No false prophet will be established in Israel

Yes, but that does not make it a 'this-or-that' statement, it can be both, it can mean many things, it's not exclusive – what is exclusive is Jesus references all this to Himself, not to another. He is the Principle of life itself ...
There are passages where Jesus offers this is not from Himself, that you would be aware of Thomas, so it is obvious we have to find a logical balance, all the while knowing that the flesh amounts to nothing.

Ezekial 13 would indicate that God has given a future for true Prophets and Israel.

Regards Tony
 
The concept of messianic figures in Jewish history is fascinating, especially when considering Jesus (Yeshua). Scholar Bart Ehrman eloquently points out that for most Jews, the idea of Jesus as the Messiah was laughable...
I think the advice of Gamaliel is relevant here:

"a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while And he said to them: Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do, as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theodas, affirming himself to be somebody, to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all that believed him were scattered, and brought to nothing. After this man, rose up Judas of Galilee, in the days of the enrolling, and drew away the people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as consented to him, were dispersed. And now, therefore, I say to you, refrain from these men, and let them alone; for if this council or this work be of men, it will come to nought; But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it, lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God. And they consented to him." (Acts 5:34-39)

As 'the Way', as the early followers of Jesus referred to themselves, did not come to nought' (v38) but it was not overthrown (v39) then ...

... and in light of the internal evidence, the suggestion that Jesus' mission did not fail, but in fact perhaps surpasses the mundane idea of what constitutes a success.
 
I would just suggest, that does not the recorded passage speak for its own self?

It can be most likely be judged upon, are there any other prophets that we can see, who have been established in Israel and who have been written into the records of Israel?
It works for you if you prefer Baha'i interpretations of the New Testament @Tony Bristow-Stagg but it doesn't mean the writings of Baha'u'llah and his family should become the inerrant word of the Almighty for everyone else in the world for the next 1000 years, or that Christians should be instructed by the Quran, imo

However -- Baha'i forum
 
Last edited:
... so it is obvious we have to find a logical balance, all the while knowing that the flesh amounts to nothing.
I find that statement unbalanced and Biblically illogical.

If the flesh counts for nothing, why does God bother with humanity?

Why, indeed, did He bother creating the world?

(As a Christian, I'm coming round to the view of Creation and Incarnation as a holistic concept that seems embedded as a startling truth of Christian Revelation.)
 
I wish someone could show me these signs.
God has always sent the signs of the necessary change in construction of the new Message and destruction of the old world order men had devised.

Our age is no difference, but that we are now building a global society based on the oneness of humanity, the old world order based on Nationalism is been torn apart and replaced with the need for global cooperation, it is unfolding as it has already been recorded it will.

People will not see what they do not want to see.

Interestingly I watched a wonderful NDE the other night, the lady who experienced this came back with the knowledge that we shape our own reality by our own mindset. I have long considered that Science Fiction is not actually fiction, but our ability to tap into all that is possible, both for the good and for the bad.

For many years I have also considered that many simple talks by Abdul'baha about replacing bad thoughts with good thoughts, or thoughts of war with thoughts of peace, have a far deeper reality that we are yet to consider. I see a lot of the worlds misdirection is caused by what is fed to our minds through violent entertainment and games, likewise with morality and honesty etc. You feed a mind rubbish, it returns rubbish.

Regards Tony
 
It works for you if you prefer Baha'i interpretations of the New Testament @Tony Bristow-Stagg but it doesn't mean the writings of Baha'u'llah and his family should become the inerrant word of the Almighty for everyone else in the world for the next 1000 years, or that Christians should be instructed by the Quran, imo

However -- Baha'i forum
I would only offer RJM that of it is the inerrant Word of God, then it is already part of the minds on humanity and unfolds inlt to the extent humanity as a whole embraces each of the Councels that are already written.

In the end we can serve each other and be the best neighbour ever.

All the best and Regards Tony
 
At the moment, I do not know what future has God given to Israel? Eternal conflict?
Conflict is a direct result of not choosing the Councels of peace given by God.

The future of both Israel and Iran will be most glorious. There will be a constant stream of millions of pilgrims flowing through these countries, both Iran and Israel are already blessed, as they will serve and cater to all these people from all Nations. Other Nations will share this, America, England, France Africa.

Regards Tony
 
I find that statement unbalanced and Biblically illogical.

If the flesh counts for nothing, why does God bother with humanity?

Why, indeed, did He bother creating the world?

(As a Christian, I'm coming round to the view of Creation and Incarnation as a holistic concept that seems embedded as a startling truth of Christian Revelation.)
Thomas the Spirit is life and light. The body is the temple during a short span of life, it serves its purpose and should be treated accordingly with cleanliness and morality.

The body without the Spirit is already dead.

The Body of a Messenger is as pure as flesh can be, but that flesh will also die, that is the natural.law of nature, the flesh body of Jesus will never return, the atoms have dispersed. This is the entire intent of Jesus saying the flesh amounts to nothing and that the Spirit is Life and Light. Jesus was Christ, Annointed of the Holy Spirit, it is the Spirit that returns and is Annointed by God to God's chosen Messengers.

If we look at Jesus in the Image of the Holy Spirit, and not in the image of the flesh, this is when we find the everlasting Christ.

Regards Tony
 
Maybe not God, but definitely Netanyahu ...
Conflict today is not the creation of BenYamin. Your God created it when he gave Israel exclusively to Jews and asked them to kill Amalekites and Canaanites. In one case, he asked to save only the women and children who have not laid with men and use them, an example which another of the Bahai manifestations, Muhammad, followed.
The future of both Israel and Iran will be most glorious. .. both Iran and Israel are already blessed, ..
I would not want India to be blessed in the way Allah has blessed Israel and Iran.
 
Last edited:
Conflict today is not the creation of BenYamin. Your God created it when he gave Israel exclusively to Jews and asked them to kill Amalekites and Canaanites. In one case, he asked to save only the women and children who have not laid with men and use them, an example which another of the Bahai manifestations, Muhammad, followed.

I would not want India to be blessed in the way Allah has blessed Israel and Iran.
Too late, it already has been.

Regards Tony
 
Do you have a reason to interpret the Valley of the Bones prophecy in Ezekiel 37 as physical resurrection?

There's a thread about it here:
God literally states that He will put them back together. Ezekiel 37:7-8 literally states that God will put their bones together and put their skin back on them. So yes, it makes perfect sense that it would be a physical resurrection.

Do you have any reason to interpret this as a spiritual resurrection?
 
God literally states that He will put them back together. Ezekiel 37:7-8 literally states that God will put their bones together and put their skin back on them. So yes, it makes perfect sense that it would be a physical resurrection.

Do you have any reason to interpret this as a spiritual resurrection?
I think they are both probably right in some sense..

A "physical resurrection", yes .. but not entirely the same as the one now.
i.e. not the same physical universe.
 
God literally states that He will put them back together. Ezekiel 37:7-8 literally states that God will put their bones together and put their skin back on them. So yes, it makes perfect sense that it would be a physical resurrection.

Do you have any reason to interpret this as a spiritual resurrection?
I think they are both probably right in some sense..

A "physical resurrection", yes .. but not entirely the same as the one now.
i.e. not the same physical universe.
Apparently the valley of bones image is omitted from the Qumran version of Ezekiel 37, in relation to the restoration of Israel?
 
I think they are both probably right in some sense..

A "physical resurrection", yes .. but not entirely the same as the one now.
i.e. not the same physical universe.
Revelations 20
4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

The first resurrection is a spiritual one. Those mentioned in Ezekiel 37 are part of the second resurrection, a physical one. That is why the second death has power over them. They can still die again.
 
Do you have any reason to interpret this as a spiritual resurrection?
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Ezekiel 37:11

Does it make sense that the living Israelites would remark about the death that comes to all? God speaks of the restoration of Israel to their own land. The resurrection of the dry bones is an image of the restoration of Israel. Physical resurrection is not the take-away point, imo.
 
Last edited:
Apparently the valley of bones image is omitted from the Qumran version of Ezekiel 37, in relation to the restoration of Israel?
I'm wrong here. The 'valley' is omitted, but the general sense of the passage is retained:


Yahweh in the middle of ... by them: and behold, they were dry … to me … these …

I answered …

Prophesy ... them: Thus ... the Lord Yahweh ... to bones ... breath to enter into you … sinews … breath in you … Yahweh

I prophesied as I was commanded … there was an earthquake. The bones came together, bone to … and, behold, there were sinews on them … and flesh ... above; but there was no breath in them …

Then he said ... prophesy, son of man, and tellthe Lord Yahweh … from the four winds, breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live …

So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath into them … on their feet, an exceedingly great army …

... man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold they say … are dried up … our hopeWe

Therefore prophesy and tell … the Lord Yahweh … open and cause you to come up ... my people; and I will bring you

You will know that ... your graves … and caused to come up

I will put my Spirit in you … in your own land ... I …

Ezekiel 37 Qumran fragments
 
Last edited:
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Ezekiel 37:11

Does it make sense that the living Israelites would remark about the death that comes to all? God speaks of the restoration of Israel to their own land. The resurrection of the dry bones is an image of the restoration of Israel. Physical resurrection is not the take-away point, imo.
Ezekiel isn't the only one who mentions this physical resurrection. Those who weren't part of the first resurrection are those who aren't considered God's first fruits. They are those who didn't get their chance for salvation. They are living in the resurrection of judgement (Matthew 12:41-42). The Queen of Sheba and the people of Nineveh are mentioned here. Were they saints? Probably not. But this is why they are mentioned here. They will get their physical resurrection and be judged after this last lifetime (presumed to be at least 100 years as mentioned below). This chapter, along with Ezekiel definitely seem quite physical in their description. In this chapter people are still sinning but God is working with them. It is obviously a prophecy because it hasn't happened yet. And if this is all spiritual, then how are these people dying?

Isaiah 65
8 This is what the Lord says:
“As when juice is still found in a cluster of grapes
and people say, ‘Don’t destroy it,
there is still a blessing in it,’
so will I do in behalf of my servants;
I will not destroy them all.
9 I will bring forth descendants from Jacob,
and from Judah those who will possess my mountains;
my chosen people will inherit them,
and there will my servants live.
10 Sharon will become a pasture for flocks,
and the Valley of Achor a resting place for herds,
for my people who seek me.
11 “But as for you who forsake the Lord
and forget my holy mountain,
who spread a table for Fortune
and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny,
12 I will destine you for the sword,
and all of you will fall in the slaughter;
for I called but you did not answer,
I spoke but you did not listen.
You did evil in my sight
and chose what displeases me.”
13 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“My servants will eat,
but you will go hungry;
my servants will drink,
but you will go thirsty;
my servants will rejoice,
but you will be put to shame.
14 My servants will sing
out of the joy of their hearts,
but you will cry out
from anguish of heart
and wail in brokenness of spirit.
15 You will leave your name
for my chosen ones to use in their curses;
the Sovereign Lord will put you to death,
but to his servants he will give another name.
16 Whoever invokes a blessing in the land
will do so by the one true God;
whoever takes an oath in the land
will swear by the one true God.
For the past troubles will be forgotten
and hidden from my eyes.

New Heavens and a New Earth​

17 “See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.
21 They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
23 They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.
24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord.
 
Back
Top