Tackling the hard questions and quandaries of Faith

Oh please. You joined MY thread and showed zero respect. Once again get over yourself...your ego is massive.
What I have found, is that when we perceive an error in another, then we are only reflecting our own selves.

Ego, that is an interesting accusation, actually I am not known to be so, my wife would not agree, but I am happy to consider how that could be so.

Regards Tony
 
But doesn't that by default undermine the very religions you tout as underlying your faith? I get that the Jews don't hold Jesus, but Jesus was a Jew, and I am understanding here that after all the times I read how your faith blends with the Abrahamic faiths, this tells me your faith dismisses those very Abrahamic faiths?

I know it's a beautiful dream for everybody in the world to get along together, but I've always been uncomfortable with those who dine cafeteria style, picking and choosing from this faith and that. If your path is for you, it is not my place to say otherwise. Your path is not for me.
The idea of consolidating everyone into one big kettle always disturbed me. It might have something to do with the Book of Revelations.

You asked.🤔
A sign of a New Messenger is that they bring their own Book, their own Words God has given them to speak.

They will tie into past Revelations, but they are independent of them in the fact they bring a Message suited to the age they are given.

I see you have stated the quandary of Prophecy, as only God knows the Interpretation and those who God Annoints are the fulfilment and the Interpretation, only they can give the Interpretation.

It is not that we cherry pick any verses, it is that they are already applicable to the Messengers, since they were originally recorded. They are the first and the Last.

Big topic, happy to discuss. Regards Tony
 
A quandary is being in the position to choose between two equally unsatisfactory options, right? (I had to look it up.)

So if one's faith is full of equally unattractive alternatives, here's my question: Why have faith at all? Or put more positively, what makes it worth the continued torment of soldiering through all of these quandaries?
 
My thoughts are that God does, as God so chooses.
Say it again!

God comes to every sincere individual soul, each in his own unique way, regardless of time, place and religion -- or no religion.

Stop putting your own restrictions on God
 
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A sign of a New Messenger is that they bring their own Book, their own Words God has given them to speak.

They will tie into past Revelations, but they are independent of them in the fact they bring a Message suited to the age they are given.

I see you have stated the quandary of Prophecy, as only God knows the Interpretation and those who God Annoints are the fulfilment and the Interpretation, only they can give the Interpretation.

It is not that we cherry pick any verses, it is that they are already applicable to the Messengers, since they were originally recorded. They are the first and the Last.

Big topic, happy to discuss. Regards Tony
Clearly that is what you understand.

I politely disagree. It clashes with my understanding.

Be that as it may, I wish you no harm.
 
A quandary is being in the position to choose between two equally unsatisfactory options, right? (I had to look it up.)

So if one's faith is full of equally unattractive alternatives, here's my question: Why have faith at all? Or put more positively, what makes it worth the continued torment of soldiering through all of these quandaries?
The way I understand it, is it is our own opinions that divide. Quandary "is a state of perplexity or uncertainty, especially as to what to do; a dilemma". For us Faith is a subjective reality, when we state absolutes, we state them in Faith

With God and the Messengers there is no division, they one and all give to us the apex of understanding we can obtain in this reality.

So if people of two faiths clash in opinions and that leads to arguments, then we are both wrong. The bounty of the clash of opinions is an ability to broaden our relative truths.

The quandary is our ability to take in new frames of references, our willingness to search if they are a given Truth from God.

I see faith is a lifelong quandary, especially when we accept we are not the holders of truth.

Regards Tony
 
The way I understand it, is it is our own opinions that divide. Quandary "is a state of perplexity or uncertainty, especially as to what to do; a dilemma". For us Faith is a subjective reality, when we state absolutes, we state them in Faith

With God and the Messengers there is no division, they one and all give to us the apex of understanding we can obtain in this reality.

So if people of two faiths clash in opinions and that leads to arguments, then we are both wrong. The bounty of the clash of opinions is an ability to broaden our relative truths.

The quandary is our ability to take in new frames of references, our willingness to search if they are a given Truth from God.

I see faith is a lifelong quandary, especially when we accept we are not the holders of truth.

Regards Tony
Why state absolutes at all? Probably because stating faith as an absolute drives it home to others, which is in fact another form of indoctrination. It is true that each of our subjective realities is all we truly have, and faith falls into this realm. However, the reason why I, for instance, stand by my Faith is that it is the Belief that I truly consider correct, otherwise why would I remain on such a Path?
 
Why state absolutes at all? Probably because stating faith as an absolute drives it home to others, which is in fact another form of indoctrination. It is true that each of our subjective realities is all we truly have, and faith falls into this realm. However, the reason why I, for instance, stand by my Faith is that it is the Belief that I truly consider correct, otherwise why would I remain on such a Path?
I personally see because we have choices, we are logically and justly guided to the apex of what our choices can acheive. Each person will walk their own path, and be guided. It is up to us to embrace that guidance, thus the quandary we face.

Even though we are bound by our relative truths, the absolute possibilities of our current capacities has been shown and demonstrated to us . I see that is the Messengers and the Message they give, but also in this age we have been gifted the life of Abdul'baha as that example.

The Messengers and Messages given are 100% valid truth for the age we live in.

I can use examples of what Baha'u'llah offered as to what is required of humanity in this age, these are truths that are relative to this age, to me they have given as absolute requirements, if we are to find the peace and security of all humanity, others may see that differently.

Example Baha'u'llah offered that the Nations must disarm and set National Boarders. Failure to do this will prevent humanity from Obtaining Peace and security. Also many more requirements.

Regards Tony
 
So what is the central dilemma in your faith?
I see it is our nature and nurture and the extent we have already declined into Materialism.

When one finds the Message of Baha’u’llah, there is an enormous amount of change required, in many aspects of life. Challenges we need to face if we are to built the foundations of unity.

Regards Tony
 
I see it is our nature and nurture and the extent we have already declined into Materialism.

When one finds the Message of Baha’u’llah, there is an enormous amount of change required, in many aspects of life. Challenges we need to face if we are to built the foundations of unity.

Regards Tony

So the central dilemma you personally face in your own faith is having to choose between Baha'u'llah's message and your upbringing?
 
So the central dilemma you personally face in your own faith is having to choose between Baha'u'llah's message and your upbringing?
I see the challenge is a lot wider than my own self. As materialism is all around us, it has crept in without us realising they have been caught up in its devices. One example is extremely foul language. Where I live the most obscene words are used in every day conversations, at work in mixed company. The influence of that becomes wider and wider at a time when we have been called to become pure in mind and thought.

For gosh sake even Spock in Star Treck used swear words, and others.

( My grandmother would not be pleased if I had used 'Darn it' to express a disappointment)

Regards Tony
 
I see it is our nature and nurture and the extent we have already declined into Materialism.

When one finds the Message of Baha’u’llah, there is an enormous amount of change required, in many aspects of life. Challenges we need to face if we are to built the foundations of unity.

Regards Tony
That's where Christianity differs. Our nature is to rebel against God and when one receives Christ and the baptism of the Holy Spirit we are justified as if we never sinned and continuous sanctification where God changes us.. it is nothing we do. We are a new creation. We can't change a thing apart from God. There is no unity as the world hates Christ. He said He didn't come to bring peace but a sword.

Matthew 10 34“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35For I have come to ‘set[j] a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
 
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That is not what I am thinking Thomas. I accept humanity as it is, I will submit to the whole by being the most loving and peaceful servant I can find within my own self.

I see oneness contains all our diversity. No two people are identical, no two people see life through the same eyes.
There you go then ... even your Counsels manifest differently ...

What I personally cannot vision is a Most Great Peace without a majority offering submission unto God's Counsel's, which would mean a universal acceptance and submission to those Councels. Is that not really how both the birth of Christianity and Islam came about on a global scale?
My point being two things:
Peace on Earth requires one rule – the Golden Rule – no belief in God, personal or otherwise, is necessary to attain to that.

That said, I see no light on any horizon signalling that ... in fact the reverse ... and once climate change starts to gather pace, then we will see migrations from the equator towards the poles and then God help us all ...


My understanding is that the Lesser Peace is not built on that foundation, it will be built on a political unity, forced upon them by increasing world shaking convulsions and a conflict to end all global conflict.
I rather fear events will overtake us arriving at any political accord ...
 
That's where Christianity differs. Our nature is to rebel against God and when one receives Christ and the baptism of the Holy Spirit we are justified as if we never sinned and continuous sanctification where God changes us.. it is nothing we do. We are a new creation. We can't change a thing apart from God. There is no unity as the world hates Christ. He said He didn't come to bring peace but a sword.
That Is a view of the Bible I have not seen in that light, as in this world it is obvious that words really help no one who is in great need. I always wondered why one might think only words save them. Also I see an new day has dawned, thus I personally see that Faith now requires service and deeds, I see the Bible supports the fact that deeds define true faith.

A declaration of Faith is indeed the starting point, after that the deeds must outweigh our words and we must embrace Christ before deeds can have full effect.

"O servant of God! The day of deeds hath come: Now is not the time for words."(Baha'u'llah, Tabernacle of Unity, paragraph 5.5 p. 73)

Which means to me, I must strive to spend less time on IF, BF and RF.

"The essence of faith is fewness of words and abundance of deeds; he whose words exceed his deeds, know verily his death is better than his life."
(Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 156)

All the best, in life and faith, Regards Tony.
 
I'm still trying to see the two horns of your dilemma, which you are facing, personally. The quandary you keep alluding to.
The standard God gives us to live by, is the standard of the perfect human.

That to me, is a quandary for every person, as every choice is weighing the required standard against the actions we will take.

When we know of that standard, in a world that has nearly let them all slide, well?

Regards Tony
 
I rather fear events will overtake us arriving at any political accord ...
Baha'u'llah offered that the majority of humanity will not embrace the Councels given by the Pen of the Most High until an event that cause the limbs of mankind to shake. Shoghi Effendi has said there will be a 3rd world conflict and that this event may coincide with that conflict, where all cities are in great danger.

There is quite a lot of sufficiently detailed prophecy in the Baha'i Writings, that we should be anxiously concerned for the needs of our age.

There will be a group of high minded sovereign's who will eventually set the path for the foundations of a workable global governance.

I wish you well, happy and safe.

Regards Tony
 
I personally see because we have choices, we are logically and justly guided to the apex of what our choices can acheive. Each person will walk their own path, and be guided. It is up to us to embrace that guidance, thus the quandary we face.

Even though we are bound by our relative truths, the absolute possibilities of our current capacities has been shown and demonstrated to us . I see that is the Messengers and the Message they give, but also in this age we have been gifted the life of Abdul'baha as that example.

The Messengers and Messages given are 100% valid truth for the age we live in.

I can use examples of what Baha'u'llah offered as to what is required of humanity in this age, these are truths that are relative to this age, to me they have given as absolute requirements, if we are to find the peace and security of all humanity, others may see that differently.

Example Baha'u'llah offered that the Nations must disarm and set National Boarders. Failure to do this will prevent humanity from Obtaining Peace and security. Also many more requirements.

Regards Tony
That's a LOT of FAITH!
 
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