The Mystery of God’s Will Unfolding in this Matrix 2

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg i've been entertaining the idea that you don't study the Quran like you do the bible for validation of your religion. I don't see you quoting it. Do you not know it? Does it have something to do with your mom accepting Jesus as her personal savior? I just think there's something about this disparity that is worth questioning and I'm curious. We have a few active Muslim members that would probably participate in your discussions. I feel like I'm monopolizing all your best stuff as it's centered around who Jesus says He was.

I have not studied the Quran, nor the Bible in any true sense of the word. I have read them both, dabbled in certain aspects of them a little.

When Muslims ask questions, we can likewise read and quote the Quran, using that same key of Oneness and the fact thay God Never leaves us alone without guidance. Thus the challenge for a Muslim then becomes the doctrine of the "Last Messenger". ( There is always challenges, that is the nature of this matrix and the mystery of God's Will.)

Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

My reading of both those texts are with the key of oneness given by Baha'u'llah. When I read them and other Holy Books, I look for the connections that flow from Oneness.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

I have not studied the Quran, nor the Bible in any true sense of the word. I have read them both, dabbled in certain aspects of them a little.

When Muslims ask questions, we can likewise read and quote the Quran, using that same key of Oneness and the fact thay God Never leaves us alone without guidance. Thus the challenge for a Muslim then becomes the doctrine of the "Last Messenger". ( There is always challenges, that is the nature of this matrix and the mystery of God's Will.)

Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

My reading of both those texts are with the key of oneness given by Baha'u'llah. When I read them and other Holy Books, I look for the connections that flow from Oneness.

An immersive experience of the cult-mind process, imo

Interesting

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Hmm, I guess there's not much else to say. My faith and a lot of other people's faith doesn't include Baha'u'llah and I just can't agree with the suggestion that that is a bad thing, or damaging. I have a relationship with God outside of Baha'i (or any organized religion at this point), and I don't need Baha'u'llah's teachings to have a vibrant, beneficial faith in God.

All the best to you Modesty, may you remain safe, happy and always well.

My observations is, that what you have offered is the Challenge every Messenger of God brings to us, do we need the fruits of the Spirit, or do we not need them. (This is what creates the balance of health in the body of humanity)

That is basically Faith 101, every Messenger has brought guidance and laws suited to an age, to create harmony in our oneness to bring unity to humanity. That is how both Jesus and Muhammad brought about change unto many people and guided Nations.

The undbound liberty of this age has obscured submission unto God and the consequences of that are now unfolding around us in both human conflict and natural disasters. As we continue on the path of preference to our own will, over God's Councels, the convulsions will increase in rapidity and in severity, as the balance is now well in the favor of destruction.

Alas, it seems we are not, as a united humanity, now able to avert what will now undoubtedly come, which will initiate great change.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

It's a mind opening inside experience if the cult-mind process, imo

An immersive experience of the cult-mind

Another default accusation. Used since time began against all true Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

Another default accusation. Used since time began against all true Messengers.

And all the false ones too ...

 

[Faithfulservant]

I always go back to the same thing when others claim to be Christ. Jesus tells us to not be alarmed when the world hates us as it hated Him first. Jesus Christs name is used as a curse word worldwide..after all His name is above all other names. I never hear anyone use the name of Bab or Baha'lu'llah as a curse word. I had never even heard of them until you tbh. I guess that would be a mouthful?

I've seen and experienced miraculous things when the name of Jesus is called upon.

Imo you are deceived by pretty and fanciful fables. I'm looking forward to meeting your mom. I'm sure she was a lovely lady.

God bless you Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I'm looking forward to meeting your mom. I'm sure she was a lovely lady.

My mother was a wonderful and loving person.

Not sure of I told you, but my mother did disown my wife and I at one time, spurred on by a specific denomination she had chosen to follow, based apparently in biblical law. I still have that letter.

After a couple of years, I got another letter apologising, as it was an incorrect application of the Law, not supported by the New Testament. Our conversations were much like our exchanges. My spurring her on to see humanity as One under One God, My mother Stating the Name Jesus is above all.

We will all meet in the world of lights, no interaction in this matrix is devoid of meaning.

God bless, much Love in Christ, Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

And all the false ones too ...

Many have rejected the true, because of such a God given quandary.

That is God's Mystery for us to solve.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I always go back to the same thing when others claim to be Christ. Jesus tells us to not be alarmed when the world hates us as it hated Him first. Jesus Christs name is used as a curse word worldwide..after all His name is above all other names.

This statement stands out, as it is a Biblical sign of a True Prophet, note verse 2.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I only offer this to you as you can see Baha'u'llah fulfilled the requirements of the confession about Jesus Christ, even if you do not accept He is a Messenger.

"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.

Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[muhammad_isa]

We will all meet in the world of lights, no interaction in this matrix is devoid of meaning..

Indeed .. G-d will judge between us all on the day of judgement.

Believers in the One G-d of Abraham have nothing to fear, if they tread a path of righteousness.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Indeed .. G-d will judge between us all on the day of judgement.

Believers in the One G-d of Abraham have nothing to fear, if they tread a path of righteousness.

A quandary indeed. What is it to believe in One G-d?

This OP offers it is a mystery larger than we have previously considered.

Peace and happiness be with you muhammad_isa


Regards Tony

 

[Faithfulservant]

My mother was a wonderful and loving person.

Not sure of I told you, but my mother did disown my wife and I at one time, spurred on by a specific denomination she had chosen to follow, based apparently in biblical law. I still have that letter.

After a couple of years, I got another letter apologising, as it was an incorrect application of the Law, not supported by the New Testament. Our conversations were much like our exchanges. My spurring her on to see humanity as One under One God, My mother Stating the Name Jesus is above all.

We will all meet in the world of lights, no interaction in this matrix is devoid of meaning.

God bless, much Love in Christ, Regards Tony

I've seen the bondage of many Christians in trying to follow the law. Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light. I'm glad your mom broke free of those chains.

 

[Faithfulservant]

This statement stands out, as it is a Biblical sign of a True Prophet, note verse 2.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I only offer this to you as you can see Baha'u'llah fulfilled the requirements of the confession about Jesus Christ, even if you do not accept He is a Messenger.

"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.

Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

I'm not in the mood to read your misinterpretations of the bible. Maybe later. Take care Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I'm not in the mood to read your misinterpretations of the bible. Maybe later. Take care Tony

That is life, the sum of our choices.

You take care as well.

Regards Tony

 

[Thomas]

That is an observation we could consider.

Bearing in mind a comet is just fading in our solar system, and yet another, hopefully more spectacular, is due next year.

Taking these observations into account, it's easy to see how some people retro-fit astronomical observations to suit their agenda.

The Gospels record a Star that heralded Jesus. My guess is that only a few people understood that was a sign.

No need to guess, old fruit. Not everyone's an astronomer.

I remember my wife and I waking our pree-teen daughters in the middle of the night to come and view a particularly impressive astronomical event. They were profoundly unimpressed ...

More than likely it is not known what Star that was. So basically it is an event seen only by a few.

Ah, no, you con't conflate the two like that, or make unfounded assumptions.

Likewise it will be the same for all Manifestations of God, as for the Stars that heralded the Bab and Baha'u'llah, the book is open to which one's they were, ut is not set in concrete.

Quite ... so easy to retro-fit ...

Baha'u'llah offered this...

Irrelevant.

 

[Thomas]

The key here is that amongst the false, God gives us the True Messengers and they are the only embodiment of the Holy Spirit ...

And as your arguments concerning the Holy Spirit in the New Testament are flawed, that casts your message into doubt.

No other human is Annointed with the Holy Spirit.

Not according to the Abrahamic Traditions. Here, again, is clear evidence that the god of the Baha'i is not the God of (traditional) Jews, Christians and Muslims.

('traditional' to allow for modern religious denominations with their own idiosyncratic interpretations.)

The voice of the Baha'i is not the same voice I hear in the Hebrew Scriptures, the New Testament, nor the Noble Quran ... so that tells me ...

We need the 'Spirit of Faith' –

If by 'spirit' I assume you mean the human quality (eg 'the spirit of the occasion') then yes, that's a given in every tradition. That's 101.

Faith in the Abrahamics is basically a trust in God. The classic lesson in faith is the Centurion in Matthew 8. Or even better, Job.

... to be born again into that Spirit by submission to God's Will reflected from the Messengers. That is why Jesus said we must be born again, born from the human Spirit, embracing the Spirit of Faith into the light of the Holy Spirit.

Once again, a misinterpretation to insinuate your messenger between humanity and God.

Rebirth is not 'reflected from the messenger', it's a direct participation in the Life of the Holy Spirit (cf Romans 8:5) and by which we participate in the Passion of Christ and are made anew in Him.

One of the most powerful moments in the Christian Liturgy is the final doxology:
“Through Him, with Him and in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honour is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever.”
A most profound prayer, and I have witnessed a congregation caught up in the moment and voice that collectively when it is to be said by the celebrant alone. That, for me, was a clear sign of faith.

As discussed elsewhere, I cannot accept a teaching that seeks to shut down the spiritual and the mystical in the lives of the common faithful.

This topic has many explanations in the Baha'i Writings that give great clarity to the Subject of the Spirits interaction in this Matrix.

Irrelevant.

 

[Thomas]

The Bible says it, Jesus says it.
Matthew 11:14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
Jesus also said Elijah always comes first.

Read Luke 1:17 – you've got the wrong end of the stick here.

 

[Thomas]

It is a quandary indeed. Offering other ways to view the same scriptures, which allows us to embrace all of humanity, in the great diversity of Faith, can be a challenge, especially if a previous interpretation has given exclusivity to a specific Messenger.

Sorry to beat the same old drum, but in our prior discussions about the nature of the Holy Spirit as revealed in John's Gospel, the Baha'i 'explanation' is demonstrably flawed, lacking coherent logic ... I pointed this out, there was no response ... so as I see it, the challenge was there, and you did not rise to it.

You can't have it both ways, Tony, you can't keep making these sentimental statements and then fail to back them up with substance.

These exclusive interpretations may seem harmless enough, the problem being as history has shown, is that eventually those mindsets end in dominant personalities, who want to control all minds to think the same way.

That's my problem with the Baha'i refutation of the idea of the Immanent Presence of the Divine in the soul.

 

[Thomas]

Imagine a world where Islam and Christianity do embrace each other in the Light that is God.

In fact talks at the highest level go one between all the world's religions – it's invariably on forums where you get someone declaring 'my way of the highway'

Even here, there are fruitful discussions ... it's only when someone insists on pushing their own agenda that issues arise.

+++

Yes, there are discords in the world, but if you're suggesting that we embrace the Baha'i and everything in the garden will be rosy, then the history of discontent within your own ranks refutes that. Glass houses, old son.

 

[Thomas]

Honestly I do not see that is the case. They are complimentary.

Then you haven't read them closely enough ...

Times change, God changes Laws to suit the age and people, but the basic foundational Morals and Virtues remain unchanged.

Again, not the God of the Abrahamics, thankfully.

Our God is above time and temporality.

I think what you mean is, people try and change God to suit ...