on Faith

['Amir Alzzalam]

"Faith is belief in the absence of evidence" Carl Sagan​

There is a saying – 'the first thing one knows is the last thing one understands', and such is faith.

“Now faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not” (Hebrews 11:1), but, by the Grace of God, in some manner we can aspire to “the ultimate summit of your mystical knowledge, most incomprehensible, most luminous and most exalted, where the pure, absolute and immutable mysteries of theology are veiled in the dazzling obscurity of the secret Silence, outshining all brilliance with the intensity of their Darkness, and surcharging our blinded intellects with the utterly impalpable and invisible fairness of glories surpassing all beauty.” (Dionysius the pseudoAreopagite, The Mystical Theology, I, 1)

The 'ultimate summit' is such that it cannot be known, because it transcends all forms, and thus cannot be attained by knowledge, but only by faith, and a 'leap into the dark', which again, is what faith is.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Faith for me, is very much about putting my trust in God. Like St Peter, when he saw Jesus walking on water, he wanted to walk on water to meet Jesus. Peter had to do two things, take the first step out of the safety of the boat. When Peter stood on the water, his own strength meant nothing, he would become totally dependant on Jesus, if he was to walk on water.

I have been a Street Pastor since 2008, we walk round the streets of our town until 3 - 5 am in the morning to care, listen and help when we can. We put our trust in God and go. Recently, we were out, and about three in the morning, about twenty people started a fight outside our local kebab shop, run by Muslims. We intervened, and tried to calm things. A car drew up and two big lads got out, one went to the boot of his car and took out two large ratchets, big enough to cave someone's head in. I said to the lad, put them back, but he ignored me, and went straight into the fight.
I went with him, but was knocked over, I got up, and somehow the big lad dropped both tools in front of me, I was able to pick them up and walk away with them. A lad grabbed me and told me to give him the weapons, I said no, and kept walking away. I was able to hide them in a bin round the corner. The fight, posturing, threats and shouting continued for over an hour before the police came. I am 74, and was with three ladies.
When we see people getting hurt, and we are near enough to do something, I have always felt compelled to help when we can. I still struggle to understand how prayer works, I know in these situations, I should feel fear and worry, we should stand back and wait for the police. I can’t explain the profound sense of peace I have in these situations, it is almost like they take my peace from me, and I absorb some of their anger. We do very little, other than stand in the middle, or stand next to angry people.

Trusting in God is profound, and beyond my understanding, we seem to be able to make a big difference.

Thanks for sharing that service EricPH. It is great to see faith in action, that is exactly what it is all about, serving others.

That situation was well handled, I bet the adrenalin was flowing strongly.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

No doubt the world needs to change away from tyranny, war, nationalism, racism, immorality and materialism.

World does not need change, it is never going to change. Tyranny, war, nationalism, racism, immorality (Did you mean mortality?) have always been here and will always be here, irrespective of how many manifestations Allah may send.

 

[RJM]

... the Christian understanding on the nature of Jesus may be contributing to the problem?

But why should anyone who understands the nature of Christ need Baha'u'llah?

The point is he brings nothing new to the table.

Jesus's life covers it all already -- and infinitely more besides -- and with infinite grace and power.

Baha'u'llah may appeal to Shia Muslims or others who have never read the New Testament and so do not know the nature of Christ.

But Baha'u'llah offers nothing new that Jesus does not already offer

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But why should anyone who understands the nature of Christ need Baha'u'llah?

The point is he brings nothing new to the table.

Jesus's life covers it all already -- and infinitely more besides --far better and with power and grace.

Baha'u'llah may appeal to Shia Muslims or others who have never read the New Testament and so do not know the nature of Christ.

But Baha'u'llah offers nothing new that Jesus does not already offer

Without Baha'u'llah we do not have a fuller understanding of the natue of Jesus as the Christ, they are One in the Holy Spirit, with all the Messengers.

I would also have to offer you have not read of the life of the Bab. The nature of Christ was duplicated in the life of the Bab and any Glory given to Jesus is given to the Bab and visa versa.

Imagine the power of Christ emanating from the Bab, declaring to the Muslims and the entire world at the Kaaba, that He was the one awaited, the One round whom all Messengers revolve, knowing that His life was to he given in sacrifice for the One whom God would make manifest. The one awaited by all God given religions.

The nature of Christ is beyond our comprehensive ability, from what I understand, the Holy Spirit spans all the worlds of God, which are unlimited in number and each of these worlds are given a Christ and all these Names are One.

What a great topic this could become, the possibilities for the human race are endless, yet those possibilities all lay in the unity and oneness of humanity. Divided we fall, united we progress.

Regards Tony

 

[Thomas]

It is all about understanding who Christ is Thomas and we all could spend many a lifetimes doing that.

But, alas, we only have one.

In which case, as ever, it's best if one can to go straight to the source, and not be led astray by veils and flawed interpretations.

 

[Thomas]

I can offer that one may have to consider if the Christian understanding on the nature of Jesus may be contributing to the problem?

Or, just maybe, the Christians have it right ...

... maybe its the Christian who, like the Blessed Virgin, follows the way of the Illuminated Soul, and 'kept all these words, pondering them in her heart" (cf Luke 2:19) and thus centred in the Lord, the heart is purified by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who cries "Abba, Father" (Galatians 4:6, Romans 8:15) and truly knows Jesus in a way you cannot comprehend.

It may be that this prevents a Christian from searching for the returned Christ, as the nature of Jesus has been obscured in the fear of false prophets.

D'you know, when God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, the serpent came up and said, "Nah, don't listen to Him," and here you are, after Christ telling me to beware false prophets, you come along saying, "Nah, don't listen to Him."

+++

Now you might say, your men are not false prophets ...

... in which case I say, if that is so, then all well, and good for you, but I shall keep my heart focussed on Christ, and ignore the 'signs and wonders' of the world, because in Him I have the 'one thing necessary' and need for nothing else. I drink at the well of living water, and do not thirst for the words or works of another.

Tony, it seems to me that if one truly believes in Christ Jesus, if one truly sought Him, and found Him, then one would know it in one's heart, and there would be no need for any other – one cannot serve two masters.

Because He does not suffice for you, that says it all to me.

 

[Thomas]

What a person likes or does not like is immaterial. You are sure missing things in life. What about alcohol?

"Oh Lord, make me chaste ... but one last glass of Laphroaig first!"

 

[Thomas]

No doubt the world needs to change away from tyranny, war, nationalism, racism, immorality and materialism.

Agreed, but I would suggest the 'one size fits all' solution is definitely and demonstrably not the way.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Imagine the power of Christ emanating from the Bab, declaring to the Muslims and the entire world at the Kaaba, that He was the one awaited, the One round whom all Messengers revolve, knowing that His life was to he given in sacrifice for the One whom God would make manifest. The one awaited by all God given religions.

People with psychological illness say many things. Even in this forum, some members have claimed that they are God. One should sympathize with these people and not take their rants as truth. People take Jesus as the anointed Son of God/Ghost/Spirit and virgin Mary.

 

[wil]

But, alas, we only have one.

In which case, as ever, it's best if one can to go straight to the source, and not be led astray by veils and flawed interpretations.

The source? 66 books by a bunch of different authors and editors and translations and interpretations? And thousands of denominations claiming that their version is the unflawed one?

World does not need change, it is never going to change

The world is change, the only constant is change.

Shiva has become my favorite god, without mold, compost and decay we would be buried in feces and rotting corpses.

 

[Thomas]

The source? 66 books by a bunch of different authors and editors and translations and interpretations?

All around the samew subject. Many see that as a benefit ... and all those versions etc., say pretty much the same thing. Scholars agree that despite the number of discrepancies between texts, the basic theology is unaltered.

And thousands of denominations claiming that their version is the unflawed one?

Well you have to blame America for that – under US Law, religion is a commercial enterprise and a lot of people saw there was money to be made.

The world is change, the only constant is change.

In the world, yes.

Shiva has become my favorite god, without mold, compost and decay we would be buried in feces and rotting corpses.

LOL.

 

[RJM]

The nature of Christ was duplicated in the life of the Bab

But what's the point of duplicating what Jesus has already done? (Which I seriously do not agree was duplicated by the Bab, but still ...)

Why the need to piggyback on Jesus? Why the need to copy? (I do understand it may seem new to Muslims and others who don't know the New Testament Christ?

What's new or different?

Why should Christians who have Jesus now need the Baha'u'llah instead?

What's new or BETTER is the question?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Why should Christians who have Jesus now need the Baha'u'llah instead?

What's new or BETTER is the question?

RJM That is answered by John 16:12-14

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

We have been reminded of the laws of Chastity and sexual morality is one thing Christianity has slowly moved away from. Christ has not changed the law on Chasity and sexual morality, yet witness what is now taught in the various denominations. Baha'u'llah, the Spirit of Truth took that and showed it again to us.

There is a list I could offer as to what is new, but one will suffice on the topic of unity, a unity given but yet to be built.

"Unity. Three core assertions of the Baháʼí Faith, sometimes termed the "three onenesses", are central in the teachings of the religion. They are the Oneness of God, the Oneness of Religion and the Oneness of Humanity. They are also referred to as the unity of God, unity of religion, and unity of mankind."

This "Unity" contains many new teachings, either not given, or not achieved in past dispensations, so we have been shown again the meaning.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But, alas, we only have one.

In which case, as ever, it's best if one can to go straight to the source, and not be led astray by veils and flawed interpretations.

We lead ourselves astray Thimas by limiting our frames of references.

The "One" you have offered is seen as exclusive to Christianity, yet Christ is inclusive to all Faiths given by God, as Christ is all the Messengers sent in each age. Christ is the Annointing of the Hoky Spirit in the body of the chosen Messenger.

In accepting g Baha'u'llah, we embrace the same Holy Spirit that Jesus was Annointed with. Jesus said in John 10:30-38 "I and the Father are one.” Baha'u'llah came in the Station of the Father.

In the "Summons of the Lord of Hosts", in the Tablet to the Pope we read this.

"The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!” This is the Word which was preserved behind the veils of grandeur, and which, when the Promise came to pass, shed its radiance from the horizon of the Divine Will with clear tokens." – Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Agreed, but I would suggest the 'one size fits all' solution is definitely and demonstrably not the way.

It has to be unity in our diversity, but that unity will still requite us to practice the Counsels given by God and not Councels made up by men.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

People with psychological illness say many things. Even in this forum, some members have claimed that they are God. One should sympathize with these people and not take their rants as truth. People take Jesus as the anointed Son of God/Ghost/Spirit and virgin Mary.

Many people will not pursue justice. They prefer to muddy the waters, rather than find the truth, by being trustworthy and truthful. T
themselves.

These accusations were made and the Bab was found to be of sound mind. These accusations are made in the light of what I offered above.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But what's the point of duplicating what Jesus has already done? (Which I seriously do not agree was duplicated by the Bab, but still ...)

We forgot what it really meant.

You still have not read the story of the Bab, if you had, you honestly could not seriously disagree.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

Jesus was talking about Baha'u'llah? When last did you read the Gospel of John?

We have been reminded of the laws of Chastity and sexual morality is one thing Christianity has slowly moved away from. Christ has not changed the law on Chasity and sexual morality, yet witness what is now taught in the various denominations. Baha'u'llah, the Spirit of Truth took that and showed it again to us.

The Catholic Church, and most evangelist churches too

Denominations like the Church of England that allow same sex marriage do so for loving monogamous couples. They don't endorse sexual promiscuity

We forgot what it really meant.

Who did?

Baha'u'llah came in the Station of the Father.

This makes no metaphysical sense

"Unity. Three core assertions of the Baháʼí Faith, sometimes termed the "three onenesses", are central in the teachings of the religion. They are the Oneness of God, the Oneness of Religion and the Oneness of Humanity. They are also referred to as the unity of God, unity of religion, and unity of mankind."

Nothing new there.
Bob Marley: One Love
Martin Luther King
Countless others ...

"The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!” This is the Word which was preserved behind the veils of grandeur, and which, when the Promise came to pass, shed its radiance from the horizon of the Divine Will with clear tokens."

Just another self declared new messiah with grandiose illusions about himself

practice the Counsels given by God and not Councels made up by men.

Nothing new there

@Tony Bristow-Stagg
It's back to the same old loop from here on in, so ... unless you've anything new to offer ...

(edited ... sorry)

 

[Aupmanyav]

The world is change, the only constant is change.

Sure, the world changes every moment. This Hindus know as 'Nitya Pralaya' or the moment top moment rebirth in Buddhism.
"Nityapralaya refers to constant dissolution, the phenomenon that describes the daily entropy of the mind and the body of all living and non-living beings." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pralaya#Nityapralaya
I was talking about the changes that Tony thinks Bahaollah's teaching will bring about - tyranny, war, nationalism, racism, morality and materialism.
That is not going to change among humans, Bahaollah or no Bahaollah.