Could this be a Mistake?

Conscience said:
Why do people worship Jesus?
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YOU worship Jesus. Some Christians worship Jesus. Respect and Reverence is not the same as worship. To be in awe of the Holy Spirit in Jesus does not mean that you call the man God but that you give respect to the God that is in him. The culture of the written New Testament is different from not only modern culture but from the cultures of the lands in which Jesus walked. Back then a Master, Lord, and a God (in Greek) were commonplace titles for one who has higher social, academic, and mental status than you. Now that slavery is abolished in most societies, we generally do not use these titles but for that which you personally acknowledge is greater than you. While many Christians will argue Jesus' divinity, everybody doesn't believe that Jesus was God - in which they are right, because Jesus was the son of man. The God in him is revered only by a select group, and that is what makes us Christians.
 
I wasnt using the word worshiped as respect or reverence, but in the same sense that is given to God. Jesus is worshiped as such many times in Scripture. Why is that?
 
Conscience said:
I wasnt using the word worshiped as respect or reverence, but in the same sense that is given to God. Jesus is worshiped as such many times in Scripture. Why is that?
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I wasn't using the word worship as respect or reverence either. I am telling you that you have to look a little deeper. They respected and revered Jesus. You can do that without worshipping if you have your priorities straight and your pride isn't all in the way.
 
Hmmm? OK. Question: Does the bible say to pray, or give praise to anyone but God?
 
As a matter of fact, I think that it is the second commandment that tells us not to bow down or serve any graven image. Which to me, implies praying.

Praise is something different. You praise your child when s/he does well in school. You praise an orchestra for playing a great piece. You praise a good friend who was there during a very much needed time. To praise is to express approval or admiration. Which, I not only express admiration for good deeds, but I also express admiration for the deeds that directly affect my life. Which can be given to mankind or Christ as well.
 
"As a matter of fact, I think that it is the second commandment that tells us not to bow down or serve any graven image. Which to me, implies praying."

So why do Christian pray to Jesus? Was Jesus lying when he said to pray in his name?
 
Does​
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the fact that worship is given to Jesus prove that he is God?


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At Hebrews 1:6, the angels are instructed to "worship" Jesus, according to the rendering of RS, TEV, KJ, JB, and NAB. NW says "do obeisance to." At Matthew 14:33, Jesus’ disciples are said to have "worshiped" him, according to RS, TEV, KJ; other translations say that they "showed him reverence" (NAB), "bowed down before him" (JB), "fell at his feet" (NE), "did obeisance to him" (NW).​

The Greek word rendered "worship" is pro·sky·ne´o, which A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature says was also "used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground." (Chicago, 1979, Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker; second English edition; p. 716) This is the term used at Matthew 14:33 to express what the disciples did toward Jesus; at Hebrews 1:6 to indicate what the angels are to do toward Jesus; at Genesis 22:5 in the Greek Septuagint to describe what Abraham did toward Jehovah and at Genesis 23:7 to describe what Abraham did, in harmony with the custom of the time, toward people with whom he was doing business; at 1 Kings 1:23 in the Septuagint to describe the prophet Nathan’s action on approaching King David.​

At Matthew 4:10 (RS), Jesus said: "You shall worship [from pro·sky·ne´o] the Lord your God and him only shall you serve." (At Deuteronomy 6:13, which Jesus is evidently here quoting, appears the personal name of God, the Tetragrammaton.) In harmony with that, we must understand that it is pro·sky·ne´o with a particular attitude of heart and mind that should be directed only toward God.​



 
"The only certian barrier to truth, is the presumption that you already have it." You cant continue to only study something from a Jehovah's Witnesses perspective - gotta look out side the box. But, since you may find comfort in what you have known to be sure, please tell me why God calls Jesus "God" in the book of Hebrews?
 
Conscience said:
So why do Christian pray to Jesus? Was Jesus lying when he said to pray in his name?
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I, myself, pray to the Almighty God. I have sat down with many denominations within Christianity and I have never heard a prayer that was directed to Jesus. Not even Church of Christ does that. I have heard prayers that began with 'Dear Heavenly Father' and 'Almighty God' and 'Jehovah God' but they are always completed in The Name of Jesus. 'In The Name of Jesus' - that is giving respect and reverence to Jesus. Now if you talk to alot of Christians who are, say, not in full understanding of what they are saying when they pray - just going along with the motions, then they believe that they are praying to Jesus. I have heard people talk to Jesus. I have heard people talk to the Holy Spirit. But again, prayer is something different.
 
Conscience said:
"Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God. He made himself nothing; he took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form. And in human form he obediently humbled himself even further by dying a criminal's death on a cross." Philippians 2:5-8

Is the Bible wrong to say that Jesus is God?
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In my opinion, Conscience, you are asking the wrong question in relation to this nice piece of scripture. Personally, I'd rather focus on whether or not my attitude is sufficiently Christ-like, and be mindful of the times that I demand and cling to whatever might have my attention. Sometimes, I find myself consumed by certain passions that aren't so healthy; then, I like to step back and just kind of chill. Like how in a minute I'm going to turn off this computer and sit out on my balcony.

The important question, for me at least, to take away from this scripture, is "How can I humble myself further?"

Maybe someone else can comment about what's so special and especially energizing about humility. What kind of perspectives does humility open up? Or perhaps that is material for a new thread...
 
Conscience said:
"The only certian barrier to truth, is the presumption that you already have it." You cant continue to only study something from a Jehovah's Witnesses perspective - gotta look out side the box. But, since you may find comfort in what you have known to be sure, please tell me why God calls Jesus "God" in the book of Hebrews?
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The irony . . .
 
I don't see the problem in praying/revering the Father and the Christ and keeping them both separate in return. They both well deserve more than enough honor :)
 
For: Truth Seeker

Im surprised that you've never heard pray to Jesus. You've never heard someone say "Maranatha" -- Come quickly Lord? John prayed that pray to Jesus, and so do people that want him to come back NOW!

For: Pathless

I asked a question concerning a scripture that says Jesus is God. You didnt answer it.
 
:) :)
Conscience said:
"The only certian barrier to truth, is the presumption that you already have it." You cant continue to only study something from a Jehovah's Witnesses perspective - gotta look out side the box. But, since you may find comfort in what you have known to be sure, please tell me why God calls Jesus "God" in the book of Hebrews?
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i wasnt brought up a Jehovahs witness i was church of England . so i have looked out side the box and after looking at many religious beliefs decided that Jehovah witness have the truth , and i am happy with that , so rather than thinking i already had the truth i was more like the opposite really i was looking for the truth and i feel i have found it . any way lets look into hebrews which scripture are you referring to or did i miss it again ,must be my age
 
so i have looked out side the box and after looking at many religious beliefs decided that Jehovah witness have the truth

I didnt mean that you've always been a Jehovah's witness, just that you now adhear to it, and it alone. I could be wrong, but It seems that for answers to the questions I pose, you stay within the J.W.'s realm of reasoning - almost miopic in sense.

any way lets look into hebrews which scripture are you referring to or did i miss it again ,must be my age

Prehaps? But, here's the scripture anyway:Heb. 1:8
 
Conscience said:
so i have looked out side the box and after looking at many religious beliefs decided that Jehovah witness have the truth

I didnt mean that you've always been a Jehovah's witness, just that you now adhear to it, and it alone. I could be wrong, but It seems that for answers to the questions I pose, you stay within the J.W.'s realm of reasoning - almost miopic in sense.
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More irony...
 
Conscience said:
so i have looked out side the box and after looking at many religious beliefs decided that Jehovah witness have the truth

I didnt mean that you've always been a Jehovah's witness, just that you now adhear to it, and it alone. I could be wrong, but It seems that for answers to the questions I pose, you stay within the J.W.'s realm of reasoning - almost miopic in sense.

any way lets look into hebrews which scripture are you referring to or did i miss it again ,must be my age

Prehaps? But, here's the scripture anyway:Heb. 1:8
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But with reference to the Son: "God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness hebrews 1;8



Hebrews​
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1:8:


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RS​
reads: "Of the Son he says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.’" (KJ, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, NAB have similar renderings.) However, NW reads: "But with reference to the Son: ‘God is your throne forever and ever.’" (AT, Mo, TC, By convey the same idea.)


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Which rendering is harmonious with the context? The preceding verses say that God is speaking, not that he is being addressed; and the following verse uses the expression "God, thy God," showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God. Hebrews 1:8 quotes from Psalm 45:6, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Obviously, the Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God. Rather, Psalm 45:6, in RS, reads "Your divine throne." (NE says, "Your throne is like God’s throne." JP [verse 7]: "Thy throne given of God.") Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in Psalm 45, was said to sit "upon Jehovah’s throne." (1 Chron. 29:23, NW) In harmony with the fact that God is the "throne," or Source and Upholder of Christ’s kingship, Daniel 7:13, 14 and Luke 1:32 show that God confers such authority on him.​

Hebrews 1:8, 9 quotes from Psalm 45:6, 7, concerning which the Bible scholar B. F. Westcott states: "The LXX. admits of two renderings: [ho the·os´] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (Thy throne, O God, . . . therefore, O God, Thy God . . . ) or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the first case (God is Thy throne, or Thy throne is God . . . ), and in apposition to [ho the·os´ sou] in the second case (Therefore God, even Thy God . . . ). . . . It is scarcely possible that [’Elo·him´] in the original can be addressed to the king. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho the·os´] is a vocative in the LXX. Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.’"—The Epistle to the Hebrews (London, 1889), pp. 25, 26

 
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