Tackling the hard questions and quandaries of Faith

Thomas said:
No, the logical error is prior to that. It's not about what's said, it's about the requirement to accept everyone who says they're a prophet, or whatever.
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Logically, if we are to accept God's Covernants, then out of all the claims, some can be true. We were warned that many would be false and we should judge them.

A key I see that is applicable, is that we can discount immediately any claim that uses the Bible and name of Jesus Christ as a foundation.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
would offer RJM that is answered by asking the same question of Jesus. Why should anyone beleive in Jesus as the Christ? What answer we can provide to that question, is applicable to Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah and all the Prophets.
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And every other self-declared new Christ Messiah. Muhammad certainly did not declare equality with Jesus. You've got that wrong. Whatever ... dude ... go with your heart ...I'm out. No more from me here
 
Surely God speaks clearly, not in many words
 
RJM said:
And every other self-declared new Christ Messiah. Muhammad certainly did not declare equality with Jesus. You've got that wrong. Whatever ... dude ... go with your heart ...I'm out. No more from me here
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It is the heart that brings and sustains me here RJM.

One can look at the evidence. Muhammad offered he was all the Prophets. Baha'u'llah confirmed Muhammad offered this.

Here is one effort to compile that line of understanding. (A Christains response)

Muhammad said: I am ALL the Prophets

description.
answering-islam.org

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I would offer RJM that is answered by asking the same question of Jesus. Why should anyone beleive in Jesus as the Christ? What answer we can provide to that question, is applicable to Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah and all the Prophets.

I see it is submission unto our One God, it is submission unto Love, Justice, Truthfulness and Trustworthiness, it is taking up the cross and following Christ and not our own perceptions.

Regards Tony
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Considering 1/3 of the bible is prophesy and most were fulfilled at His first coming not to mention the witnesses that gave testimony of Him that make up the bible. I wouldn't compare them to Him.

You talk of picking up the cross but you deny His death and resurrection.. empty vain words.

If you truly knew what it meant to do that...

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers
 
Faithfulservant said:
Considering 1/3 of the bible is prophesy and most were fulfilled at His first coming not to mention the witnesses that gave testimony of Him that make up the bible. I wouldn't compare them to Him.
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This is a quandary faced in every age with prophecy. Yes Jesus did fulfill many Prophecies, but not all were filled outwardly in the time of Jesus, there are many that awaited the return of the Holy Spirit in God's Chosen Messengers, who were yet to come.

It can be justly demonstrated and seen that Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are foretold of in Proohecy.

I can also offer many witnesses that gave testimony to them as well.

Regards Tony
 
Faithfulservant said:
You talk of picking up the cross but you deny His death and resurrection.. empty vain words.
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No my words are honest and sincere, I 100% accept the Life, Sacrifice and Resurrection of Jesus as Christ, the foundation that Jesus told Peter the Church would be built upon.

A different frame of reference is not a denial.

Be careful with accusations, I am sure you are aware of the Biblical guiding passages in this regard.

Regard Tony
 
Faithfulservant said:
If you truly knew what it meant to do that...

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers
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Again be cautious, this may be applicable to one's own stance. Remember Jesus also warms us that many will call out in His name, but Jesus said I don't know you.

So this is a quandary, a balancing act with our own self examination. What is it to Love Jesus the Christ, in the full Glory of God? Something we all have to work at.

Regards Tony
 
Sorry but I will not accept reproving from you. You continuously do this and it's not appreciated or accepted. You are not my spiritual elder as you deny my Lord and Savior and have replaced Him with a god of your choosing. So stop ok?
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Is it possible, if the conversation is civil, to do this without a person being insulted?

If a valid answer is provided, one that challenges one's own faith, is it possible to just agree to disagree?

I see we can.

Regards Tony
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I'm a little late to the discussion but, what exactly IS the discussion? LOL . . . sorry 🥸
 
Faithfulservant said:
Sorry but I will not accept reproving from you. You continuously do this and it's not appreciated or accepted. You are not my spiritual elder as you deny my Lord and Savior and have replaced Him with a god of your choosing. So stop ok?
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Consider deeply, that it is you that joined the OP. 👌💖

Regards Tony
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
I would have to hear these 'hard questions' first before I can comment
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Maybe you have some that you wish to share, keeping in mind what post # 1 is offering as noted below!

"Is it possible, if the conversation is civil, to do this without a person being insulted?

If a valid answer is provided, one that challenges one's own faith, is it possible to just agree to disagree?"

I see we can."

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Maybe you have some that you wish to share, keeping in mind what post # 1 is offering?

Regards Tony
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Gotcha . . . okay, most Faiths are founded on something which is 'felt' but not objectively real. These Faiths are indoctrinated into the person sometimes from birth, so there is usually no 'doubt' in the person as the Faith is perpetuated and confirmed over and over again as Truth.

On the Western Left Hand Path, we have Faith as well however, it is based on a deep connection with our Greater Self/Psyche/Soul/GodSelf. At first glance, it could be said that we too have no objective evidence for our faith in a Greate Self, yet this is wrong to assume. We all have moments where we excel beyond our human form and attain the act of Creation, mostly in the Arts. This is Us becoming consciously aware of our Greater Self, the Perfected Self, It shows Itself to us through these creative acts. Any act that is more than human is a glimpse of this Self.

Adherents of the Western Left Hand Path embrace these moments, seek them out further, harness them, and attempt to bring our Greater Self/GodSelf further into our mundane existence.

This process is very different than relying on religious hearsay and not questioning a religion's point of Faith as it is directly perceived and experienced.
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
A key I see that is applicable, is that we can discount immediately any claim that uses the Bible and name of Jesus Christ as a foundation.
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But doesn't that by default undermine the very religions you tout as underlying your faith? I get that the Jews don't hold Jesus, but Jesus was a Jew, and I am understanding here that after all the times I read how your faith blends with the Abrahamic faiths, this tells me your faith dismisses those very Abrahamic faiths?

I know it's a beautiful dream for everybody in the world to get along together, but I've always been uncomfortable with those who dine cafeteria style, picking and choosing from this faith and that. If your path is for you, it is not my place to say otherwise. Your path is not for me.
The idea of consolidating everyone into one big kettle always disturbed me. It might have something to do with the Book of Revelations.

You asked.🤔
 
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'Amir Alzzalam said:
Gotcha . . . okay, most Faiths are founded on something which is 'felt' but not objectively real. These Faiths are indoctrinated into the person sometimes from birth, so there is usually no 'doubt' in the person as the Faith is perpetuated and confirmed over and over again as Truth.

On the Western Left Hand Path, we have Faith as well however, it is based on a deep connection with our Greater Self/Psyche/Soul/GodSelf. At first glance, it could be said that we too have no objective evidence for our faith in a Greate Self, yet this is wrong to assume. We all have moments where we excel beyond our human form and attain the act of Creation, mostly in the Arts. This is Us becoming consciously aware of our Greater Self, the Perfected Self, It shows Itself to us through these creative acts. Any act that is more than human is a glimpse of this Self.

Adherents of the Western Left Hand Path embrace these moments, seek them out further, harness them, and attempt to bring our Greater Self/GodSelf further into our mundane existence.

This process is very different than relying on religious hearsay and not questioning a religion's point of Faith as it is directly perceived and experienced.
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Indoctrination can be an issue, but it needs not to be, we still get our choices.

I would also offer in return, that for one to have a strong Faith, not only is it felt, but is also objectively proved and real, but will be limited to our relative experiences, perceptions and understandings.

In my case it took the objectively determination of the given proofs, before I eventually really felt what I had embraced.

Happy to discuss. Regards Tony
 
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