Absolute Truth

TheLightWithin said:
I'm not sure what you mean.
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Basically not letting our inner hate and need for vengeance, lead to hateful actions against the perpetrator. If we have permanently lost something or someone because of what they did, reacting hostilely will not lead to a return of what we have lost. It will be better mentally to accept that loss and focus now on changing the criminal in a way that will not lead to a repeat of that action.

Norway, Sweden, Switzlerland and Germany are some of few countries that have radical rehab paths for prisoners.
 
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Faithfulservant said:
I finally understood that God is so Perfect, Holy, Just and Good that He truly cannot be in the presence of my sin.
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I have heard people explain it a little like this on a few occasions.
But then I had trouble reconciling that with Psalm 139:8: "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."
Also, this explanation (as offered by yourself and others) felt fully consistent with the doctrine of conditional immortality as well.
 
TheLightWithin said:
I have heard people explain it a little like this on a few occasions.
But then I had trouble reconciling that with Psalm 139:8: "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."
Also, this explanation (as offered by yourself and others) felt fully consistent with the doctrine of conditional immortality as well.
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For me this is what I believe..

Psalm 138 was penned by King David who was a beloved of God. Prior to the NT and Jesus Christ coming to save the world .. that was the God of Israel and they were saved by their faith the loved God and believed Him. that Psalm and promise is for believers in that faith. You can't take that one Psalm and disregard the consequences of sin taught from Genesis to Revelation.
 
Faithfulservant said:
that was the God of Israel and they were saved by their faith the loved God and believed Him. that Psalm and promise is for believers in that faith.
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Would that imply that the statement is true for faithful Jews only? (God's presence no matter where they go-?) and not a general statement of fact?
 
TheLightWithin said:
Would that imply that the statement is true for faithful Jews only? (God's presence no matter where they go-?) and not a general statement of fact?
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No. If I'm understanding your statement correctly. The gospel message of Jesus Christ was proclaimed to the Jew first and then the Gentile.

Matthew 15:21-28 He even tried to rebuff a Canaanite woman saying He came only for the lost sheep of Israel. Salvation to the Gentile came later. The apostles always preached in the synagogues first when entering a city.

This link answers it in more detail from an apologetic biblical view.

www.gotquestions.org

Why did Paul say the gospel brings salvation to the Jew first and then the Gentile? | GotQuestions.org

Why did Paul say the gospel brings salvation to the Jew first and then the Gentile? What is the meaning of “to the Jew first” in Romans 1:16?
www.gotquestions.org

Just know that In my faith Jesus is the only means of Salvation for the world. There is no way to the Father but through Him. Taking one part of scripture and leaving the rest is akin to Russian roulette IMO. It would be irresponsible for me to agree to a world view as that is contrary to God.

Ezekiel 3:18-19 When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.

Pretty scary warning for me personally.
 
Vasu Devan said:
It will be better mentally to accept that loss and focus now on changing the criminal in a way that will not lead to a repeat of that action.
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That sounds right next door to saying just accept your loss and live with your grief and try to fix the perpetrator without hurting them nor costing them anything in life nor making them feel any loss or pain.
That dumbfounds me.
It is TOO thoroughly counter-instinctive.
I don't know even know what to say to that.
Accepting a loss and coping with grief are big tasks that take a long time.
Fixing and changing other people is usually a fool's errand. People change if they want to work at changing, or if they utterly have to change due to the high cost of not changing, or to save their lives, and even then, they don't always change.
 
Faithfulservant said:
No. It means that person will have been responsible for the other mans death.
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His blood I will require at your hand...
I would have read that as a requirement to kill.
Must be something in the translation. It's oddly worded and I never would have interpreted as anything but an instruction to kill, and I'm sure I found it odd and hard to understand when I first read the bible through as a teen.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Fixing and changing other people is usually a fool's errand. People change if they want to work at changing, or if they utterly have to change due to the high cost of not changing, or to save their lives, and even then, they don't always change.
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It may seem like a fool's errand because of societal and cultural conditioning of the nation you serve. Other nations have gone against the grain and implemented it to find that it works. In any case, caging a person up for a while, in an environment where job skills can't be learned, and then throwing them out and expecting them to start earning money legally, while burdened with a criminal record leading to discrimination, so as to avoid the same reality that required them to become criminals before....doesn't sound like a fool errand?
 
Vasu Devan said:
It may seem like a fool's errand because of societal and cultural conditioning of the nation you serve. Other nations have gone against the grain and implemented it to find that it works. In any case, caging a person up for a while, in an environment where job skills can't be learned, and then throwing them out and expecting them to start earning money legally, while burdened with a criminal record leading to discrimination, so as to avoid the same reality that required them to become criminals before....doesn't sound like a fool errand?
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Not sure if you are politely referring to the US penal system? Most states provide anti recidivism programs and push drug rehab as part of the probation requirements. There is a percentage of inmates that benefit and take advantage of this but not as much as you would think.you can't force someone to change..they have to want to. I know people that have come out of prison with job skills and degrees and then I've known people that get out and start reoffending right away.
 
Vasu Devan said:
Basically not letting our inner hate and need for vengeance, lead to hateful actions against the perpetrator. If we have permanently lost something or someone because of what they did, reacting hostilely will not lead to a return of what we have lost. It will be better mentally to accept that loss and focus now on changing the criminal in a way that will not lead to a repeat of that action.

Norway, Sweden, Switzlerland and Germany are some of few countries that have radical rehab paths for prisoners.
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Nonsense.
 
Vasu Devan said:
Most criminals in this world have done what they did because they faced a life of abuse and hardship, even as children. They did not enjoy what they did unlike the villains portrayed in movies. No one starts a life of evil because they truly want to but rather because they are forced to. When few other options are available.
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So?

Do you think only criminals face abuse and hardship?

If non criminals also face abuse and hardship, and still manage to lead moral lives, then this is a cop out. Frankly, it is the road to anarchy.

If someone breaks into my house while I am there, I should just kill them, because I've faced abuse and hardship. I should just spit on soldiers returning from war because I've faced abuse and hardship. I should rob banks because I've faced abuse and hardship. I should have a carte blanche get out of jail free card because I've faced abuse and hardship. I should never practice morals because I've faced abuse and hardship.

Nonsense.

My step father, whom I dearly loved, was brutally tortured to death in his own home. The perp was never caught.

I hate that person. That is my burden to carry. That person has demonstrated he wants someone to brutally extinguish his life.

Anyone can get out of any situation they find themselves in if they truly wish to. People choose to be where they are at, especially upon the age of majority.
 
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