Homosexuality

[lunamoth]

You know what Kal, perhaps you are one of those "lucky" people that found love with someone. And the love of that person is enough to sustain what you are going to miss for the rest of your life (God does that all the time).

But here is what you are going to miss:

Creating your own, changing diapers, warming feed bottles, waking momma every four hours or so, oh ohs, and defiance, anger and rebellion, hugs that will break your back and heart, from a son (or a daughter nowadays). Squeazing mom when the kid does so right, and it is part of her genes that lets him/her, you know it and it tickles you pink. Looking into your newborn child's eyes and seeing the wonders of the universe there, and knowing, to that child you are the wonders of the universe...

Hard price to pay...for simple pleasure with no potential end result, ever.

Can't use infertile males/females and marriage as an excuse. They mostly want babies...you opine that you do not.

But, I suspect you are thinking about things...

v/r

Q

Dear Q,

As an infertile heterosexual woman married happily for 20 years with two beautiful adopted girls, each adopted at about a year old, I'd like to thank you for reminding me of what I missed.

OK, so I guess I do do sarcasm.

That dog does not hunt.

All love is pleasing to God.

I'm sure I'll calm down enough to apologize soon.

lunamoth

 

[Kaldayen]

They mostly want babies...you opine that you do not.

Let me quote myself :

Knowing I won't be able to have children of my own is a real problem for me.

Perhaps you had missed that sentence. I'd wish I could do all of what you just said. If adoption is possible when my friend and I are ready, we'll consider it.

But, I suspect you are thinking about things...

Hm.. is that an insult undercover? You don't know me nor what I think. Don't go there would you?
___
Kal

 

[iBrian]

Okay, this thread is turning into too personal a discussion about infertility, which it shouldn't be.

Sexual relations can be a way of strengthening emotional bonds between adults - and as this thread clearly points out, there can be controversey where same gender relations comes into this.

Let's try and keep on that topic of gender, rather than raise salt in what are obviously personal concerns outside of the remit of the main discussion.

 

[lunamoth]

Thank you for the nudge, I, Brian. I apologize directly to Q for taking his statements personally and to the forum for contributing to the derailment of the thread.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[iBrian]

Hey, no worries lunamoth - it's not a case of you doing wrong - there's always the danger of emotional bait entering discussion topics like this, but I'll try to keep it out of the discussion.

 

[Quahom1]

Let me quote myself :


Perhaps you had missed that sentence. I'd wish I could do all of what you just said. If adoption is possible when my friend and I are ready, we'll consider it.


Hm.. is that an insult undercover? You don't know me nor what I think. Don't go there would you?
___
Kal

No insult intended Kal, and I have to apologize to you. I'm one of the 11 blind men, trying describe an elephant...I only have a piece of the picture.

sorry,

v/r

Q

 

[truthseeker]

Wow. Touchy subject, yes. When we are talking about love it can get awful touchy.

I am heterosexual. A friend who I love very much came to me with 'homosex' intentions and I knew from that point that I could never be homosexual. I am still friends with that person. I just made it clear that I am not interested. I believe in the Biblical laws but that had nothing to do with my decision at the time. I was just not interested.

We love who we love. If love came in obvious forms we'd all be able to keep love perfect. But we can't. It comes with sacrifice and grief and anxiety and desire and longsuffering and still the reward for sludging through the mud is love.

I can't stand against love of opposite sex or same sex because the truth is that I can't stand against love. What I don't respect about some homo or heterosexual relationships is when people can't relate to who they are. We have no business being in a love relationship with another person when we can't identify with ourselves.

And the kids. Gee whiz! Keep the kids out of the Gay and Lesbian Pride Parades! These are adult issues! Children have no business being involved in an adult issue of this magnitude.

 

[jimmy_chai]

Oh my, this is a dimension my lecturer recommended us to tour, and at the end of this discussion, the issue has not been sorted out!


Adolf Hitler was a figure interests me lots. What if environment was well nurtured, love and compassion were shared from parents, would he make a decision to murder so many Jews? Just for the hatred and prejudice
experienced, resulting in murdering thousands and thousands of jews..and many more? japan joined and more perdicament, that was just a piece of history.



Well! The brother started the discussion, blended with issue of murder and norm, what about this, Hitler? A great idea leader any terrorist looks for this age? Will you hate him today if he is making you painful and dying slowly? Don't talk about norm, it's a psychological term in sociology, just focus on the torture happens on you. Am I looking for your idea and opinion and justification of the huge issue? I just want to get my way out of it...

Homosexuality is a term nature has not occurred and it seems to revive and revolve in the network of the entity of humanity first! Let be a bit preachy, God..never created animals to interbreed among the same sex, and it never will, but for humanity, in the likeness of God, given the prerogative to access your freewill, and we have ended like this? let's have a tea first...

It's not a issue of majority, or a minority report, or others' opinion, come on! I am a guy, and do I bother others say I am a girl? Fact can't be changed. My concern now I am attracted to her at the class, and I wish i can send a msg to her, telling her how much she means to me, or the steve in the class might be my sexual partner tonight at the dormitory? It's going against, and the brother started the discussion also mentioned, going against..let's me channel to this one: pervesion.

Homosexuality is sexual pervesion and moral disorientation, that it's dictated much by the individual today in the post modern society of extensive freedom, exercising excitement and nothing else! Choosing not Melissa in the class, I date Steve and having sexual relationship with him time after time, and excuse me, I hardly understand how it would work..homo-sex..yes, no chance for pregnancy, so? Disoriented, for we have sought our ways instead of HIs, soon after we got out from the garden..no control mechanism, no, each of us exercises our own freewill, just freewill, you like it, you want it, let's go for it#_#

I noticed there was/were somebody showed the bible texts. That was moral standard to Moses, from him to spread to every human being in the image of God. In a very simple language, going below the standard is debasement, and we are not matching the reflection of the walk righteousness, in homosexuality. We can talk about if and but, the majority and minority's idea and acceptance, etc, the fact I am a guy, the fact I can't have a irrational relationship with steve at all. He can be my friend and indeed he is my brother, not my sister. THe thing I see homosexuality, is upside down from brother to sister..does it change anything? It's just our pleasure and pervesion, isn't it?

Let's come back to the nature of homosexual beings. First, it can be oriented by environment. Then we come to genetic arrangement, somewhere the person and people can't just fit the norm, opposite attraction, not matter how pretty>_< Biologically there are case studies, and I have no means to nullify that reality. It's real, and the appearance is not normal. It's like the iMac joins PC, pumping water into a machine instead of oil, it's just can't fit! Hey, let face it! What a network of humanity for? what a family for? We got to understand there is shelter for our refuge and we don't have to amateurly fix up a hunt and it leaks when it rains! If the people reject everything and everyone...i can't stop thinking when the whole world walked out of Jesus's, and he still stands by me, even there is one unworthy man like me He still dies for me...through God and in God, all things can be reflected HIs holiness and awe of being part of His creation.

And, Seventh-Day Adventist Church never a cult or sect, careless what is in you. I want to say, we care about anyone, not in the basis who we see as the members of the church. Homosexuality, is something we recognize as a perversion, but the participants, we accept, and we want to lend a helping hand! I am hungary for tea now^_+ so many tutorials...

Jimmy Chai

 

[revmark]

I don’t think the homosexuality is wrong. I also don’t think that it is right for someone to say that their religion or point of view is right or better than someone else’s. I think that sexual freedom and religious freedom should be allowed world wide.

 

[jimmy_chai]

Re:What basis?

Well, bro
THere is a whole lot of space to move around, by expanding ourselves, without the psychological components, e.g. id, moral, by ignoring them, we shut, whatever true or false value reinforced/posted on us. Get what I mean?

There is one group of people, 2+2+=6 they insist. Another, 2+2=4, they doubt! It is interesting to see the difference. Thick and thin, believe it or not, it happens just so easy, by seeing the world as what we are, not what it is.

I have to say there is/are evidence to say crossing the busy traffic is dangerous, before I can impress anyone in the world, it's dangerous, not what I think..not what I think! There are a sexual dimension such as homosexuality, one fact it arouses such a big reflection, and response, why?

I may say some deny it because they don't know. And also some accept because the agree. But does any of them really understand the direction in this matter, and educate the society, to lead the young generation, to direct the uneducated, what is right and wrong:moral. It's not something new, perhaps! The fact is too often people have tried not to fit themselves in the "norm", that they find themselves outside the belief system of the authority, and they mke their authority, which is their judgment and do accordingly. Is that true?

I need to say something here, it is not a passion to talk out of busy agenda here. 6 yrs ago, I had no direction. I sought the direction and that was my meaning! In science, in others' opinions, in philosophy, in anything! But I had taken the matter of spirituality seriously, and you don't doubt each and everyone of you have a belief system no matter what you profess now. It's because spirituality is a relam beyond our touch and understanding, and we will find our stand and the position in which whether we like it or not, both exist. I can insist what I think to be okay, the other preposition, tells the obsolute principle, lasting principle, no matter what we do, we ****, we mess, we, spit, it's there, right and real.

So, alike with many others dimension and issues, homosexuality is not something many of you here taking lightly or you won't be here, I bet! But it's a matter many of us try to justify our motive and pleasure and pursuit. Which in many areas, telling loud and clear, not just the conservative folks, but the principle, it's not okay, to have sex with steven, may be anal sex, cunnilingus etc for every night, while opposite sex, which was made perfectly matched, is ignored! It's sick, it's disoriented! But it's how many like you are proclaiming, and doing right now in this post-modern world, a moral debasing world...But I do want to backup here, though those agree to have sex with the opposite sex, there are doing also wrong like raping, sexual harrassment, etc. It's said, in all areas, there are ethical codes to be abound..

..and enjoy the abundant life which is the choice in your hand^_^

Thank you...i got to return some books to the library..

Jimmy

 

[truthseeker]

Re: What basis?

Well, bro
THere is a whole lot of space to move around, by expanding ourselves, without the psychological components, e.g. id, moral, by ignoring them, we shut, whatever true or false value reinforced/posted on us. Get what I mean?
...I may say some deny it because they don't know. And also some accept because the agree. But does any of them really understand the direction in this matter, and educate the society, to lead the young generation, to direct the uneducated, what is right and wrong:moral. It's not something new, perhaps! The fact is too often people have tried not to fit themselves in the "norm", that they find themselves outside the belief system of the authority, and they mke their authority, which is their judgment and do accordingly. Is that true?

...So, alike with many others dimension and issues, homosexuality is not something many of you here taking lightly or you won't be here, I bet! But it's a matter many of us try to justify our motive and pleasure and pursuit. Which in many areas, telling loud and clear, not just the conservative folks, but the principle, it's not okay, to have sex with steven, may be anal sex, cunnilingus etc for every night, while opposite sex, which was made perfectly matched, is ignored! It's sick, it's disoriented! But it's how many like you are proclaiming, and doing right now in this post-modern world, a moral debasing world...But I do want to backup here, though those agree to have sex with the opposite sex, there are doing also wrong like raping, sexual harrassment, etc. It's said, in all areas, there are ethical codes to be abound..

..and enjoy the abundant life which is the choice in your hand^_^

Not to disrespectfully chop up your thesis, dear jimmy chai. There's good word here.

 

[Kaldayen]

But I do want to backup here, though those agree to have sex with the opposite sex, there are doing also wrong like raping, sexual harrassment, etc. It's said, in all areas, there are ethical codes to be abound..

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that.. could you clarify please?

"Sick, disoriented, unethical, sexual pervesion and moral disorientation..." I guess we understand your judgment allright.
What are your arguments again? I believe you said man and woman are made perfectly matched... and that it was unnatural. I think we covered those issues earlier : Many examples of sexual relations in the animal kingdom which aren't performed for reproduction. Many examples of homosexual relations in the animal kingdom. Examples of human societies where it was accepted (ancient Greece comes to mind).
You seem to be more annoyed by the fact that we don't fit in "normal" society than with homosexuality itself.
___
Kal

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Revmark,

thank you for the post and welcome to CR

I don’t think the homosexuality is wrong. I also don’t think that it is right for someone to say that their religion or point of view is right or better than someone else’s. I think that sexual freedom and religious freedom should be allowed world wide.

i agree with you 100%.

 

[Quahom1]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that.. could you clarify please?

"Sick, disoriented, unethical, sexual pervesion and moral disorientation..." I guess we understand your judgment allright.
What are your arguments again? I believe you said man and woman are made perfectly matched... and that it was unnatural. I think we covered those issues earlier : Many examples of sexual relations in the animal kingdom which aren't performed for reproduction. Many examples of homosexual relations in the animal kingdom. Examples of human societies where it was accepted (ancient Greece comes to mind).
You seem to be more annoyed by the fact that we don't fit in "normal" society than with homosexuality itself.
___
Kal

Kal, Je regrette que vous deviez souffrir par ceci, encore.

Jimmy, no one is perfect, not you not me, not Kal, not the Pope. Normalacy is a subjective term (I've learned the hard way). Tolerance is not, however. You would not want to be blasted because you looked different, or ate foods others don't eat, or had family rituals that society considered wrong. You can't impose your theistic beliefs on everyone. Because everyone does not believe like you or me (or Kal, or eh, you get the picture).

Attempting to nail someone to the wall, never worked in the past, what makes you think it is going to work now. All it does is create anger (unless that is your intention...).

What you wish to say is fine. How you are saying it is not so fine. If you take license to be rude, then you give license to be treated rudely. That is not wise...

Please consider.

v/r

Q

 

[Sacredstar]

There is some wonderful articles on this website written by a gay Christian priest.

enJOY

http://www.truluck.com/html/the_bible_and_homosexuality.html

Love beyond measure

GOD loves every hair on every head of every soul without judgement.

Now that is justice......

Kim xx

 

[truthseeker]

I read the website that SacredStar posted.

Interesting.

What I find interesting is how the priest displays how we like to use the Bible to back up our one-sided views. It brought me back to how Jesus wanted to embrace ALL peoples. He mentioned (somewhere in the scriptures that I cannot pin point at this time) 'he without sin cast the first stone'. It is a daily battle for us to submit to humility. This forum is a constant reminder that I am not the only one with a conscious and heart and soul. May the spirit of selflessness continue to move among us all.

 

[Quahom1]

I read the website that SacredStar posted.

Interesting.

What I find interesting is how the priest displays how we like to use the Bible to back up our one-sided views. It brought me back to how Jesus wanted to embrace ALL peoples. He mentioned (somewhere in the scriptures that I cannot pin point at this time) 'he without sin cast the first stone'. It is a daily battle for us to submit to humility. This forum is a constant reminder that I am not the only one with a conscious and heart and soul. May the spirit of selflessness continue to move among us all.

The woman was considered an adulteres...and some point out that the Centurian might have been gay. One, Jesus stopped from being stoned, and the other Jesus wondered at the power of his faith...

The Bible is, Truthseeker, as you imply. We are the one sided ones. I guess that is a great big "OUCH" for us to remember.

v/r

Q

 

[Kaldayen]

Quahom, thank you

But really, I don't suffer from it. After some time, we get used to it, like anything.

Those who suffer are the younger gays out there, who are already confused by their newly-discovered sexual orientation, who would badly need support and understanding, but who rather receive hate, disgust and rejection.

I really believe no loving God would want that... and even less in His name.
___
Kal

 

[jimmy_chai]

Thank you after few day of absence, the posts were read.

Propanganda is term to describe the reinforcement of idea, value system upon others. It's kind of one-sided communication. It worked. Adolf Hitler was one of them. However, never in any sense I agree to do so, by writing few bit of language to nail anyone at the cross or the empty wall. But it's outlaying a very vast area of ethical-value community, to share with each one. At least we know here we do have plenty to agree on ethrocentrism, which stressed on "my" own belief system, that gay-gay is fun thing, justified by its own group. There is people, like me, do listen and read whatever voices here, and giving feedback.

On top of it, as I mentioned, my intention was not forcing somebody to switch off/on the habital opposing attitude overnight. I don't believe I have the magic for that, really. Meaning, I pass by this group, in which holding the prerogative of right to access any realm of choice, I do care what people think and do, to themselves and to others. No way in my position to touch the agony of the sensitivity of what is inappropiate for an imperfect human like me to pinpoint others, pushing down others below my hip. No-no. On the other word, I have to say, I don't smoke to do harm to myself, neither do I want to ask any of you to smoke. Your freewill to lift up the respect and dignity of the humanity. There is still valuable for anyone at all, though it happens to be in the post-modern world right now. I apologize if any of you were anguish about what is said.

This, I say, what many active homosexual beings are thinking, talking and doing, could also annoying to the portion of popularity that is firm with the ethical value and do protect and do practice. You get what I mean? I may say something lightly, annoyed one of you, which I have no means to hurt. It's plainly talking, communication, sharing information and attitude. However, how often many of the homosexual active gay/lesbian's act, which has been projected as perverted sexual orientation and debasing immoral practice of lifeways, annoy others who carry the same image of humanity? Has the brother, which I think is a man, said I hurt/being rude by stopping by here with few comments and thoughts and value many of us carry, e.g. disagree with same-sex relationship alone while upholding the value we believe in the firm foundation shared within the humanity network, to be true and honest? Yet we don't stop any of you and we, as a representative from another planet to you, to share our thought, that the interaction one to one in term of belief system, homosexuality here particularly, is apparent.

We have scientific systematic biological studies on the act, we have the doctrinal writing such as the scripture to illustrate our origin and the destination and to evaluate the process in present term, we have accessed the invisible philosophical realm and relate to the visible touchable world and to all in all, we care. We don't come to judge, but to remind, Hey, there is still another world outside homosexuality, which is completely different from the belief system and lifeways, what do they say about us? Are they annoyed? Are they friendly(like me)? Bear in mind we are living in the same village of the global planet. The same house, the parents are having sex, down stair the children are having orgy homosexually. This is a picture all of us are imposed, no matter we like it or not. Instead of accusing, I am lending a hand to type the opposite values against yours, but certainly not against you personally.

Have a nie weekend, it's getting close to autumn and temperature is going down. Lovely^_+

Jimmy

 

[Quahom1]

Hello Jimmy,

I would suffice to say that all human beings think, hurt, laugh, cry, feel, wish, hope, dream, and hope...is that what you wanted us to know? Got the message, and welcome to CR.

We also mess up. It is what makes us, us. But we shine in other areas...

v/r

Q