I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses
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moralorel
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I'm certain we all will have plenty of surprises. While I don't look forward to my eventual end, I do look forward to seeing what will happen.Mmm .. G-d be with you.
No .. we will have to wait and see..
Adam’s Cowboy
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If I may interject: Revelation 7 mentions a tribe of Joseph. Was there a tribe of Joseph in ancient Israel?
No.
That this is referring to spiritual Israel, can be understood from the Apostle Peter’s 1st letter. He was addressing his fellow Christians (of course), and in 1 Peter 2:9, he said, “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation…”
Notice, they were all included as a royal priesthood.
(In ancient Israel, only the Levites were the priestly class)
According to Revelation, these “chosen” Christians, with Christ, were to be both kings and priests, a “royal priesthood.”
As for @walter & I, we hope to be included with the “meek”, living here on “Earth” (Matthew 5:5) under their rulership, as subjects of God’s Kingdom. — Matthew 6:9,10; Revelation 21:3,4.
Hope this explains a little.
Take care, my cousin.
Faithfulservant
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I'm curious why wouldn't there be a tribe of Joseph? I think it was typically referred to as the house of Joseph He was a son of Israel (Jacob). Do you know that Jacob adopted Joseph's sons as his own Manasseh and Ephraim and they made up two of the tribes. The only tribe missing from this is Dan. Maybe the tribe of Joseph is Ephraim as Ephraim is not listed in Revelation 7. An interesting similarity is that that Josephs bride was a gentile as Jesus' bride is the gentile church.
Another thing to mention is that Jesus is our priest and not of the line of Levi but of the line of Melchizedek. As His children we are not of the line of Levi but of the line of Melchezidek.
Edit to add that Melchezidek was also a king
Adam’s Cowboy
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Yes…. That’s interesting to think about, isn’t it?
The Bible talks a lot about the Earth & the future of humanity living on it - very little about going to or being in Heaven - yet, what does almost every religion teach? About going to Heaven immediately when you die.
But the Bible’s promise of an afterlife, is only found in its pages when it speaks of the Resurrection, a future event. (Two of them actually.)
It makes one wonder, “How did the Bible’s teachings get so misunderstood?”
Jesus indicated such a thing would happen with His parable of the wheat and the weeds. (Matthew 13:24-30) Some of those “weeds” He discussed in the Sermon on the Mount, in Matthew 7:21-23.
Notice, these ones were performing “powerful works”, even given the impression that they were “expelling demons”…. But not with Jesus’ power!
Who else, then, would be behind it? You know. — Matthew 13:39;
2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9
Hence, the admonition to keep our senses. — 1 Peter 5:7
Best wishes.
locust
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have you ever considered that if the cross was placed ,in your view, that it could be stood upside down . standing a cross or even a pole with a man nailed to it is harder than you may imagine. with the cross bar near the bottom it serves as a aid in standing the thing up .it would look like a pole with a man hanging on it . the cross bar may of been removable to keep unauthorized people from pulling it up out of the ground to lay it down
How? You'd have to have two cross-bars, one N-S the other E-W to provide stability (or at least three radii) to stop the thing toppling. That's more work than the assumed position.
From brief references of those sent for execution, it seems the convicted was sometimes paraded to the execution ground, and required to carry a beam to the execution site. It is entirely possible that the upright poles were permanent fixtures, a visible reminder, and the miscreant was then affixed to his cross-beam, which was hailed up with ropes and secured in place.
Handily, this settles the 'stauros' dispute – an upright post was a permanent fixture, with the crossbeam removable.
locust
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fact is there would be no standing cross or pole , it would be taken down to remove the dead body. or the whole thing could of been carried away to dispose of the body.
if you had ever tried to pull a pole up and out of a hole ,without the use of a handle /cross bar ,that by the way also has a man nailed to it. you will quickly realize its harder than you thought it would be . the shaft could of been 12-15' long where 3' of it is into the hole .
locust
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people tend to forget how clever the Romans were . they built roads engineered to last forever. aqueducts that carried water 40 + miles . siege towers to roll up to walls . battering rams to beat down walls .they were clever at building things . you should know they would know how to pull a stick out of the ground with the least amount of men to do the work.
locust
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granted if there was a pole set that had a rope ran up over the top to then pull a man up ,yes it would be easier to hang someone up. it would also of been easier for some one that did not want them hung up to get them down.
nails are hard to remove .climbing a ladder to then remove a nail ,when there is no smart place to place the ladder ,so that a person can use the right tool to even be able to get a purchase onto the nail to pull it. is harder then you may know. I do know BTDT
Faithfulservant
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So clever that they stole crucifixion as execution from the Persians. They couldn't find a better way to torture someone to death.
locust
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may of even improved on it . they were hideous .I cant even imagine being that mean to someone. not only did they almost beat a man to death but to then stretch them out and nail them to the wood ,stand it up to drop into the hole. left them to die a torchered death. if the man had not died in just a few hours they would break the legs . I had wondered how does that happen . but to think a block of wood to be put between a leg and the pole to then force the knee back to the pole snapping the bone . bad enough to think about it
And you should know they're clever enough to mount the stick in the ground so they don't have to keep pulling it out and putting it in again.
That's why, in the Roman Empire and indeed everywhere, there was a guard mounted to make sure no-one interfered with the execution.
As I understand it, once dead, the Romans allowed the bodies to be removed.
In England, for example, we hung people, and then when done mounted their heads, or indeed their whole bodies, in highly-visible places as a reminder to all.
I find way too much assumption here ... better to research history and the evidence than second-guess what might have happened from a contemporary perspective.
We can be really inventive when we want to be ... speaking as a Brit, hanging, drawing and quartering was quite a process ... the trick seems to be how much you can do before you actually kill the person you're doing it to.
In terms of how tall a pole –
Either: You only need the feet a few inches above the ground. The top of the pole doesn't need to be higher than the top of the head.
Or: You might want the victim to be visible at some distance ...
Either: You only need the feet a few inches above the ground. The top of the pole doesn't need to be higher than the top of the head.
Or: You might want the victim to be visible at some distance ...
locust
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my thinking is they only wanted the feet high enough off the ground to make it easier to break the leg by putting force against the knee to the pole.. the knee would then be about 4-5' up?? . I 'm not what would be called tall .to hang someone of my size the head would be 9-10' up then the hands would be higher up . how tall was a man like Jesus ,what did he weigh ? these are things we don't know ,all that can be done is guess .
not going to say no one was ever hung up on a cross and left to die ,but anyone trying to stand a cross up had to be thinking there has to be a easier way to do it.
Yes, leave it in place. Then again, no shortage of labour ... I doubt Roman citizens did the nailing and the heavy lifting.