are One with God, when we become One with the Messengers and submit to the Councels God has given us in this age.

I will offer, we spend a lifetime learning submission, it is a very rare person that can obtain that Oneness, and God knows, I am not one of those.

Regards Tony

 

[juantoo3]

But see, Tony, you are still looking at the menu. The menu(s) is / are not the meal.

What do all these faiths point to?

It isn't what you believe, it is what you DO with what you believe. Are you pointed in the right direction and doing the best you know how with what you've been given? Are you doing unto others as you wish done to yourself, or are you just uttering the words?

This isn't just for Tony, it remains true for all of us. That includes me.

Hashing over what t's are crossed and what i's dotted, is hollow and meaningless argument. We are judged by how sincerely we live our faith and put our wisdom tradition into behaviour.

 

[RJM]

The Lord Krishna offered.

“The whole cosmic order is under Me. Under My will it is automatically manifested again and again, and under My will it is annihilated at the end.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.8)

“I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.8)

“Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being – moving or nonmoving – that can exist without Me.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.39)

Are you implying that Muhammad, Moses, Noah and Abraham made the same claim?

The Absolute Truth given by an Annointed Name of God, Krishna.

When we embrace the Messengers, we submit to God and "engage in My (God given) devotional service and worship Me (God) with all their hearts.”

My and Me in this quote is Krishna speaking as the "Self of God", yet all the while will acknowledge He is also a man like us, the Messengers submit to God's Will and do as God asks of them. The perfect Human example.

In Bhagavad Gita 11 Krishna showed himself in his divine form to Arjuna. In a similar way Jesus showed Himself transfigured to Peter, James and John.

Krishna did not claim merely to mirror Vishnu, as a messenger, but to embody Vishnu, I believe?

The word Avatar comes from the Hindu belief in Vishnu's periodic incarnation as a human being?

 

[RJM]

I'm not sure Vishnu is the single supreme Hindu deity, but is one of a trinity, the Trimurti:

"Particularly in Vaishnavism the Trimurti (also known as the Hindu Triad or Great Trinity) represents the three fundamental forces (gunas) through which the universe is created, maintained, and destroyed in cyclic succession. Each of these forces is represented by a Hindu deity:

• Brahma: presiding deity of Rajas (passion, creation)
• Vishnu: presiding deity of Sattva (goodness, preservation)
• Shiva: presiding deity of Tamas (darkness, destruction)

The trimurti themselves are beyond three gunas and are not affected by it.

In Hindu tradition, the trio is often referred to as Brahma-Vishnu-Mahesh. All have the same meaning of three in One; different forms or manifestations of One person the Supreme Being."
Vishnu Wikipedia

 

[JustGeorge]

I'm not sure Vishnu is the single supreme Hindu deity, but is one of a trinity, the Trimurti:

"Particularly in Vaishnavism the Trimurti (also known as the Hindu Triad or Great Trinity) represents the three fundamental forces (gunas) through which the universe is created, maintained, and destroyed in cyclic succession. Each of these forces is represented by a Hindu deity:

• Brahma: presiding deity of Rajas (passion, creation)
• Vishnu: presiding deity of Sattva (goodness, preservation)
• Shiva: presiding deity of Tamas (darkness, destruction)

The trimurti themselves are beyond three gunas and are not affected by it.

In Hindu tradition, the trio is often referred to as Brahma-Vishnu-Mahesh. All have the same meaning of three in One; different forms or manifestations of One person the Supreme Being."
Vishnu Wikipedia

Vishnu is supreme deity to Vaishnavas, Shiva is the supreme deity to Saivites, Devi the supreme deity to Shaktas. Though, there are numerous other ways of looking at at; essentially a Hindu is free to pick their Ishta Devata(preferred example of God) and worship them as the supreme deity. Some worship Ganesh, others Rama. How you connect with the Brahaman(who isn't a deity, but just is) isn't important, just so long as you find a way to connect that speaks to you.

Brahman is not to be confused with Brahma. Brahman is the All, that without attributes, the incomprehensible(how can one properly describe what can't be defined?) Brahma is the creator deity.

I've seen good discussion on the Trimurti; it seems its focused on more by those outside of Hinduism rather than those within it, particularly those of a Western background. Overall, its not a concept that's often looked on by many Hindus, and Brahma himself is not worshipped. There are both mythological reasons for this, and I've seen good commentary on esoteric reasons on why this is not done.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Brahman is not to be confused with Brahma. Brahman is the All, that without attributes, the incomprehensible(how can one properly describe what can't be defined?) Brahma is the creator deity.

I see this is how we become worshippers of the 'Names' of God.

The Abrahamic Faiths have this same concept of Brahman the unknowable, unreachable God. Brahma is the creative Spirit, the Holy Spirit, given of God. That Spirit manifests to us in all the Names of the Messengers that have been Annointed with thay Holy Spirit.

This concept is complementary to all given Faiths. All it requires of us, that worship the unknowable God, is for us to embrace all those Names that have been given to us via that Creative Spirit.

The Concept that the Messengers send themselves, is reconcilable with the explanation you have given of the Hindu modes of worship.

Oh that we could discuss how this is all so, alas, the veil of Names!

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Are you implying that Muhammad, Moses, Noah and Abraham made the same claim?

What I have found is that when I started looking for the commonality of the fruits of the Messengers, I found I was able to see recorded passages in a different light, I could see in what was written a common thread.

Not every Messenger has disclosed their full Station. Messengers Such as Krishna and Jesus gave us a fuller extent of the Light that they were annointed with. They all offer the same Light, that is what I am implying I have found in the Scriptures, and I see that is what they also say we will find when we are born from the flesh into the Spirit.

The quandary we face in this age is that we have global communication, all those Names of God are easily referenced. In the past the first believers were not exposed to all the Names of God, just a line that came from their traditions.

Muhammad started introducing us to the wider concept of the unity of the Messengers, the world was opening to globalisation.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

fruits of the Messengers, I found I was able to see recorded passages in a different light, I could see in what was written a common thread.

I know. Cherry-picking

Not every Messenger has disclosed their full Station. Messengers Such as Krishna and Jesus gave us a fuller extent of the Light that they were annointed with

And Baha'u'llah too, of course

They all offer the same Light, that is what I am implying I have found in the Scriptures, and I see that is what they also say we will find when we are born from the flesh into the Spirit.

Also that only Baha'u'llah and his son and grandson speak final truth for all humanity for 800 years to come?

quandary we face in this age is that we have global communication, all those Names of God are easily referenced. In the past the first believers were not exposed to all the Names of God, just a line thay came from their traditions.

Which means every self declared new messiah Jesus Christ update?

Muhammad started introducing us to the wider concept of the unity of the Messengers, the world was opening to globalisation.

Muhammad in no way claimed to be any more than just a messenger; he in no way claimed for himself Messiah Christ status ... station ... whatever

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I know. Cherry-picking

And Baha'u'llah too, of course

Also that only Baha'u'llah and his son and grandson speak final truth for all humanity for 800 years to come?

Which means every self declared new messiah Jesus Christ update?


Muhammad in no way claimed to be any more than just a messenger; he in no way claimed fir himself Messiah Christ status ... station ... whatever

Muhammad said I am all the Messengers, that was inclusive of Jesus.

The veil of Names is not easily removed, every Messenger faced the tyranny imposed upon thier persons because of those veils.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Which means every self declared new messiah Jesus Christ update?

No, the Bible gives the tests were are to use, but we must use them.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

The eventual outcome is the need to manipulate Christian or Hindu scripture to try to shoehorn in Baha'u'llah or any other self-declared new age Christ

 

[RJM]

Muhammad said I am all the Messengers, that was inclusive of Jesus.

The meaning of the hadith is certainly not to contradict the Quran and elevate Muhammad (pbuh) beyond the status of a messenger to become himself a reflection or avatar of Allah imo

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The eventual outcome is the need to manipulate Christian or Hindu scripture to try to shoehorn in Baha'u'llah or any other self-declared new age Christ

The outcome is to embrace God in all God given Names.

That does not include false prophets.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

See next post

 

[RJM]

Ok. The problem is never anyone's right to venerate Baha'u'llah and submit to his teaching as final truth for all mankind for the next 800 years to come, if that is their wish. The problem is then instructing Christians to basically abandon Jesus as the outdated old Christ and instead to follow Baha'u'llah as the new Christ -- not only equal to Jesus the Son, but in the higher station of the Father.

There will obviously be a bit of push back? Especially when the only evidence is by using the holy scriptures of Christians to try to prove the fact -- which scriptures clearly do not, without extensive reinterpretation well beyond their meaning -- at least their meaning to Christians?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The problem is theni nstructing Christians to basically abandon Jesus as the Christ and instead to follow Baha'u'llah as the new Christ -- not only equal to Jesus the Son, but in the higher station of the Father.

One would not a Baha'i, nor a Christian if they think that will be the process.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

One would not a Baha'i, nor a Christian if they think that will be the process.

Regards Tony

Ok.

 

[RJM]

The return of the Christ in Christian belief is supposed to be final, at the end of the world and accompanied by the resurrection of the dead and final judgement -- separation of the sheep from the goats?

Nobody has to believe any such thing, but it cannot be denied as majority Christian belief. No doubt Baha'i can explain a way around this as Christian clinging to doctrine and needing to see with new eyes, for Baha'u'llah as the returned Christ, but should hardly be surprised that Christians don't buy it?

 

[Faithfulservant]

I've been thinking about this whole name of God thing and based on biblical scripture you are wrong.

Philippians 2:9–11
9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jews considered God's name too Holy to be spoken.

The name of Jesus is used as a curse word. Noone elses name is used as a curse word.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.” (Exodus 20:7)

This has not changed with the onset of new religions and especially those that consider the Christian Bible scripture.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The return of the Christ in Christian belief is supposed to be final, at the end of the world and accompanied by the resurrection of the dead and final judgement -- separation of the sheep from the goats?

Nobody has to believe any such thing, but it cannot be denied as majority Christian belief..

Mmm .. and majority Islamic belief is that Jesus will return as the Messiah/Christ,
who will fulfill the Jewish prophecies .. albeit as being the light for all of mankind, and not just the Jews.