Was Muhammad Really Talking to Jibril? (CLOSED THREAD)

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RJM said:
All over again, you mean?

Yeshua Never Existed . . . Change my Mind

There is no conclusive evidence much less objective proof that Yeshua (the son of god/or god himself) ever existed. Change my mind . . . By the first century A.D., the Jews were looking for strong, magnetic leaders who could deliver them from the wrath of the Roman Empire. The Essenes developed...
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And here, from Page Five:

Follow Christ but not Christian

Posthumous writing means nothing only text that was actually authored by Yeshua would count as HIs philosophy. I don't think many historians would agree with you there.
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There are other threads too ...

Did Jesus Exist

25 min Fair and open Imo, although as a believer in the Incarnation, I obviously disagree with the conclusion. These scholarly videos make it so much easier to grasp the essentials than reading hundreds of pages of writing
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Sure, if there's some new evidence I'd like to hear about . . . is that unreasonable?
 
Naturalist said:
No, the texts haven't changed recently, they say what they say.
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I didn't intend to say that the text changed recently. But we need not have to accept that the interpretation of the old is correct; misery comes over the good and the evil, as rain comes over the good and the evil.
Naturalist said:
You can believe in sin, but you won't stay true it. What one has to do is concoct a "commentary" which provides an escape route to commit the sin.
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Choosing these escape routes, they only betray themselves and some others, but there's no escape route from God.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
Sure, if there's some new evidence I'd like to hear about . . . is that unreasonable?
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There's no new evidence, and we have already discussed it with you. I cannot change your mind and you can't change the minds of the others here (I think you are the only one here who claims that Jesus didn't exist)
 
talib-al-kalim said:
I didn't intend to say that the text changed recently. But we need not have to accept that the interpretation of the old is correct; misery comes over the good and the evil, as rain comes over the good and the evil.

Choosing these escape routes, they only betray themselves and some others, but there's no escape route from God.
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So, what you're saying is, you can interpret the texts as you please, accept or not accept the old. Essentially, manufacturing your own escape route from text passages you don't like.

Fortunately, God doesn't exist, so you, like many other millions, can do that. Most of the time, there are no real consequences.
 
muhammad_isa said:
No .. I find your posts negative and without content. You offer nothing.
Why don't you elaborate on YOUR faith? Why attack mine?
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Without content? LOL . . . I offer nothing? LOL!
You just don't like the truth shoved in your face, too bad.
If it's any consolation, I attack the other Abrahamic faiths with equal virility ;)
 
talib-al-kalim said:
There's no new evidence, and we have already discussed it with you. I cannot change your mind and you can't change the minds of the others here (I think you are the only one here who claims that Jesus didn't exist)
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That's not true, some of my posts have changed the minds of some members who have contacted me in private . . . good for them.
 
Naturalist said:
So, what you're saying is, you can interpret the texts as you please, accept or not accept the old. Essentially, manufacturing your own escape route from text passages you don't like.
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We were talking about whether bad fate is a punishment of God. As you say you don't even believe that God exists, you must say it is not.

al-Ghazali said, it is not, but it is good for the soul if it happens sometimes because it makes us think about our lives (with God, he was a believing Muslim, but even if you don't believe, it, you may have experienced such, have you?)


Now, in my view, al-Ghazali was a wise man who lived with God, but I don't take his thoughts as infaillible. Everyone has his/her own experience.
By the way, Jesus also said what I wrote.
Naturalist said:
Fortunately, God doesn't exist,
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We have a difference here.
Naturalist said:
so you, like many other millions, can do that. Most of the time, there are no real consequences.
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The consequence need not be immediate failure, but it contributes to failure of us humans. The Word of the prophets is an advice to live in the global Law of God (which you will call differently but have also experienced).
 
talib-al-kalim said:
We were talking about whether bad fate is a punishment of God. As you say you don't even believe that God exists, you must say it is not.

al-Ghazali said, it is not, but it is good for the soul if it happens sometimes because it makes us think about our lives (with God, he was a believing Muslim, but even if you don't believe, it, you may have experienced such, have you?)


Now, in my view, al-Ghazali was a wise man who lived with God, but I don't take his thoughts as infaillible. Everyone has his/her own experience.
By the way, Jesus also said what I wrote.

We have a difference here.

The consequence need not be immediate failure, but it contributes to failure of us humans. The Word of the prophets is an advice to live in the global Law of God (which you will call differently but have also experienced).
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Are you asking whether or not I've had bad experiences (ie,"bad fate")? Yes.

Jesus never wrote anything.

God doesn't exist just because you imagine it. Stop imagining and start analyzing.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
If it's any consolation, I attack the other Abrahamic faiths with equal virility..
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Sure .. that is your faith .. to attack Abrahamic religion.
You want to 'paint it' as being the evil, while you slink off to hide and watch. 😐

You cannot 'take on' the Creator of the universe, without consequence.
Iblees cannot even create a fly!
 
@Naturalist

Would you care to post a short introduction about yourself in the intro forum?
-- About why you are here, and so on

Introductions

New? Feel free to introduce yourself and meet the other members here. :)
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Also swing by the Code of Conduct

Code of Conduct

Interfaith forum Code of Conduct Our group seeks to fulfil a mission of interfaith dialogue and exploration of others' beliefs while being a place to discuss the intricacies of our own belief in a safe format. Conduct 1. We aim to uphold a good standard of conduct in the forums. Please...
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muhammad_isa said:
Sure .. that is your faith .. to attack Abrahamic religion.
You want to 'paint it' as being the evil, while you slink off to hide and watch. 😐

You cannot 'take on' the Creator of the universe, without consequence.
Iblees cannot even create a fly!
Click to expand...
Actually no, the majority of the Left Hand Path don't care about the Abrahamic faiths and do not bother engaging with them as these faiths are seen as made-up and not worth talking about.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Sure .. that is your faith .. to attack Abrahamic religion.
You want to 'paint it' as being the evil, while you slink off to hide and watch. 😐

You cannot 'take on' the Creator of the universe, without consequence.
Iblees cannot even create a fly!
Click to expand...
I never said the religion is evil. It's just a bunch of stories. How some people behave as a consequence of reading these stories depends. Sometimes the behavior is good, sometimes not. It's certainly irrational.

Invisible things look a lot like imaginary things....that's your Creator.
 
Naturalist said:
Invisible things look a lot like imaginary things....that's your Creator.
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Dark Matter and Dark Energy are not visible, but they are extrapolated from their effects

It may be incorrect and there may be other explanations. But the only evidence for them is from their effects
 
@Naturalist
Are you proposing that nothing exists but what can be directly measured?

Human perception is limited by five animal senses of sight, hearing and so on. There are other animals that have extended senses. A dog's sense of smell, or a falcon's sight, exceeds human ability by far. All of our truly wonderful human scientific instruments and telescopes and microscopes and spacecraft and colliders and so on -- truly wonderful though they are -- are really just extensions of our five human animal senses.

Do you propose that the universe limits itself to what human beings and human senses are able to perceive and measure?
 
RJM said:
@Naturalist
Are you proposing that nothing exists but what can be directly measured?

Human perception is limited by five animal senses of sight, hearing and so on. There are other animals that have extended senses. A dog's sense of smell, or a falcon's sight, exceeds human ability by far. All of our truly wonderful human scientific instruments and telescopes and microscopes and spacecraft and colliders and so on -- truly wonderful though they are -- are really just extensions of our five human animal senses.

Do you propose that the universe limits itself to what human beings and human senses are able to perceive and measure?
Click to expand...
Not true, we have technology that enables us to 'expand' our limited senses. And you know what has been found in relation to something 'spiritual' going on?

SQUAT . . .
 
RJM said:
Dark Matter and Dark Energy are not visible, but they are extrapolated from their effects

It may be incorrect and there may be other explanations. But the only evidence for them is from their effects
Click to expand...
Yes, this is true. They are called "dark", not because they are black or anything similar. "Dark" refers to our lack of knowledge.

What we can say about their effects is that the effects are consistent.

Dark matter seems to be matter we can't see, we only see its gravitational effect. It could be our current theory of gravity needs modification, and dark matter doesn't exist. Dark energy causes space-time to expand. This could also be related to gravity or maybe something else.

We can't see viruses or. bacteria with our naked eyes, but they behave consistently.

One of the benefits of polytheism is that different gods acting out would explain the many inconsistencies of life. In monotheism, one god behaving so inconsistently is incredulous.
 
RJM said:
@Naturalist
Are you proposing that nothing exists but what can be directly measured?

Human perception is limited by five animal senses of sight, hearing and so on. There are other animals that have extended senses. A dog's sense of smell, or a falcon's sight, exceeds human ability by far. All of our truly wonderful human scientific instruments and telescopes and microscopes and spacecraft and colliders and so on -- truly wonderful though they are -- are really just extensions of our five human animal senses.

Do you propose that the universe limits itself to what human beings and human senses are able to perceive and measure?
Click to expand...
"Are you proposing that nothing exists but what can be directly measured?" No.

"Do you propose that the universe limits itself to what human beings and human senses are able to perceive and measure?" No, but we won't know about those things, since we can't perceive them.
 
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