How did you choose?

[Geist]

Everyone has needs, including a "religion" of some type. Your own "curiosity" tells us you have need for something. Whether it is to know, or to find out...there is need there.

Hell, I have needs. CR fullfils alot of that particular area of need.

Ask your questions.

I dare not ask what your needs are.

I am what do think this thread was for?

My main question is how can you believe in a God that doesn't answer you?

 

[Quahom1]

I dare not ask what your needs are.

I am what do think this thread was for?

My main question is how can you believe in a God that doesn't answer you?

Wise...my needs are few, but intense.

Who says God doesn't answer us/me? How about, I/we don't listen, or I/we are too busy/angry to hear? And of course we know better than God, so if He did...I/we would disregard it anyway, then state that I/we don't ever hear God (let alone get answers).

God talks, be still once in awhile and listen... (my advice... you can take or shove).

I am answered by God frequently, Geist. It just took me awhile to figure out the "language" God used (which is just about anything or anyone, most often at the most inopportune times).

But it is there. (and we always see it later in reflection) Hind sight is 20/20

v/r

Q

 

[path_of_one]

My main question is how can you believe in a God that doesn't answer you?

Now I understand what you're asking! In asking how I chose my religion/spirituality, I was coming from an experience that was based precisely on my feeling that my God was answering me. So my choice is inherently that I choose based on the answers (or non-answers) I receive. If I try meditating on a bit of sacred text or try out a ritual or church/temple/whatever experience, I try to listen to that inner voice that tells me whether or not this is right for my path. That, for me, is part of my experience of my God (there's more to it than that in my spirituality, but that suffices for this question).

If you are seeking with an open mind and heart and God is not answering, for me that would be an answer. The way you are seeking, or the path you are trying out, may not resonate with you. You might try another path until you find something that fulfills that longing you feel. Personally, I cannot answer how I would believe in something that wasn't making me feel closer to God. I just wouldn't believe it. I'd keep searching until I found what brought me closer to God and gave me a satisfying spiritual life. Some people have to try out a lot of different spiritual paths before they find what brings them closer to God, and some (like myself) choose to weave together many texts, traditions, and experiences.

 

[dauer]

My main question is how can you believe in a God that doesn't answer you?

It is one thing to expect religion to help you grow closer to God, however S/He/It is defined, to gain a greater sense of spirituality. It is another thing to expect God to become your servant and fetch you your paper every morning, your waiting coffee nice and hot in the kitchen. What is it that you expect from God and why?

Is there a way that you, as a person wary about investing in religion right now, already have ideas about the nature of God, how He functions, and the relationship between God and man, what the "deal" should be?

What qualifies as an answer from God to you and what doesn't?

Dauer

 

[Quahom1]

It is one thing to expect religion to help you grow closer to God, however S/He/It is defined, to gain a greater sense of spirituality. It is another thing to expect God to become your servant and fetch you your paper every morning, your waiting coffee nice and hot in the kitchen. What is it that you expect from God and why?

Is there a way that you, as a person wary about investing in religion right now, already have ideas about the nature of God, how He functions, and the relationship between God and man, what the "deal" should be?

What qualifies as an answer from God to you and what doesn't?

Dauer

Whoa Dauer, is that a question for all? If not, it should be. You're right, God is not our servant...not that way.

v/r

Q

 

[Geist]

I never assumed God to be a servent more of a friend someone to talk to when things get nasty someone who can help you find peace in mind, Body and spirit.

However I have tried many ways of comunicating with God I never got anything back from it. No answers, no comfort from my own pain just a heavy feeling that I am alone and always will be.

 

[Paladin]

Geist,

You seem so very bright, so very connected. I admire that in a person, but could I presume to tell a story?
I studied many kinds of spiritual philosophies when I was younger, but never really had any kind of connection with the Divine. I still felt alone in my own head. Even when I married and had kids I always lived alone inside myself, in a manner of speaking.
I lost my son to a wasting disease, Muscular Dystrophy, when he was sixteen years old. I loved that boy, and cared for him night and day as he grew weaker and weaker.Finally, one night, after I finished his night care, I said goodnight and kissed his forehead. That was to be the last kiss I ever gave him.
The Doctor said it was heart failure. Somewhere in the wee hours of the morning, probably between 4 or 5 o'clock, Christopher passed from this world.
In the months that followed his death, I grew more and more morose, separating myself from a world that meant only pain and more pain. Drugs and Alchohol weren't enough to numb my grief and guilt. Yes, Guilt, because I indulged in magical thinking in my grief. If I had only been more kind, If I had loved him more, If I had been more patient with him, and on and on...
One night about a year after his death, I couldn't stand it any more, I didn't want to live in a world that was so barren of understanding, so cold, so very cold. I walked out into the meadow near where I lived, I was sure no one was around

I looked up into the sky seeing the clouds over the mountains, and just started to sob, great heaving sobs that came from my abysmal depths of despair. I cried to God to show me what was real, to show me that He existed, that love was real, and if he couldn't do that, then I wanted off this planet any way I could. I wanted to die.
I raged at the heavens, I shouted, and screamed, falling exhausted into a heap in the dust, grabbing handfuls of dirt and flinging them in all directions, completely mad with rage, fear, anger, and a terrible lonliness that I thought only death could release me from.
And then, it was quiet.
Even the wind seemed to make no sound.
And from afar off it seemd to come, and then from inside me as well, was , as best I can describe it, a voice.
Not so much in words, but in a soft feeling that spoke volumes in a single thought it came.
It said: "I am here"
Immediatly my body filled with a warmth I had never before felt, and I felt that the entire vastness of the creator had come so close to envelop me, and let me know I was loved, that I counted, that everything was allright.
I knew in that moment that there was a reality in the universe bigger than pain, bigger than guilt, and ultimately more powerful than I.
Ten years have passed since that day, and I have traveled some rough roads, but never, ever do I feel alone.
All I am saying Geist, is that there is something in the universe that loves you with a love that never judges, never condemns, and you can be in touch with it.
The only thing separating you from It, is yourself.
It took me many years to realize this, But you are smart, and carry your own brand of wisdom. I know you will find your own truth, I have no doubt. Just be patient with yourself, and others too. They mean well even if you cannot use their advice.
but most of all be happy

Peace

 

[didymus]

I heard someone remark that, "God is an imaginary friend for adults."

I thought it was funny but I don't think It is imaginary at all.

 

[Quahom1]

I never assumed God to be a servent more of a friend someone to talk to when things get nasty someone who can help you find peace in mind, Body and spirit.

However I have tried many ways of comunicating with God I never got anything back from it. No answers, no comfort from my own pain just a heavy feeling that I am alone and always will be.

I think Paladin just presented the simple but absolutely profound message God has for all of us (at no small expense...thankyou for sharing that Paladin).

When I was younger, my father once commented to me (out of the blue), that it is difficult to hear God with clenched fists covering one's ears. What he meant was that anger often gets in the way of us hearing God. Even today I have to remind myself from time to time, to let it go (strong emotions) and be still for a moment.

I will give a story of my own (only it wasn't anger that impeded me from hearing God...it was fear).

I was stationed on a cutter out of Port Angelse, Washington. It was 3 January 1981, and I had duty that night. At 0200 the Rescue and assistance alarm sounded, a fishing boat opened its hull on a shoal, and was going down with two people on board. My best friend Terrence and I got on board and began rigging the dewatering pumps while a seaman searched for the crew. He came back stating he could not find anyone. Terrence and I went down below decks into crew berthing and ended up chest deep in 35 degree water (about 2 degrees C). While he grabbed a matress to try to plug the hole in the hull, I searched the spaces for people. Coming back finding none (the water was now up to our shoulders, I asked Terrence if he blocked the hole. He looked at me and said "Hole, Hell...there ain't no Hull left! The mattress just floated away!!!"

That was it, I said we were out of there, so I shot through the hatchway onto the main deck with Terrence right behind. Only when I turned around, Terrence wasn't there. Looking around a cold dread came over me, as Terrence was no where and water was awash over the deck. I peered into the hatchway, and there he was (the sea was at his chin), but he was deathly calm, looking steadily into my eyes. He said very quietly, "My vest (life vest), is snagged on a nail, and I can't get off it, and I can't feel my hands...I don't care what you do, just get me out of here..."

I pulled and pawed at the vest, but nothing. I didn't know what to do, and being so frightened I stopped thinking period.

Then the world went silent, and time seemed to slow down. At that moment a very calm presence was near me around me. I was in it.

I heard, sensed this deep quiet voice that was not a voice ask or impart a question, "Do you need help?" I remember saying out loud, "What?" And the voice repeated the question. In my mind I said that I desperately needed help, I couldn't do this alone (it was the first time I ever admitted I couldn't do it alone). The voice or presence pulled back, and the next thing I knew the seaman was at my side asking me to go back to the small boat since the ship was about to sink (he did not know Terrence was stuck down below). I grabbed his arm and said, "I need you to help me get Terrence out of there, he's stuck on a nail." The seaman grinned, used his 250 lbs of muscle, reached into the hatch and literally ripped Terrence out of his vest, then shouldered him and carried him while half dragging my frozen butt back to the small boat. As we got into the small boat and pulled away, the fishing boat rolled and went down. We lost our pumps and gear, but no life lost (the two fishermen had gotten into their life raft before we arrived).

When we got back to the cutter (and warmed up with lots of coffee and wool blankets), I asked for the seaman so we could thank him. No one knew what I was talking about. They said Terrence and I were the only two people to go on board. Even Terrence said there was no one but me and him. He didn't remember much after getting stuck on the nail, and didn't remember anything about getting into the small boat, but assumed I'd gotten him safely back.

But as you see, I had a little "help", when I least expected it.

You aren't alone Geist. No one is (we just think so sometimes). And we're here...

v/r

Q

 

[Faithfulservant]

I love stories like that. Thanks Q

 

[path_of_one]

Thank you for your stories, Paladin and Quahom1. They are inspiring and beautiful.

Sometimes pain and grief, loneliness and heartache have seemed overwhelming. But I find as you did, Paladin, that after I have sobbed and screamed and fallen to my knees there comes a silence in my mind and heart, a stillness, and out of this still place I hear God's voice and feel the embrace of the Divine.

I have had a few dramatic mystical experiences and they were beautiful, but what is consistent is this still place in my soul, and the comfort I find when I come to that place. This is my source of strength to meet each day, and my encouragement to meet challenges I find in life.

My own experience has been that when I am wrapped up with this world, with my worries, with my things... when I am attached to the transient... the Divine seems distant. I have realized God is not silent at these times. God has not left me. But I am so busy and my mind is so noisy that I can no longer hear the Divine voice. It is like trying to hear a gentle whisper during a rock concert. There might still be whispering, but I would never know it. When I am consistent in my solitude, in decluttering my mind and opening my heart, when I let go of the everyday and meditate on the eternal... suddenly I hear the whispering, and I realize the presence of God.

I am not saying that this is a path that would work for you, Geist, but only sharing what my experience has been. Perhaps, if you have tried pathways with the expectation of feeling God's presence, and have been disappointed, you might try starting a path that focuses first on yourself and not directly on God. Just an idea- something like zazen meditation for example, that focuses more on practice and self, but helps quiet the mind. It is partly, for me, knowing what practices and environments are most suitable to me clearing my mind and connecting with God. My goal is to have this stillness all the time, but of course life gets in the way. Personally, I find going out and sitting in nature to help the most- in a forest, next to a river, generally somewhere alone. Everyone is different, but the key for me is finding how to get to this place of internal stillness through which God's voice seems to speak.

 

[Geist]

Thank you for sharing your stories I guess its my turn to tell you something.


Not so long ago my great grandfather passed away. He basicly couldn't breath and died from lack of oxygen and a heart attack. He was probably the one person that I could talk to about anything and I loved him.

After his death naturally I was upset and like Paladin I went into a reprieve of hatered of myself. I raged to myself for hours and hours and eventually when I couldn't cry or scream any more there was nothing just silence I felt nothing but pain I felt the world on my shoulders and I still do. Nothing holds any joy to me any more, not even intamacy with my lover holds anything to me. The only thing I can do to feel any peace is to cut myself. Small cuts on ,y upper arm with a pencil sharpener the sting of my flesh opening and a small trail of blood is the only thing that I like to feel any more its the only thing that makes me feel anything anymore.

I think thats why I started to call myself Geist; it means ghost in Deutsche because thats all I am now.

 

[lunamoth]

(((((((Geist)))))))

Sounds like you are in the dark night of the soul. But, I still maintain that you are not alone. I'm sending prayers your way.

lunamoth

 

[path_of_one]

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. There are times in life where grief is overwhelming.

I have been in a depression before, and it sounds to me like you are experiencing a depression. It's different for different people, but that feeling of numbness, of disconnectedness, and pain that continues for a long time and disrupts your life so completely is a sign of depression. Some people wind up cutting themselves because they are desperate to feel something- anything- to get rid of the numbness.

If I were you I would get some medical help. If a depression is somewhat mild, people can sometimes crawl out of the darkness, clinging to religion, a loved one, something. But deep depression is often biochemical and it can be tremendously difficult to escape it. That you are harming yourself physically is a sign that you may need help to deal with this grief.

For what it's worth, things can get better. You are not this depression. You are not a ghost. You are a soul, whose depth is beyond measure, but who is currently in a lot of pain. The darkness of grief and pain will eventually subside, and the dawn will come. I know it is hard to believe that right now. You have my deepest compassion...

 

[truthseeker]

I've been there before.

I was married once. But I never really loved my spouse. I was really just a kid when I married - I think that I just wanted to prove that I was an adult. My younger brother lived in my house with me. He was murdered walking down the street. Three months later my marriage broke up. I met another person. It was love at first sight. It was hot at first sight. It was friendship at first sight. I think we both needed eachother and it was a 6 month fantasy. Then my 6 month fantasy had to go (military). I thought we could have a long distance relationship but we really couldn't handle it very well. I was devastated. I was walking death for 3 years. Tattooing, smoking, drinking, excessive eating; playing with knives, razor blades, and fire to see how skin cuts, bleeds and burns. I had to take off work for three months because I wanted to fight the people that I work with. I have good friends and relatives that really love me but that meant nothing because I felt deceived by love. I didn't want to go outside in the daytime because the sun burned my skin.

I was sitting at home watching a movie. The movie made me cry. I cried for 2 weeks. I yelled and screamed at God and told Him that he was a liar because if he is love why doesn't He step up to the plate? No answer. How could He show me love and then take it away? No answer. I fell down. I got up. I fell down again. Over and over. And then I decided to stay on my feet.

I'm still in pain. My body, My heart - still screams. But in the midst of it all, things are being revealed to me. I don't have that one love, but I use the love that is in me to embrace others. People think that I am so sexy, so loving. Humph. What they see is God. I'm still fighting for my life. The voice that says "get up, go to work." is God. The voice that says "everybody has their struggles, no need to get angry." is God. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities. Against the rulers of the darkness of this world - and spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God; that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day. And having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:12-13.

 

[lunamoth]

Geist, I wish I had a powerful testimony to share with you. Your words and the words spoken by other members spoken here recently pulverize my heart. But all I have to offer by way of experience are the everyday, mundane bumps and bruises of life, a life meandering slowly downhill until I realized Who was holding me in the palm of His hand. Teen years are hard, the worst, and losing your Grandfather and confidant is unspeakably hard. As much as 16 is glorified by our culture, I would never go back there. It gets better, it really does. You've gotten some good advice above--I hope some of it brings you comfort.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[Geist]

Don't be sorry for me!

I don't want peoples pity I'm just telling you the truth and like on most ocassions of my life its horrible, ugly and a bitch.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities. Against the rulers of the darkness of this world - and spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God; that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day. And having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:12-13.

No offence to you or your relgion but I read the Bible sometimes.. Its words give me no comfort whatsoever. I don't know why it dosn't but all I see is some ignorant man writting and trying to tell me that oh everything will be ok but I know it never was or will be.

Sounds like you are in the dark night of the soul.

I am the drak soul. Nothings changed from the moment of my birth. My life has been one disappiontment to the next for 16 years so really I'm getting used to it now.

If I were you I would get some medical help.

Why bother? If its going to go away it will go on its own and if its not then its not. I can live with it eaither way.

"Take your hatred out on me, make your victim my head you never ever belived in me, I am your torniquet." - Marlin Manson

 

[truthseeker]

Don't be sorry for me!

I don't want peoples pity I'm just telling you the truth and like on most ocassions of my life its horrible, ugly and a bitch.

I don't feel sorry for you. There are alot of people out there that haven't experienced jack and when you talk to them about some real **** they pat you on the back and say "oh it's okay". You know they don't mean it because they don't know what you're talking about. Ironically, I don't find religious comfort in the bible - whatever religious comfort is. But I know that there are things in there that make me say "hmmmm" and I never interpret this stuff in the way other people do.

No offence to you or your relgion but I read the Bible sometimes.. Its words give me no comfort whatsoever. I don't know why it dosn't but all I see is some ignorant man writting and trying to tell me that oh everything will be ok but I know it never was or will be.

You're right. From here on out there will only be sprinkles of people you can have a real conversation with. You will always be dark and deep to other people. But there's power and strength in that as long as you operate in love. The Book is for the layman. Write your own book. It's alright. You'll find, in time, that your understanding and willingness to stand against the pain of your challenges will inspire you and many others.

I'm not particularly well versed in the bible as some may be. But I have found stuff in there that have helped clear my mind through some of my challenges. I have also found sayings in Buddhism, Sikhism, and Islam to clear my mind too. The answers and empathy are everywhere. No one belief holds all of the truth.

 

[Geist]

I'm not particularly well versed in the bible as some may be. But I have found stuff in there that have helped clear my mind through some of my challenges. I have also found sayings in Buddhism, Sikhism, and Islam to clear my mind too. The answers and empathy are everywhere. No one belief holds all of the truth.

I have looked into many quotes in my short life and none have been particularly comforting. Just ditracting and thats all they ever will be. In my eyes you make your own life and that means I might have to make my own comforts...

 

[path_of_one]

I don't feel sorry for you, just for your loss. Losing those you love is really hard, and I'm just expressing my sympathies. I've been through some crappy things in my life, and I never wanted pity, but I did appreciate compassion.

I was only suggesting getting some help out of experience. If a depression is biochemical, it can be very overwhelming and sometimes the brain needs a little kick-start to get it back in the right chemical groove of things.

A depression is different from being a "dark" person, though, and only you can know who you are and what you need. Some find comfort in religious scriptures, others find comfort in music and art, others in nature... we do indeed all have to find where we can make our own comfort. May you find what your soul desires.