Gifts of the Spirit

cavalier said:
To Quahom and RubySera
Just curiosity, have you ever read anyone wrong?

Thanks

First, I think my way of reading and Quahom's way of reading people are totally different. I think mine is on the emotional level and Quahom's is on the spiritual level.

I am constantly getting into trouble because I give people too much credit. I tend to discount my vibes because I can't imagine a person being really that low-down as it would seem. But they really are. Probably my vibes are always reliable but many times I am feeling too confused about something to know for sure what my real vibes are. I suspect this confusion is due to severe abuse and oppression on the spiritual and emotional levels most of my life. I removed myself from the situation several years ago but I still struggle with some of the old issues. However, as more healing takes place I get more in touch with my real feelings or vibes and trust them more. And now that you mention it, I would hazzard a guess that they are quite reliable and dependable.

I am curious why you ask.
 
RubySera_Martin said:
First, I think my way of reading and Quahom's way of reading people are totally different. I think mine is on the emotional level and Quahom's is on the spiritual level...

I would have to agree. I don't see the emotions of people. I see something behind. Maybe Ruby, you are an empath (wouldn't be so strange nowadays). We say it all the time to those closest to us "I can read you like a book". Only you may not have to be close to somone to "read them".

my thoughts

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
I would have to agree. I don't see the emotions of people. I see something behind. Maybe Ruby, you are an empath (wouldn't be so strange nowadays). We say it all the time to those closest to us "I can read you like a book". Only you may not have to be close to somone to "read them".
I certainly don't. It shows in people's posts all the time. In real life I don't even have to know people's language; it shows in their tone of voice and body language. There have been times when I felt like I should intervene in disagreements but I didn't even know their language, not to mention these specific individuals. Are you saying most people are not like this???

Okay, that's another insight on what "normal" people are like. I assumed everybody does this all the time but they just know better when to intervene and when to let things go.

I've never seen the word empath before but I am empathetic. I can't even read the news because it upsets me too much--I put myself into the place of the people the news is about. For example, in the Katrina flood, what must it have been like to be trapped on a roof without food, clothes, medication, or even something to drink amid all that water? Yet I seem to be right in there and know what is happening in this world just by reading group discussions like this or hearing stray bits of coversation here and there. All I do it put together the different pieces of the puzzle and look at the pattern it makes. I'll have to Google the word empath to see what it means.

Ruby
 
RubySera_Martin said:
I found a website and it explains a few things that I have never been able to understand. Thanks for the tip.

Anytime...;)
 
Quahom1 said:
I'm not opposed, but I'm also not about to take up bandwidth here on things about "me". :rolleyes: ;)

I have posted here alot (you think?), and there are "sea stories" in amongst those posts. Perhaps in time, we can meet and I'll be happy to talk your ear off! :D
Yes, sure

Quahom1 said:
p.s. let us consider the first thought that seemed to be on people's minds...speaking in tongues? I have some thoughts on that, that I would like to share.
Thanks for your thoughts, especially those on this gift in the modern world. I'd never considered that but yes, I like it, it really does seem to be the simple and logical explanation.
 
RubySera_Martin said:
I am curious why you ask.

For the most part I guess it was just making conversation. That, coupled with a desire to find out more. MHO, I think everyone reads emotions to an extent, but from what you write it appears you do it on a much deeper level. I just wanted to understand a little better.

Andy
 
Ruby and Q- I've experienced the sorts of things you describe my entire life. And like you, Ruby, I discovered Myers-Briggs and my studies of shamans and concluded I was just born with a different way of perceiving the world. I never bothered to try to separate them out into different experiences. It does make sense, Q, to do so when I critically reflect on the "read" I get on people. I rarely talk about this stuff with people except those I'm really close to because I've been so misunderstood by folks. I've literally been told that these are not gifts from God, but from Satan- and that can be upsetting because I can't help it. I didn't choose to experience life this way.

I feel people's emotions- that's the empathy. I've known about this for a long time and learned to protect myself so I don't get overwhelmed. There's a lot of depressed and angry folks out there, and some situations (like hospitals, parties, etc.) can be really overwhelming as you get hit with the roller coaster of lots of people's feelings. On the flip side, some people radiate a wonderful love and events in which everyone is focused on the same thing (some churches, concerts) can be amazing experiences. This is the most common thing I experience- it happens literally all the time. Every day. With most everyone.

Occasionally, I get thoughts. Some people think so hard about something, they do what I'd call broadcasting. It's like someone shouting at you, but mentally. Tough to describe. Most people are quieter, but you can "tune in" if you try. I feel very ambiguous about all this- I can't help it when someone is "shouting" at me, but I feel like it is an invasion of privacy to "tune in" or to consciously broadcast myself, which I believe is possible from the experiences I've had.

As for what Q is calling spiritual discernment, I always thought of it as sensing people's true selves. Under the emotions and thoughts, their spirit. It's tough for me to describe. Most of the time, I just feel like people are normal, if that makes sense. Every so often, I meet someone who is exceptional in some way. Let's just say I completely understand what you mean by the hitchhiking, Q. The experience actually kind of frightens me. And there are some people who do not feel like people at all. I hate to say that. It sounds horrible and judgmental. But there are some people who don't feel "right" at all underneath- and it's a different sense than insanity, depression, rage, even sociopathy. This begins to sound crazy, so I'll stop there.

I sometimes get a read on someone long-distance, but it's a rarity. However, I get reads on people all the time (literally) that I am anywhere near in person. I've had experiences where I walk into a room and know someone in that room is suicidal, for example- then I can go find them. Some people have a resonance of sorts that changes the feel/vibe of the group and space, and just like honing in on where a sound is coming from, you can hone in who that is.

I will add that I'm well aware that the way I experience the world and people around me seems borderline schizophrenic to a psychologist. The difference is that I'm accurate and not paranoid. I don't have 100% accuracy, because all the stuff is filtered through my admittedly limited and fallible brain, but I generally am right and the information is often useful. Also, I can control my experiences somewhat. I can "up the volume" so to speak- make myself more sensitive- or turn it down so I get less overwhelmed. And, unlike schizophrenics, the feelings/thoughts/etc. I get are always tied to particular people or places (another topic- some places seem to have energetic resonances or memories of a sort). When I'm alone, which I often am because I find that most relaxing, I get nada.

I get practically nothing when it comes to prophecy.

As for tongues, as I understand/interpret the Bible, the gift of tongues is given in order to facilitate the spreading of the Gospel. It is a gift given to a speaker to speak the Good News to listeners who are not of the same language. It isn't a language of angels or other spirit-entities for the speaker's enjoyment.

BUT, I myself often experience tongues in the charismatic, second sense. That is, a nonsensical language (except to me, I know what I'm saying) that comes with spiritual ecstasy. I don't think this is a gift of the Spirit, but rather an experience of connecting to God for some people. That is, it isn't for the church, it's for the self. I've noted in my study of religion and culture that many shamanic and mystical traditions include the practice of trancing- of getting into altered states of consciousness in which people experience spiritual ecstasy (feelings of overwhelming connectedness to God and everything, love, joy, peace). This has often been felt by the Christian mystics as well. A common side effect of trancing is to speak in nonsense languages. This happens to me all the time, and it's the same language (if you can call it that) every time. Mostly, I want to sing to God in it, not talk. This is not a gift of tongues, but just part of the ecstatic experience. And, like trance in general, I can choose to bring on this state through various means- for me, meditation, breath work, and dance/music works fine. It's always happened spontaneously every now and then too. I can choose to shift to the altered state or not, but I can't choose the opportunity to do so. That is, I feel what is like an offer, a gateway of my spirit opening up. Then I can choose to shift over to that other state, or not. Kind of like that state when you're falling asleep and starting to dream, but still aware of your surroundings and could choose to wake up. The feeling of trance is great and very euphoric, but as a Christian, I believe it is important to remember that the goal is not just to have that feeling. There is some transformative work that should happen for the self, otherwise there is the danger of becoming addicted to the spiritual high of trance, which I believe can be counterproductive.

What I will say is a bit confusing to me is how it all fits together. I have others of these types of experiences or gifts that are not in these categories too. Some are lifelong things and others are things I learned I could do if I tried. I generally feel very ambiguous about it all, especially the things I've more or less learned how to do after trying. It's difficult to explain. I was raised to avoid power of any kind if at all possible, and a lot of these gifts give you some amount of power over others and your own life in a way that is not normal. I often vacillate between my desire to learn how to control my own mind more and my own intellectual curiousity of what is possible for me, and my worries about overstepping the boundaries that are "right" in terms of living according to God's will and not my own.
 
Path of One, thanks for sharing. I feel very normal compared to those kinds of things. Sometimes I suspect I could learn how to do more things but I don't feel the need; I don't know how it could contribute to anyone's life, either my own or another's. Yet I have this feeling that if it were shoved into my hands I would be willing to learn and God would have a way to make it contribute in some way. My mother's grandfather had some special powers of healing. I don't know anyone else in my family who gets treated by others as being so "different" like I do, so I assume I inherited something unusual from him.

My dad is considered wierd by a lot of people but he's just one of those people who was put in a certain life situation and expected to be successful. Both my parents are very intelligent and insightful people. I never realized this until this past year or so when I compared notes from my childhood with other people I know. It's just coming to me now as I try to explain things. It seems they were very creative in how to raise their children in the faith as opposed to just teaching us how to make money or do well in business.

I know I have hurt them deeply by leaving the church in which they raised me but there are factors of life beyond my control and it was not possible to stay in that community. Like you, I did not choose to be born this way. I did my best--far beyond what is reasonable almost--to fit into the community and live the way my parents wanted me to. There is nothing I desired more. But when one is broken in soul and body and only barely at middle age, something has to change. Esp. if those problems are directly related to suppressing who one is born to be.

So here I am, penniless, nearly fifty, and still working on my education. God got me into this and he's got to get me out. That is all I know to say. I could never have gotten to where I am without help from somewhere. And I realize this is way off topic. Sorry.
 
Quahom1 said:
I would have to agree. I don't see the emotions of people. I see something behind. Maybe Ruby, you are an empath (wouldn't be so strange nowadays). We say it all the time to those closest to us "I can read you like a book". Only you may not have to be close to somone to "read them".

my thoughts

v/r

Q

Hope this doesn't get too off topic, but the first time I ever heard the word "empath' was on a Star Trek episode entitled, appropriately enough, "The Empath". It was about a mute woman from a race of beings who had the ability to physically heal people by the touch, but by doing so they takes on the sickness or injury of the person she is trying to heal. But her problem was whether or not she was willing to use her gift unselfishly. The aliens who were conducting experiments with her explained that if her planet was to survive, she must be willing to sacrifice herself fully, even if it means she would die in the process. Quite an interesting episode.

But that brings up the point about using our gifts for the betterment of others. Using gifts in an unselfish way. While we should desire the best gifts, we ought to do so not for the sake of gaining the gift itself, but to give of our selfs service to others. Remember what Paul said about speaking the tongues of angels or prophesying. Without love, it is nothing (I Cor 13-1-3).

I've been around some Pentacostal/Charismatic circles where to service was just a wave of confusion, everyone babbling tongues and seemlingly little order. I don't see the benefit of this, especially for the visitors. I tend to think that this sort of thing would drive them away.

That said, I still allow for the possibility for the supernatural Gifts of the Spirit to operate today. I would think it would be more effective on a one on one basis.
 
path_of_one said:
BUT, I myself often experience tongues in the charismatic, second sense. That is, a nonsensical language (except to me, I know what I'm saying) that comes with spiritual ecstasy. I don't think this is a gift of the Spirit, but rather an experience of connecting to God for some people. That is, it isn't for the church, it's for the self. I've noted in my study of religion and culture that many shamanic and mystical traditions include the practice of trancing- of getting into altered states of consciousness in which people experience spiritual ecstasy (feelings of overwhelming connectedness to God and everything, love, joy, peace). This has often been felt by the Christian mystics as well. A common side effect of trancing is to speak in nonsense languages. This happens to me all the time, and it's the same language (if you can call it that) every time. Mostly, I want to sing to God in it, not talk. This is not a gift of tongues, but just part of the ecstatic experience. And, like trance in general, I can choose to bring on this state through various means- for me, meditation, breath work, and dance/music works fine. It's always happened spontaneously every now and then too. I can choose to shift to the altered state or not, but I can't choose the opportunity to do so. That is, I feel what is like an offer, a gateway of my spirit opening up. Then I can choose to shift over to that other state, or not. Kind of like that state when you're falling asleep and starting to dream, but still aware of your surroundings and could choose to wake up. The feeling of trance is great and very euphoric, but as a Christian, I believe it is important to remember that the goal is not just to have that feeling. There is some transformative work that should happen for the self, otherwise there is the danger of becoming addicted to the spiritual high of trance, which I believe can be counterproductive.

I know exactly what you at talking about. I, too, have experienced this estatic joy in my spirit when drawing near to God. The tongues thing is sporatic, it just comes out. Maybe it's tongues, maybe it's not. I have no idea if I'm saying anything intelligable or not. Frankly, I don't care. Nor do I flaunt it (For one, I don't think the Baptist congregation of the church I attend would share in my excitement). I don't even speak it in front of my kids or wife. It is something that happens when I'm alone with God, like in my car or a quiet place. The tongues is not something I seek, but rather I seek a sense of closeness to God. The tongues seems to be just a byproduct of my praise and worship to God. Romans 8:26-27 tells us, "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

I'd like to think that that is the Spirit of God helping me to pray for things I'm unaware. And I agree, path of one, that whatever it is that we do in regard to this ought to be transformative. Not just some spiritual cocktail to keep us drunk in the Spirit. I've seen altar calls where people keep coming back week after week with the same kind of problems. If there is no permanent change in the heart, then whatever one might think to gain through tongues is of naught.
 
This is in response to the posts of Dondi and path of one, where they write about experiencing "tongues in the charismatic ... sense"

I know that what I am going to write might cause offense to some people. I want to make it clear that this is not my intention. The truth is that I am sceptical that such things are spiritual. I want to explain my scepticism and will wait for your replies that I might better understand.

Back in England a few years ago, I went with my brother and father to watch Liverpool play, I think West Ham (football/soccer). They are both big Liverpool fans, my brother especially. When Liverpool scored everyone jumped up shouting and cheering, I looked around at my brother. He was standing there head back, hands up in the air, kinda like people do in charismatic churches. Not only that but his eyes were closed and he was "speaking in tongues". Everything coming out of his mouth was complete gibberish. I'm sure what he was saying made sense to him, and I know exactly what he was doing, he was singing the praises of Liverpool football club. He was carried away by the group dynamic, his need to feel this emotion, this love for something, this union with something.

I have always felt, but would now genuinely welcome contrary views, that speaking in tongues, in the "charismatic sense", is something very similar to this.
 
cavalier said:
I have always felt, but would now genuinely welcome contrary views, that speaking in tongues, in the "charismatic sense", is something very similar to this.

Cavalier, I consider myself a disinterested third party in this situation, or an outsider looking, because I have never experienced speaking in tongues, nor have I ever seen or heard it except on movies. Like you, I have been very skeptical of it. However, the things Path of One says and what you say of your brother make me a believer that it can happen in a very genuine sense. I suspect that it is not necessarily genuine but that it can be for certain individuals under certain conditions or in situations.

I can also see why you think some people might be offended when you suggest that what your brother was doing is the same thing charismatic Christians do. They, esp. those who cannot do the genuine thing, would not want their "gifts" to be mixed up with something "profane" like sports. But, from a theoretical perspective of one who has a strong tendency to look for underlying patterns of thought or behaviour, it looks for all the world like the root of glossallalia (speaking in tongues) is being connected on the spiritual level to something larger and invisible than the human self. I know a person who did her PhD dissertation on the topic. I might forward your post to her and ask for an opinion.
 
cavalier said:
This is in response to the posts of Dondi and path of one, where they write about experiencing "tongues in the charismatic ... sense"

I know that what I am going to write might cause offense to some people. I want to make it clear that this is not my intention. The truth is that I am sceptical that such things are spiritual. I want to explain my scepticism and will wait for your replies that I might better understand.

Back in England a few years ago, I went with my brother and father to watch Liverpool play, I think West Ham (football/soccer). They are both big Liverpool fans, my brother especially. When Liverpool scored everyone jumped up shouting and cheering, I looked around at my brother. He was standing there head back, hands up in the air, kinda like people do in charismatic churches. Not only that but his eyes were closed and he was "speaking in tongues". Everything coming out of his mouth was complete gibberish. I'm sure what he was saying made sense to him, and I know exactly what he was doing, he was singing the praises of Liverpool football club. He was carried away by the group dynamic, his need to feel this emotion, this love for something, this union with something.

I have always felt, but would now genuinely welcome contrary views, that speaking in tongues, in the "charismatic sense", is something very similar to this.

Is your brother a Christian? But this need to feel this emotion, to love something, thats exactly what I'm talking about. It like trying to express something that cannot be put into words that can be understood. It happens when I'm feeling especially the joy of the Lord.

Now, is there a secular coorelation to this? I dunno. But I don't put much stock in the experience of tongues nor is it a confirmation of God in my life, for the measure I value of the Spirit's change is what kind of life I'm leading that has resulted from my relationship with God. We shall know them by their fruits.
 
Dondi said:
Is your brother a Christian? But this need to feel this emotion, to love something, thats exactly what I'm talking about. It like trying to express something that cannot be put into words that can be understood. It happens when I'm feeling especially the joy of the Lord.

Now, is there a secular coorelation to this? I dunno. But I don't put much stock in the experience of tongues nor is it a confirmation of God in my life, for the measure I value of the Spirit's change is what kind of life I'm leading that has resulted from my relationship with God. We shall know them by their fruits.

Dondi, in order to accept this testimony of your experience of the joy of the Lord, and the fruits of being in the Lord, etc. we would have to know for a fact that God exists. We cannot prove or disprove the existence of God but we can prove or disprove the dynamics of phenomenon produced by large groups. We can also prove or disprove human emotion and what causes it. (I'm a bit out of my depths here because I have not studied pscyhology or sociology but I have read various articles on this topic.) I think we can also prove or disprove phenomenon derived from religious belief. But the actual existence of God or an extra-terrestial deity of whatever sort cannot be proved or disproved. For this reason, it seems to me that we cannot make claims for speaking in tongues being the exclusive domain of Christianity. However, I have absolutely no background knowledge on this topic. I sent Cav's post to the person I mentioned above. It remains to be seen whether she is still at that email address and whether she has time to respond.
 
Dondi said:
Hope this doesn't get too off topic, but the first time I ever heard the word "empath' was on a Star Trek episode entitled, appropriately enough, "The Empath". It was about a mute woman from a race of beings who had the ability to physically heal people by the touch, but by doing so they takes on the sickness or injury of the person she is trying to heal. But her problem was whether or not she was willing to use her gift unselfishly. The aliens who were conducting experiments with her explained that if her planet was to survive, she must be willing to sacrifice herself fully, even if it means she would die in the process. Quite an interesting episode.

But that brings up the point about using our gifts for the betterment of others. Using gifts in an unselfish way. While we should desire the best gifts, we ought to do so not for the sake of gaining the gift itself, but to give of our selfs service to others. Remember what Paul said about speaking the tongues of angels or prophesying. Without love, it is nothing (I Cor 13-1-3).

I've been around some Pentacostal/Charismatic circles where to service was just a wave of confusion, everyone babbling tongues and seemlingly little order. I don't see the benefit of this, especially for the visitors. I tend to think that this sort of thing would drive them away.

That said, I still allow for the possibility for the supernatural Gifts of the Spirit to operate today. I would think it would be more effective on a one on one basis.



Empathy n. is one's ability to recognize and understand the emotion of another. As the states of mind, beliefs, and desires of others are intertwined with their emotions, one with empathy for another may often be able to more effectively divine another's modes of thought and mood. Empathy is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or experiencing the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself, a sort of emotional resonance.

Empath n.

A person who can psychically tune in to the emotional experience of a person, place or animal.
site.lunamyst.com/filelocker/glossary.html
[SIZE=-1]A person who is physically sensitive to the energy around them. It is believed that these people are able to literally feel the energy surrounding them causing physical ailments. Depending on the type of energy an Empath or Sensitive can tell what the intentions of the spirit is
www.geocities.com/longislandparanormalsociety/Definitions_Psychics.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Empathy is the recognition and understanding of the states of mind, including beliefs, desires and particularly emotions of others. This concept is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes". However, this metaphor is ambiguous concerning whether one imagines actually "being" the other person, with all their beliefs and character traits, or simply being in their situation (such as being the prime minister). ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empath

Discernment n.

Discernment is a process of prayerful reflection which leads a person or community to understanding of God's call at a given time or in particular circumstances of life. It involves listening to God in all the ways God communicates with us: in prayer, in the scriptures, through the Church and the world, in personal experience, and in other people.
www.vocations.ca/What_is_a_vocation/common_terms.php
[SIZE=-1]is the heightened ability to read or hear a teaching, to encounter a problem, or to consider a proposed course of action, and then determine whether the source behind the teaching, problem, or action is divine, merely human, or satanic. This will be a much needed gift near the End of the Age. [Bible Study on Discernment.]
www.acts17-11.com/dictionary_gifts.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](Fr. Prediliction) - is the twelfth sense which enables you to avoid all things antipathetic and to encounter everything sympathetic. This sense results in the evolution of Intuition.
www.kheper.net/topics/Theon/glossary.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]A spiritual gift through which one discerns the inner states. It is not a sharpness of mind but the energy of the grace of God. It is a gift which pertains to the pure nous. It is mainly the ability to distinguish between uncreated and created things; between the energy of God and the energy of the devil but also between the energies of God and the psychophysical energies of man. Thus, one distinguishes emotional states from spiritual experiences.
www.pelagia.org/htm/b01.en.a_night_in_the_desert_of_the_holy_mountain.09.htm

In short, one is natural to man's senses, only highly developed. The other is "gifted" to one who otherwise does not have the natural abibity developed.

Many "empaths" use their talent for reasons other than helping others, only that does not diminish their abilities, but it doesn't mean they are God guided either.

The other, being a "God's gift" is to be used to help others, and if abused, can literally dis-appear in an instant.

Thought this might help.

v/r

Q[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
 
Edited- people posted while I was writing. I'm responding to the suggestion that ecstasy can be a result of secular experiences. I think Dondi's response was good, but speaking in tongues as a result of ecstasy is certainly not limited to Christianity. It's actually pretty common cross-culturally.

I don't find the suggestion offensive at all. I think it is very much a result of overwhelming connectedness, a very passionate emotion, for me. When brought about spontaneously, it is not always due to "religious" or even specifically spiritual events/triggers. It may be helpful for me to explain that for me, everything is spiritual. When I'm training my horses, hiking, or other athletic endeavors, I am pushing the limits of my body, I am connecting to the living beings around me, I am aware of the joys of being incarnated in such an amazing form that I can feel wind, rain, etc. The feeling of ecstasy (and associated linguistic stuff) can also arise for me in becoming lost in art or music, even completely secular stuff- because nothing is completely secular for me. A beautiful Monet, the energy of a room full of people listening to rock music... it is all part of the joy of living, the human experience, the energy of being fully alive.

So I suppose I would completely agree that feelings of ecstasy can be brought about by non-spiritual things as well. This is most obvious for people who trance through drugs without appropriate shamanic spiritual guidance. I've never done any sort of drugs myself (in fact, I'm scared by them- the last thing I need is to open up the gateways more! LOL!), but I've talked to plenty of anthropologists who have tried this or that. Many are atheists and still had amazing, mind-opening experiences, a sense of connectedness with everything, joy, love, etc. I think it is a product not of spirituality necessarily, but rather of altering the consciousness, of pushing it outside its normal waking state.

What makes it spiritual is how we use and interpret the experience.

My current theory, based on my experiences:
Trance and ecstasy are just like dreaming... it's just another psychological state. But dreams can be any number of things... expressions of our deepest desires and fears, a jumble of mundane stuff we need to get done (going to get groceries, finishing that project at work)... or incredibly deep and transformative spiritual experiences, visions that impact us for the rest of our lives. Likewise, trance/ecstasy can range from a simple emotional high, disconnected from spirituality, to a profoundly transformative experience.
 
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RubySera_Martin said:
Dondi, in order to accept this testimony of your experience of the joy of the Lord, and the fruits of being in the Lord, etc. we would have to know for a fact that God exists. We cannot prove or disprove the existence of God but we can prove or disprove the dynamics of phenomenon produced by large groups. We can also prove or disprove human emotion and what causes it. (I'm a bit out of my depths here because I have not studied pscyhology or sociology but I have read various articles on this topic.) I think we can also prove or disprove phenomenon derived from religious belief. But the actual existence of God or an extra-terrestial deity of whatever sort cannot be proved or disproved. For this reason, it seems to me that we cannot make claims for speaking in tongues being the exclusive domain of Christianity. However, I have absolutely no background knowledge on this topic. I sent Cav's post to the person I mentioned above. It remains to be seen whether she is still at that email address and whether she has time to respond.

Which is why I said I don't put too much stock in tongues, I look for changes in my life to confirm my relationship to God. And my relationship to God is not something that I can prove to you nor anyone else, it just is. My own confirmation of God comes from the fact that my life has changed for the better as I've learned to trust in Something I cannot prove objectively. Knowing the Divine is a purely subjective experience based on faith. It's knowing a sense of Love I've never experienced before, and finding an ability to love as a result. If God doesn't exist, then I've lost nothing by believing, rather I've gained more than I'd hoped for, for I've learned to love. The testamony of a changed life, therefore is all I have to offer.
 
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