I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses

Faithfulservant said:
This answer is purposefully confusing. Is this a copy and paste? So do JW believe other than the 144000 male virgins are the sealed from the 12 tribes of Israel? I know that JW teach that that the 144000 are the only ones that go to heaven and co rule with Jesus. I want you to somehow justify that the scripture isn't anything other than literal. That somehow Jesus lied as that is His Revelation. He didn't literally mean 12000 out of each tribe male virgins sealed.

Spiritual Israel is replacement theology. There is also a dire warning at the end of this book

Rev 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

Good luck!
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If I may interject: Revelation 7 mentions a tribe of Joseph. Was there a tribe of Joseph in ancient Israel?
No.

That this is referring to spiritual Israel, can be understood from the Apostle Peter’s 1st letter. He was addressing his fellow Christians (of course), and in 1 Peter 2:9, he said, “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation…”
Notice, they were all included as a royal priesthood.

(In ancient Israel, only the Levites were the priestly class)

According to Revelation, these “chosen” Christians, with Christ, were to be both kings and priests, a “royal priesthood.”

As for @walter & I, we hope to be included with the “meek”, living here on “Earth” (Matthew 5:5) under their rulership, as subjects of God’s Kingdom. — Matthew 6:9,10; Revelation 21:3,4.

Hope this explains a little.

Take care, my cousin.
 
Adam’s Cowboy said:
If I may interject: Revelation 7 mentions a tribe of Joseph. Was there a tribe of Joseph in ancient Israel?
No.

That this is referring to spiritual Israel, can be understood from the Apostle Peter’s 1st letter. He was addressing his fellow Christians (of course), and in 1 Peter 2:9, he said, “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation…”
Notice, they were all included as a royal priesthood.

(In ancient Israel, only the Levites were the priestly class)

According to Revelation, these “chosen” Christians, with Christ, were to be both kings and priests, a “royal priesthood.”

As for @walter & I, we hope to be included with the “meek”, living here on “Earth” (Matthew 5:5) under their rulership, as subjects of God’s Kingdom. — Matthew 6:9,10; Revelation 21:3,4.

Hope this explains a little.

Take care, my cousin.
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I'm curious why wouldn't there be a tribe of Joseph? I think it was typically referred to as the house of Joseph He was a son of Israel (Jacob). Do you know that Jacob adopted Joseph's sons as his own Manasseh and Ephraim and they made up two of the tribes. The only tribe missing from this is Dan. Maybe the tribe of Joseph is Ephraim as Ephraim is not listed in Revelation 7. An interesting similarity is that that Josephs bride was a gentile as Jesus' bride is the gentile church.

Another thing to mention is that Jesus is our priest and not of the line of Levi but of the line of Melchizedek. As His children we are not of the line of Levi but of the line of Melchezidek.

Edit to add that Melchezidek was also a king 😊
 
moralorel said:
Nope. Just wanted verses that say that the dead go to heaven. Maybe some day. But thanks for trying and being so polite.
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Yes…. That’s interesting to think about, isn’t it?

The Bible talks a lot about the Earth & the future of humanity living on it - very little about going to or being in Heaven - yet, what does almost every religion teach? About going to Heaven immediately when you die.

But the Bible’s promise of an afterlife, is only found in its pages when it speaks of the Resurrection, a future event. (Two of them actually.)

It makes one wonder, “How did the Bible’s teachings get so misunderstood?”

Jesus indicated such a thing would happen with His parable of the wheat and the weeds. (Matthew 13:24-30) Some of those “weeds” He discussed in the Sermon on the Mount, in Matthew 7:21-23.
Notice, these ones were performing “powerful works”, even given the impression that they were “expelling demons”…. But not with Jesus’ power!
Who else, then, would be behind it? You know. — Matthew 13:39;
2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9

Hence, the admonition to keep our senses. — 1 Peter 5:7

Best wishes.
 
RJM said:
Hi @Caritas and welcome

I've always questioned why Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus was crucified on a stake, not on a cross as commonly believed.

The cross was the Roman method, and the term 'crucifixion' refers to a cross, not to a stake?
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have you ever considered that if the cross was placed ,in your view, that it could be stood upside down . standing a cross or even a pole with a man nailed to it is harder than you may imagine. with the cross bar near the bottom it serves as a aid in standing the thing up .it would look like a pole with a man hanging on it . the cross bar may of been removable to keep unauthorized people from pulling it up out of the ground to lay it down
 
locust said:
have you ever considered that if the cross was placed ,in your view, that it could be stood upside down . standing a cross or even a pole with a man nailed to it is harder than you may imagine. with the cross bar near the bottom it serves as a aid in standing the thing up.
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How? You'd have to have two cross-bars, one N-S the other E-W to provide stability (or at least three radii) to stop the thing toppling. That's more work than the assumed position.

From brief references of those sent for execution, it seems the convicted was sometimes paraded to the execution ground, and required to carry a beam to the execution site. It is entirely possible that the upright poles were permanent fixtures, a visible reminder, and the miscreant was then affixed to his cross-beam, which was hailed up with ropes and secured in place.

Handily, this settles the 'stauros' dispute – an upright post was a permanent fixture, with the crossbeam removable.
 
Thomas said:
How? You'd have to have two cross-bars, one N-S the other E-W to provide stability (or at least three radii) to stop the thing toppling. That's more work than the assumed position.

From brief references of those sent for execution, it seems the convicted was sometimes paraded to the execution ground, and required to carry a beam to the execution site. It is entirely possible that the upright poles were permanent fixtures, a visible reminder, and the miscreant was then affixed to his cross-beam, which was hailed up with ropes and secured in place.

Handily, this settles the 'stauros' dispute – an upright post was a permanent fixture, with the crossbeam removable.
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fact is there would be no standing cross or pole , it would be taken down to remove the dead body. or the whole thing could of been carried away to dispose of the body.
if you had ever tried to pull a pole up and out of a hole ,without the use of a handle /cross bar ,that by the way also has a man nailed to it. you will quickly realize its harder than you thought it would be . the shaft could of been 12-15' long where 3' of it is into the hole .
 
I'm more inclined to go with Golgotha as an execution ground outside Jerusalem, with the uprights permanently in place. There's no need to plant the pole every time ...
 
people tend to forget how clever the Romans were . they built roads engineered to last forever. aqueducts that carried water 40 + miles . siege towers to roll up to walls . battering rams to beat down walls .they were clever at building things . you should know they would know how to pull a stick out of the ground with the least amount of men to do the work.
 
Thomas said:
I'm more inclined to go with Golgotha as an execution ground outside Jerusalem, with the uprights permanently in place. There's no need to plant the pole every time ...
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granted if there was a pole set that had a rope ran up over the top to then pull a man up ,yes it would be easier to hang someone up. it would also of been easier for some one that did not want them hung up to get them down.
nails are hard to remove .climbing a ladder to then remove a nail ,when there is no smart place to place the ladder ,so that a person can use the right tool to even be able to get a purchase onto the nail to pull it. is harder then you may know. I do know BTDT
 
locust said:
people tend to forget how clever the Romans were . they built roads engineered to last forever. aqueducts that carried water 40 + miles . siege towers to roll up to walls . battering rams to beat down walls .they were clever at building things . you should know they would know how to pull a stick out of the ground with the least amount of men to do the work.
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So clever that they stole crucifixion as execution from the Persians. They couldn't find a better way to torture someone to death.
 
Faithfulservant said:
So clever that they stole crucifixion as execution from the Persians. They couldn't find a better way to torture someone to death.
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may of even improved on it . they were hideous .I cant even imagine being that mean to someone. not only did they almost beat a man to death but to then stretch them out and nail them to the wood ,stand it up to drop into the hole. left them to die a torchered death. if the man had not died in just a few hours they would break the legs . I had wondered how does that happen . but to think a block of wood to be put between a leg and the pole to then force the knee back to the pole snapping the bone . bad enough to think about it
 
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