the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective

[mee]

regardless if his true name is the holy name yhwh, if you are not sure, god knows this, he already knows what you are going to pray about, and what is in your heart. reciting things, making alot of useless body movements, calling him yahweh, or the incorrect or correct english translation of jehovah or just simply using universally accepted and mainstream god as both his name and title is not as important as fearing and loving him and believing in his son and asking for forgiveness.

For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Romans 10;14-15......and i could add to that by saying how would they know his name if it is taken out of the bible

 

[truthseeker]

To piggyback on Quahom's point, I think it is proper to be careful of when and how we address God. Jews, who apparently are the first to know His name, are careful of the usage of His name in reverence. Also, I think the written Hebrew language doesn't use consonants anyway.

I've come to understand in a short amount of time that everybody here has a purpose. In religion, we take on a spiritual purpose. I'd like to think, at this time, that JWs are quite fitting in the spiritual purpose. They appear to be, to me, a mobilization of the sword and shield for the end time. Kind of like soldiers, if I can respectfully be so bold. I guess the NWT could be a fitting translation for Christian soldiers of the end time. Some of us have some purposes and other purposes but even for that purpose, one must be properly educated for such a task. I guess JW seek to do that.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Romans 10;14-15......and i could add to that by saying how would they know his name if it is taken out of the bible

i think you are changing the subject by addressing what jews in the old testament did and what we do. i am concerned with what we do now, and to be saved you have to ask jesus christ our Lord for forgiveness.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

 

[Quahom1]

... Also, I think the written Hebrew language doesn't use consonants anyway.

I've come to understand in a short amount of time that everybody here has a purpose. In religion, we take on a spiritual purpose. I'd like to think, at this time, that JWs are quite fitting in the spiritual purpose. They appear to be, to me, a mobilization of the sword and shield for the end time. Kind of like soldiers, if I can respectfully be so bold. I guess the NWT could be a fitting translation for Christian soldiers of the end time. Some of us have some purposes and other purposes but even for that purpose, one must be properly educated for such a task. I guess JW seek to do that.

Interesting point Truth. I never looked at it that way, but it makes sense. An awful lot of sense...

Mee is a soldier...hmmm who would've thought?

 

[mee]

i think you are changing the subject by addressing what jews in the old testament did and what we do. i am concerned with what we do now, and to be saved you have to ask jesus christ our Lord for forgiveness.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.John 17;3 NIV.... And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent....JOHN 17;3...KJV
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ...john 17;3So acording to this verse we need to take in knowledge about Jehovah God and Jesus christ ,not just Jesus. it seems to me that by taking the name of God away from the bible and putting LORD where it should be Jehovah,this only serves to push the name of the true God into the back ground . in the verse in romans 10;13 it should be Jehovah .

 

[mee]

Interesting point Truth. I never looked at it that way, but it makes sense. An awful lot of sense...

Mee is a soldier...hmmm who would've thought?

LOL
but God chose the foolish things of the world .... 1 corinthians 1;27 yes thats me, i am sure of that one..lol

Above all things, take up the large shield of faith, with which YOU will be able to quench all the wicked one’s burning missiles. Also, accept the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, that is, God’s word Ephesians 6;16-17

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.John 17;3 NIV.... And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent....JOHN 17;3...KJV
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ...john 17;3So acording to this verse we need to take in knowledge about Jehovah God and Jesus christ ,not just Jesus. it seems to me that by taking the name of God away from the bible and putting LORD where it should be Jehovah,this only serves to push the name of the true God into the back ground . in the verse in romans 10;13 it should be Jehovah .

yes believe in jesus and god, of course, i thought that went without saying. and to quote "it should be Jehovah" i would say it can be jehovah if you truly believe that, or yahweh by using hebrew, the language in which gods name was spoken to his people, or just simply calling his name god.

a messianic jewish scriptural view:
"Hebrew name YHWH "Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey" in the Jewish Scriptures. Many have guessed, with saying it is Jehovah or Yaweh, but it is said by the Jewish people traditionally and historically, that it is unpronounceable. In fact it is traditionally said that only the High Priest knew this trusted pronounciation and that it was lost after the destruction of the Temple. Out of respect and fear for mispronouncing His Name, the word Adonia (Lord), God, and the expression HaShem (The Name) is said when His name is seen in the Hebrew Bible and when used in Jewish synagogue prayers, and writings, etc. When vowell marks were added to the Jewish Bible to help Jews and others to be able to read and speak the text accurately, no vowell marks were given for His Name "Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey". I know most all English translations of the Bible use Jehovah. Personally I think this is wrong. "

Nothing in the Torah prohibits a person from pronouncing the Name of God. Indeed, it is evident from scripture that God's Name was pronounced routinely. Many common Hebrew names contain "Yah" or "Yahu," part of God's four-letter Name. The Name was pronounced as part of daily services in the Temple.

Some people render the four-letter Name as "Jehovah," but this pronunciation is particularly unlikely. The word "Jehovah" comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name "Adonai" (the usual substitute for YHVH) under the consonants of YHVH to remind people not to pronounce YHVH as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH, and the name stuck.

"JW also admit that Jehovah is not the correct name "down through the centuries, the correct pronunciation of the divine name in Hebrew has been lost. Hence, it is uncertain what vowels should be used to fill in the name."(WatchTower Feb.1, 1980)."

they said lost but if one goes to jewish literature:
"THE UNIVERSAL JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA says "JEHOVAH is an erroneous pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton a four lettered name of God, made up of the Hebrew letters Yod He Vav He. The word "JEHOVAH" therefore is a misreading for which there is no warrant and which makes no sense in Hebrew" The Hebrew letters point to a Yod Y the more correct pronunciation is Yahweh or some form deriving from the same consonants. For example Yah is used in its shorter form in Ex.15:2 and 17:15, Isa.12:2 and Ps.118:14 ."

 

[mee]

In the Hebrew language it is written יהוה. These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton, are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH. God’s name, represented by these four consonants, appears almost 7,000 times in the original "Old Testament," or Hebrew Scriptures.




​

The name is a form of a Hebrew verb ha·wah´ meaning "to become," and actually signifies "He Causes to Become." Thus, God’s name identifies him as the One who progressively fulfills his promises and unfailingly realizes his purposes. Only the true God could bear such a meaningful name.

 

[E99]

Hello Blaznfattz

Your QUOTE......
"true, peoples names get translated into different languages and have a different spelling and pronunciation, but to say gods name and peoples names get changed in the same sentence is not right, especially when you say hallowed be thy name. i mean some dude, just changed this hallowed name from its original form."

If you think that its not right to change the name, (Which it hasn't....its a transliteration,) look at how everything seems to change in the whole translated sentence.(Below.)
​

Its not only a name that gets 'changed', what also changes is the syntax, grammar, words etc.... in an attempt to get the Anglicized meaning by changing to the English syntax, grammar and words. It has to be done....Here is how it starts out to its to finish ....The first part of the 'Lords' model prayer....

Matthew 6:9

Greek.....................

Hout O oun proseuchomai su pater ego ho en ho ouranos hagiazo ho onoma su.

Which translates nearly word for word................

Thus then be-praying you father of us the in the heavens let be holyized the name of you.

Put into English (Ye olde English. KJV Authorised version).............

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father, which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Modern 'cool dude' version. ( New linear translation).......

Pray like this: Our father in heaven, may your name be honored.

Its about getting the true sense of the meaning from one language translated to another language. It is true of the grammar etc. and also of the words. The meaning is not lost, but the words, obviously, have completely changed. The Anglicized name Jehovah in other verses simply follows this transliteration tradition.....
Father for pater. Jehovah for YHWH.


Your QUOTE:

" this isnt about some dude named jeremiah, this is about gods name. whatever is gods name in its original language should stay that way. if it is yhwh and the true spelling has been lost, then so be it. if it is yahweh, then it should stay that way."



If you believe that, then you should believe it of the name Jesus. You believe that he was God also ? So I'm curious as to why you think that the name Jehovah should not be used.

I have a question....If you believe that the Anglicized name Jehovah should not be used because of the possible offence that it could cause to Jehovah God and others, mainly due to the divine status of God, then should you not also discount the usage of the Anglicized name Jesus ?
I suspect that you are trinitarian, so you put Jesus on an equal standing of divinity with that of Jehovah, so surely, in your view, the Anglicized name Jesus could be equally offensive to God and others. If indeed he is God ?
(I'm not putting this up to start off a side track debate on the trinity, as so often happens, but to question the usage of an Anglicized proper name for God, .....Gods name where known within the triunity concept...Jesus or Jehovah.)

​

The fact is, even the name "Jesus" does not appear in any Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible. Why ? Because Jesus is an Anglicized form of the Hebrew word Yeshua or Yehoshua and the Greek word Iesous.



Hi Mee.....Brother, (or Sister ! ?)

Your QUOTE:

"but God chose the foolish things of the world .... 1 corinthians 1;27 yes thats me, i am sure of that one..lol."

Same here. One unfortunate prophetic statement that can be proved !

 

[BlaznFattyz]

if you think you are saying it right and believe it to be the name im sure thats all that matters to you. no matter what anyone says (even if jewish/hebrew scholars know the correct name, and jw recognize jehovah is a misspelling of ywhw) it wont stop you, so it doesnt matter really what anyone says.

the issue between mainstream christianity and jw may be something alittle more important than that. everytime jw's take out what the original authors wrote and substitute it with jehova, it isnt just the name, its the conotations behind it. that being jw's not believing in the trinity the same way as the jesus stated that he his father and the holy spirit are one. so when a jw says "jehova god" (even when that pairing is no where in the bible) they are talking about something different then when christians say refer to god our lord.

 

[mee]

if you think you are saying it right and believe it to be the name im sure thats all that matters to you. no matter what anyone says (even if jewish/hebrew scholars know the correct name, and jw recognize jehovah is a misspelling of ywhw) it wont stop you, so it doesnt matter really what anyone says.

the issue between mainstream christianity and jw may be something alittle more important than that. everytime jw's take out what the original authors wrote and substitute it with jehova, it isnt just the name, its the conotations behind it. that being jw's not believing in the trinity the same way as the jesus stated that he his father and the holy spirit are one. so when a jw says "jehova god" (even when that pairing is no where in the bible) they are talking about something different then when christians say refer to god our lord.

The fact is we havent taken the devine name away, we have put it back where it rightly belongs, we do not believe in the trinity because it is not a bible teaching , and yes Jesus is a mighty one , but he is not the Allmighty , there is only one true God .and Jesus is the first-born son of That true God Jehovah. and yes, there is a huge difference between christendom, and the bible teachings of JW , its the difference between faithfulness to the bible and its teachings ,and unfaithfulness ,yes there is a very big gap between the two ,that was very plain for me to see when i decided to compare the teaching of christendom with the teaching of JW , i could see that JW ,they stick to the bible very closely and have not taken on the trappings of other things, in fact they have cast certain things away from them when they realized from their study of the bible that it was not in line with true teaching in line with the bible ,now that is humility to recognize that what they were doing was not a true teaching and cast it out. yes to worship in spirit and truth is the aim of JW just as Jesus was a faithful witness that is the aim of JW

 

[Curios Mike]

WOW this thread got popular pretty quick! I had to search hard for my last post and the answer.LOL YEs about Our churches starting off similar. U stated about knowing the Fruits... The ladies and gents that started up our version of the reinstated 1st century church boar the fruits of the spirit, but you still never stated how it all got started???? for the JW clan....

 

[E99]

Hi Blaznfattyz.......

​

Your QUOTE:
a messianic jewish scriptural view:
"Hebrew name YHWH "Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey" in the Jewish Scriptures. Many have guessed, with saying it is Jehovah or Yaweh, but it is said by the Jewish people traditionally and historically, that it is unpronounceable. In fact it is traditionally said that only the High Priest knew this trusted pronounciation and that it was lost after the destruction of the Temple.


The 'many' haven't blindly guessed the name Jehovah or Yahweh, it is based on analysis of ancient Hebrew manuscipts, Hebrew language, and the way other biblical names have been translated. (Below.) Certain facts are known, and the Anglicized name is based on these facts.


How can they say that it is unpronouncable when it was spoken aloud by so many OT prophets, judges, kings and the whole populace ? Its full pronounciation might be lost now, but it can still be recognised in any language by an all knowing being...Jehovah God himself.

High priest only ! There were many more biblical characters in the bible that were not high priests that used, pronounced and wrote the name of Jehovah in many contexts. Just look at the bible. Jehovah is mentioned 6972 times. More than all other names put together.



Your QUOTE:

"Out of respect and fear for mispronouncing His Name, the word Adonia (Lord), God, and the expression HaShem (The Name) is said when His name is seen in the Hebrew Bible and when used in Jewish synagogue prayers, and writings, etc. When vowell marks were added to the Jewish Bible to help Jews and others to be able to read and speak the text accurately, no vowell marks were given for His Name "Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey". I know most all English translations of the Bible use Jehovah. Personally I think this is wrong. "



Exactly.....Not spoken, and nearly obliterated out of fear. The reason why Jehovah, the name of God was taken out of the scrolls on translation from Hebrew to Greek. Pure superstitions.
God wants his name to be known. There are so many scriptures that bare this out.
Adoni refers to 'my God' and adonai refers to God.
By taking out Jehovah, the name of God in the scriptures you end up with a jumble e.g.. Psalms 110:1 in the NASB:

"The LORD says to my Lord: Sit at my right hand."

This scripture should use the name Jehovah in the first instance of the mistransliterated generic term adonai (lord.) There is no founding reason to take away the name of God.


Jehovah wants his name to be known.......

"That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth." Ps 83:18 King James Version


"And I will sanctify my great name, which hath been profaned among the nations, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am Jehovah, saith the Lord Jehovah, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes." Ezekiel 36:23 ASV

​

John 12:28 (ASV) "Father, glorify thy name. There came therefore a voice out of heaven, [saying], I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again'

Do you also wish not to use his name out of fear ? Don't be afraid. Jehovah wants his name to be used.


Your QUOTE:

"THE UNIVERSAL JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA says "JEHOVAH is an erroneous pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton a four lettered name of God, made up of the Hebrew letters Yod He Vav He. The word "JEHOVAH" therefore is a misreading for which there is no warrant and which makes no sense in Hebrew" The Hebrew letters point to a Yod Y the more correct pronunciation is Yahweh or some form deriving from the same consonants. For example Yah is used in its shorter form in Ex.15:2 and 17:15, Isa.12:2 and Ps.118:14 ."

Some people render the four-letter Name as "Jehovah," but this pronunciation is particularly unlikely. The word "Jehovah" comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name "Adonai" (the usual substitute for YHVH) under the consonants of YHVH to remind people not to pronounce YHVH as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH, and the name stuck


Not 100% correct. Neither an absolute reason not to use the Anglicized name of Jehovah.

Here are Bible names that use the 1st part of the Divine Name:


Jehoaddah (literally YEHOADDA)
Jehoaddan (literally YEHOADDAN)
Jehoahaz (literally YEHOAHAZ)
Jehoash (literally YEHOAS)
Jehohanan (literally YEHOHANAN)
Jehoiachin (literally YEHOYAKIN)
Jehoiada (literally YEHOYADA)
Jehoiakim (literally YEHOYAQIM)
Jehoiarib (literally YEHOYARIB)
Jehonadab (literally YEHONADAB)
Jehonathan (literally YEHONATAN)
Jehoram (literally YEHORAM)
Jehoshabeath (literally YEHOSABAT)
Jehoshaphat (literally YEHOSAPAT)
Jehosheba (literally YEHOSEBA)
Jehoshua (literally YEHOSUA)
Jehozabad (literally YEHOZABAD)
Jehozadak (literally YEHOSADAQ)


To say that Jehovah is an erroneous rendering is to say that all of the above names are erroneous renderings, and give no sense in Hebrew, but we, and you use them.
You'd better start learning Hebrew so that you can get in line with your thoughts of not using the name Jehovah ! You can't use the above Anglicized names either.


As pointed out before, Yahweh is a poor representation of the tetragrammaton YHWH Jehovah the central vowel is dropped which is never the case in the names of biblical persons with the divine name intrinsically incorporated within them (as above.) They are never two syllable.The Hebrews always used the middle vowel in names.
So repetition for emphasis.......


It has been shown that the original was not bisyllable "Yahweh" but a trisyllabic one "Yehowah."... A Hebrew approxiamation. Jehovah then would be a correct English trisyllable transliteration of the original.

A two-syllable pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton as "Yahweh" would not allow for the o vowel sound to exist as part of God’s name. But in the many biblical names that incorporate the divine name, this middle vowel sound appears in both the original and the shortened forms, as in Jehonathan and Jonathan.

Thus, Quote: Professor Buchanan says regarding the divine name:

"In no case is the vowel oo or oh omitted. The word was sometimes abbreviated as ‘Ya,’ but never as ‘Ya-weh.’ . . . When the Tetragrammaton was pronounced in one syllable it was ‘Yah’ or ‘Yo.’ When it was pronounced in three syllables it would have been ‘Yahowah’ or ‘Yahoowah.’ If it was ever abbreviated to two syllables it would have been ‘Yaho.’(not Yahweh) -Biblical Archaeology Review.

J in German is pronounced like an English Y. Theological studies having come from the German sources, we get an English J and the Y intermix.

Should we change Jacob, Joseph, Jehoshaphat, Joshua etc. to begin with a Y, and should we at this late date change Jehovah to Yahweh."


Your QUOTE:
"JW also admit that Jehovah is not the correct name "down through the centuries, the correct pronunciation of the divine name in Hebrew has been lost. Hence, it is uncertain what vowels should be used to fill in the name."(WatchTower Feb.1, 1980)."


That was 25 years ago, since, more has come to light. Of course it is not the exact name. Its not known. Jehovah is the Anglicized name not the Hebrew one. But God wants us to use his name, so the omnipotent being knew what was going to happen in the future and the thousands of languages that would develop from his original sets of Babel confused languages, so that he allows for this, and readily accepts anyone that attempts to use his name.

God is love, and by this love he accepts his 'children' calling upon his name. What he wants to do is distinguish between his name Jehovah and the title God. this makes a big difference, because the title God is used for many divine beings and other things in the bible.

1 Corinthians 8 :5 For even though there are those who are called gods, wether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many gods and many lords.

Philippians 3:19 And their finish is destruction and their god is their belly.

Commandment......Jehovah is a god exacting exclusive devotion, so we give Him that exact recognition.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Your QUOTE:
"JW also admit that Jehovah is not the correct name "down through the centuries, the correct pronunciation of the divine name in Hebrew has been lost. Hence, it is uncertain what vowels should be used to fill in the name."(WatchTower Feb.1, 1980)."


your quote "That was 25 years ago, since, more has come to light. Of course it is not the exact name. Its not known. Jehovah is the Anglicized name not the Hebrew one. But God wants us to use his name, so the omnipotent being knew what was going to happen in the future and the thousands of languages that would develop from his original sets of Babel confused languages, so that he allows for this, and readily accepts anyone that attempts to use his name."

yes i have mentioned the above on earlier posts as well. like i also said in earlier threads, and this has been for every christian church i have attended, we use jehovah once in a while, as well as other names for god. but when names get changed in different languages is one thing that i think most accept. the HUGE difference is when jw's say the name jehova they are not sharing the same meaning of the name with christians, which is why jw's have difficulty with the scriptures when god calls jesus god, and jesus calls himself god, and he and god are one and both i am, and becuase of that they use a bible that changes the original scripture to fit what they believe, isnt that right?

JOHN 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ... Col 2:9for in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.... Hebrews 1:7-8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the sceptre of your kingdom. (John 10:30-33) I and the Father are one. - (Romans 9:5) Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. (Tit 2:13) while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, (Exo 3:14- 15) God said to Moses, "I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' (John 8:58) “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!”

 

[mee]

Your QUOTE:
"JW also admit that Jehovah is not the correct name "down through the centuries, the correct pronunciation of the divine name in Hebrew has been lost. Hence, it is uncertain what vowels should be used to fill in the name."(WatchTower Feb.1, 1980)."


your quote "That was 25 years ago, since, more has come to light. Of course it is not the exact name. Its not known. Jehovah is the Anglicized name not the Hebrew one. But God wants us to use his name, so the omnipotent being knew what was going to happen in the future and the thousands of languages that would develop from his original sets of Babel confused languages, so that he allows for this, and readily accepts anyone that attempts to use his name."

yes i have mentioned the above on earlier posts as well. like i also said in earlier threads, and this has been for every christian church i have attended, we use jehovah once in a while, as well as other names for god. but when names get changed in different languages is one thing that i think most accept. the HUGE difference is when jw's say the name jehova they are not sharing the same meaning of the name with christians, which is why jw's have difficulty with the scriptures when god calls jesus god, and jesus calls himself god, and he and god are one and both i am, and becuase of that they use a bible that changes the original scripture to fit what they believe, isnt that right?

JOHN 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ... Col 2:9for in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.... Hebrews 1:7-8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the sceptre of your kingdom. (John 10:30-33) I and the Father are one. - (Romans 9:5) Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. (Tit 2:13) while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, (Exo 3:14- 15) God said to Moses, "I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' (John 8:58) “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!”

so then getting back to what JW believe inline with the whole of the bible,
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in [the] beginning with God john 1;1-2

(Proverbs 8:30) then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,​

(John 17:5) So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was .....yes Gods son was in the heavens before he came to the earth he (Jesus) was the first-born of jehovah ,but everything else that was created after Jesus, was created through Jesus himself , he was a master worker

(Colossians 1:16) because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him

(Genesis 1:26) And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." .......yes let us make man , here Jehovah God is speaking to his son when he was in his pre-human form in the heavens with Jehovah God .










​

(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

(Micah 5:2) "And you, O Beth´le·hem Eph´ra·thah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite....yes his origin is from early times right back to in the beginning with God in the heavens

(Proverbs 8:22) "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago



(John 8:58) Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.......yes he was before Abraham he is the first-born of creation



(Colossians 1:17) Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist


(Philippians 2:6) who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.....yes when he was in the heavens he was a master worker but he never tried to be equal to God

YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am john 14;28


(Revelation 3:14) "And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,
(John 1:14) So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth

(John 3:16) "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.






​

(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him. yes, JW believe that Jesus is Gods only begotten son just as the bible teaches

(Romans 8:32) He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things?



(Colossians 1:15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

(Hebrews 1:2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things ..........yes as the bible tells us Jesus is Gods son not God himself

 

[mee]

WOW this thread got popular pretty quick! I had to search hard for my last post and the answer.LOL YEs about Our churches starting off similar. U stated about knowing the Fruits... The ladies and gents that started up our version of the reinstated 1st century church boar the fruits of the spirit, but you still never stated how it all got started???? for the JW clan....

the faithful slave spoken of in matthew 24;45-47was started at pentecost 33 c.e
"Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics?"—MATTHEW 24:45

What about today? When Jesus’ presence began in 1914, did he find a group of anointed Christians who were faithfully dispensing food at the proper time? He certainly did. This group could be clearly identified because of the fine fruitage that it was producing. (Matthew 7:20) History since then has proved this identification to be correct

Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men] matthew 7;20

 

[BlaznFattyz]

..........yes as the bible tells us Jesus is Gods son not God himself

i disagree, and just so everyone knows jw believe jesus is michael the archangel and not god, which is not told in the bible, isnt that right?

if jesus is an archangel, then the bible tells us do not worship angels, only god. so god said to worship jesus, because jesus is in the father and the father is in jesus, , and they are one from beginning, and jesus is eternal life and the only way to salvation:

when john saw an angel he bowed down, but this happened:
(Rev 22:8-9) I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me.9. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow-servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”

Jesus is to be worshipped.
(Hebrews 1:5-8) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”? And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.”

But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever..."

Jesus is the only saviour
(Isa 43:11) I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no saviour.
(Acts 4:11-12) He is “ ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone. Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

Jesus is the the great I AM, the first and the last, our God:
(Isa 44:6) "This is what the LORD says- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
(Rev 1:17)I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Rev 21:6- 7) He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

from prophecy in old testament to fulfillment in new testament, jesus is our god. what is the jw perspective on these prophecies/fulfillments?
​

 

[mee]

i disagree, and just so everyone knows jw believe jesus is michael the archangel and not god, which is not told in the bible, isnt that right?

thats ok if you disagree , this thread is about the beliefs of JW not really a debate thread , i am putting over what we believe, if you disagree thats fine the understanding about the bible is progressive ,in these last days new understanding about the bible is like the light getting brighter and brighter Regarding progressive spiritual enlightenment, Proverbs 4:18 has proved true. It says: "The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established

Clear understanding of God’s Word doesnot come all at once. In many cases in the past and now,the early bible students and JW now,grasp one detail of the pattern of truth but do not always see the complete picture. Nevertheless, the early bible students and JW now,were willing to learn. They are not creed-bound; they were and are now,progressive. What they learn they share. They donot take credit for the things they taught; their aim is tobe "taught by Jehovah." (John 6:45) And they came to appreciate that Jehovah makes possible the understanding of the details of his purpose in his own time and in his own way.​

And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end...Daniel 12;9

I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming JOHN16;12-13

Learning new things requires adjustments in viewpoint. If mistakes are going to be admitted and beneficial changes made, humility is needed. This quality and its fruits are desirable to Jehovah, and such a course strongly appeals to lovers of truth. (Zeph. 3:12) But it is ridiculed by those who glory in creeds that have remained unchanged for many centuries, though these were formulated by imperfect men

 

[Quahom1]

thats ok if you disagree , this thread is about the beliefs of JW not really a debate thread , i am putting over what we believe, if you disagree thats fine the understanding about the bible is progressive ,in these last days new understanding about the bible is like the light getting brighter and brighter Regarding progressive spiritual enlightenment, Proverbs 4:18 has proved true. It says: "The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established

Clear understanding of God’s Word doesnot come all at once. In many cases in the past and now,the early bible students and JW now,grasp one detail of the pattern of truth but do not always see the complete picture. Nevertheless, the early bible students and JW now,were willing to learn. They are not creed-bound; they were and are now,progressive. What they learn they share. They donot take credit for the things they taught; their aim is tobe "taught by Jehovah." (John 6:45) And they came to appreciate that Jehovah makes possible the understanding of the details of his purpose in his own time and in his own way.​

And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end...Daniel 12;9

I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming JOHN16;12-13

Learning new things requires adjustments in viewpoint. If mistakes are going to be admitted and beneficial changes made, humility is needed. This quality and its fruits are desirable to Jehovah, and such a course strongly appeals to lovers of truth. (Zeph. 3:12) But it is ridiculed by those who glory in creeds that have remained unchanged for many centuries, though these were formulated by imperfect men

Absolutely correct. This is a thread about the JW's beliefs, not a debate on the merits of such...

v/r

Q

 

[17th Angel]

Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

What a profound statement, Virtual Cliff. Interesting that you brought something to my attention. BTW, it's nice to see you around - haven't seen you in a while.

I have met other Christians whose faith is based more on their fear of the devil than on their love of God as well. Most of them were/are Jehovah's Witnesses. These people seem to be more in contact with demonic forces more than any other denomination of Christianity that I've known. My grandmother spoke of the same things that E99 speak of. Not to say that JW draws demons, but that it is a religion which is a sort of 'safe haven' for those who have a good healthy fear of the devil. Hmmm. I guess that is why I have such a problem with JWs. Guess it all depends on how you view the spirit world.

I've always thought that if you carry a demon with you, then it can attract other demons. Interesting.

I do not believe this to be at all true for an overall look at JW's. I have three of them over my house on Saturday mornings, whenever I even mention demons, satan or hell they will briefly mention an answer then move on swiftly.