so when a saved person goes to heaven

I feel sad for you mee. If you are satisfied with living without God that shows me that you have no idea of who God is. Moreover, it shows me that you dont even want God.

To the Chrisitans on board, know that your hope and mine is that we will one day be with God and see Him as He is and know Him. He will be our God and we His people!
 
moseslmpg said:
Why did you say maranatha?
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Maran atha It means "the Lord has come", or "the Lord will come", or more likely "Come, Lord!" There is a strong similarity here to the final words of the Book of Revelation: "Amen; come, Lord Jesus" (Rev 22:20) which may very likely have also originally been in Aramaic.
 
mee said:
yes my eyes have been well and truely opened to who is faithful and who is not faithful.
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So what does the faithful look like? I think children have their eyes open better than adults when it comes to seeing who a faithful servant is.

InLove said:
Like I said, maybe I am a little confused as to what you are trying to say, since I am not understanding the relevence of the Scriptures you have quoted.
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I was drawing some humor from wil's post. I recall being with a group of people on a remote skiing trip where there was a jointly maintained toilet for a time. Someone had placed a sign above it: "I Aim to please! You Aim too... please?" Maybe it is the Law of neighborly Love in disguise: "Aim to please others as they aim to please you." But in my opinion the rule has also been re-written to reveal the way Faith works: "I will do for you as you will. Will you do for me as I will?"... or more simply as: "I am willing to please you. Will you try to please me?" Can anyone see the 'believe' and 'trust' in it?

Of course, this toilet would also clog easily. It is no fun using a toilet and then learning afterwards that it was already clogged by the person prior. If a person were attentive then they could first check to see if the water level was odd, revealing that it needed a good plunging. But then people forget to look when relief is on their mind. Potentially a kind person would have to plunge twice, in which case said person might be compelled to announce to everyone their kindness and instill guilt on the unjust slobs. Whether to plunge before or after... the evil toilet does not care. I guess I prefer that people plunge after. The rule "Plunge for others as you would have them plunge for you" applies one way or another, but some people see it differently, and some people also specialize. Men for instance on this trip solved 2/3 of their problem by finding trees outside to water. With specialization it gets complicated though, so I refer back to Faith as I stated it. For example it could be stated as, "I will plunge for you as you will. Will you please keep the car full of gas as I will?" Some people are not going to be faithful though... you plunge your heart out just to please them and then go to get in the car and find that it is always dead empty. You see, some women just don't like to get out of their warm car and pump gas when it is freezing outside. Which is fine but then a person always has to plan on filling the tank before going anywhere, rather than being in a state of readiness. It is really just the toilet problem in disguise, and like the evil toilet... the evil gas tank does not care. Some people specialize... "tell me when the tank needs filling and I'll go do it while you work on dinner."

The rule, "Forgive others as you wish others to forgive you" is always appropriate, considering forgiveness as part of Love. But I was responding to wil's message about respecting other people's beliefs, and yet wanting to also plunge that belief into the minds of others. How does a person lovingly plunge their beliefs into the minds of others? Faith comes to my mind: "I am willing to please you. Are you willing to please me?"... which I read as: "I am willing to place Faith in you. Are you willing to place Faith in me?" A person has lots of room to struggle with that. Some people are unfaithful, and some people you can adapt, forgive, and bend over backwards for, but that will only make them worse in the process. I don't think I can teach anything by being a servant to a person's evil. Do any of you? So, I apply this law: "Place faith in the faithful. Do not place faith in the evil of others." Substituting, the rule could read, "I wish to please you because you wish to please others." Or, "I will place Faith in you because you will place Faith in others." Substituting back into the Golden rule it could read: "I will place Faith in you because you place Faith in people... as I wish you to place Faith in me because I place Faith in people."

I realize of course that I am talking about relationships between people. How different is the one with God (swt)? I tend to believe they provide an example of how to have a relationship with God (swt), just as Jesus provided many examples.

So, I was pointing out that Jesus (pbuh) was a selective servant, meaning he adhered to some laws of Faith. Reading the scripture, he did NOT walk up to people and say, "You are blind. I'm going to heal you." He did NOT answer every request. He did NOT do miraculous things for everyone that wanted to see. He was a selective servant. He even said it... those who do per his commandments are those that he and his Father will come to and make a home with.
 
Hey cyberpi--

Thanks for the explanation. I thought I was really getting "thick" for a while there. Now I understand.

I am reminded of an old Christian song (imagine that--me being reminded of a song :)) with the lyrics, "Let others see Jesus in you". And even though I probably have a more "western" take on the greeting "Namaste" than some, I still like the meaning I glean from it--something like "I bow to the divine in you".

And you are right--Jesus did not grant every request, but responded in each situation according to the faith of the person asking. I'd venture to say that there was a sense of grace about Him that attracted faith (and sometimes jealousy and contempt).

Hehe--I'll bet Jesus would make sure the gas tank was full and ready to go at all times! ;)

InPeace,
InLove
 
Terrence said:
I feel sad for you mee. If you are satisfied with living without God that shows me that you have no idea of who God is. Moreover, it shows me that you dont even want God.

To the Chrisitans on board, know that your hope and mine is that we will one day be with God and see Him as He is and know Him. He will be our God and we His people!
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dont feel sad for me ;) the bible has sayings of everlasting life .
"I am the way and the truth and the life."—JOHN 14:6.
Jesus told the initial members of this "little flock" of Kingdom heirs that they would "sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel." (Luke 12:32; 22:30) This implies that others will receive everlasting life on earth as subjects of his Kingdom. While these "other sheep" are not given immortality, they do receive "everlasting life." (John 10:16; Matthew 25:46) Everlasting life is thus the hope of all Christians. It is no fantasy but something solemnly promised by "God, who cannot lie," and paid for with the precious blood of Jesus.—Titus 1:2.
 
mee said:
dont feel sad for me ;) the bible has sayings of everlasting life .
"I am the way and the truth and the life."—JOHN 14:6.
Jesus told the initial members of this "little flock" of Kingdom heirs that they would "sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel." (Luke 12:32; 22:30) This implies that others will receive everlasting life on earth as subjects of his Kingdom. While these "other sheep" are not given immortality, they do receive "everlasting life." (John 10:16; Matthew 25:46) Everlasting life is thus the hope of all Christians. It is no fantasy but something solemnly promised by "God, who cannot lie," and paid for with the precious blood of Jesus.—Titus 1:2.
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Jesus was not speaking to JW's He was speaking to his disciples who called Him Lord God.

Romans 9:5 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
 
mee said:
...Jesus told the initial members of this "little flock" of Kingdom heirs that they would "sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel." (Luke 12:32; 22:30) This implies that others will receive everlasting life on earth as subjects of his Kingdom. While these "other sheep" are not given immortality, they do receive "everlasting life." (John 10:16; Matthew 25:46) Everlasting life is thus the hope of all Christians. It is no fantasy but something solemnly promised by "God, who cannot lie," and paid for with the precious blood of Jesus.—Titus 1:2.
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Now why would a great big God of the entire universe be satisfied with a tiny little flock in heaven while everyone else was stuck in second class surroundings...:rolleyes: :)
 
Faithfulservant said:
I take my bible literally..its 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel.. they will be virgins and take up the sword of truth....:) They will ALL be Jewish.
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Hi Faithfulservant.:)

I don't want to detract from your conversation with mee and others, but I have a question. I tend to read the 144,000 as you do--Jewish, possibly from the 12 tribes ( I have also heard another viewpoint--that they would all be Levites, which I don't really understand. ) Anyway, my question is this: I have not heard much about them being virgins. Do you mean in a physical sense? Or spiritual virgins, having rejected the ways of Babylon? Please elaborate if you like (I'm not looking for argument--just curious :) ).

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove said:
Hi Faithfulservant.:)

I don't want to detract from your conversation with mee and others, but I have a question. I tend to read the 144,000 as you do--Jewish, possibly from the 12 tribes ( I have also heard another viewpoint--that they would all be Levites, which I don't really understand. ) Anyway, my question is this: I have not heard much about them being virgins. Do you mean in a physical sense? Or spiritual virgins, having rejected the ways of Babylon? Please elaborate if you like (I'm not looking for argument--just curious :) ).

InPeace,
InLove
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Rev 14:4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Hi Inlove :) I take this as meaning what it says.. free from sexual sin.
The levites are those that follow levitical law so Im going to take a guess that they might have been orthodox students who received Christ.. I dont know.. it will be an interesting thing to find out.

Btw Im really sorry if I come off as being that Im ever arguing.. Im not wise in the ways of diplomacy I guess..
 
Faithfulservant said:
Rev 14:4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Hi Inlove :) I take this as meaning what it says.. free from sexual sin.
The levites are those that follow levitical law so Im going to take a guess that they might have been orthodox students who received Christ.. I dont know.. it will be an interesting thing to find out.

Btw Im really sorry if I come off as being that Im ever arguing.. Im not wise in the ways of diplomacy I guess..
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Hi Faithful--Thanks! Rev. 14:4 is the verse that I have seen at the center of this issue. I agree with you that it is going to be interesting--LOL--thus the name of the book.:)

And I wasn't worried that you were going to be argumentative about it. I just wanted you to know that I wasn't picking on you.:D I hope (and I am pretty sure) you will appreciate that I could have spent hours surfing the Net about the subject, but I figured I'd just ask you first, because I really was looking for your perspective on this.;)

As Always--
InPeace,
InChrist
InLove
 
I love you :)

I see in that verse now that I read it again that they will be the firstfruits and redeemed... That opens up implications that maybe they are made pure in body and soul? Interesting huh. I always feel safe taking the bible literally in all things.. I would rather take it literally and be proved wrong than take it metaphorically and be proved wrong... Erring on the safe side you know? hehe
 
I love you too.:)

(Let me know anytime if you come up with more thoughts on the subject. I find it fascinating.)

InPeace,
InLove
 
Quahom1 said:
Now why would a great big God of the entire universe be satisfied with a tiny little flock in heaven while everyone else was stuck in second class surroundings...:rolleyes: :)
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Jehovahs wonderful paradise on earth will be a most wonderful thing . man was made for the earth and that is what man was created for . i think to say to God that the planet is second-class is an insult to him. i am looking foreward to everlasting life on a paradise earth ,
What magnificent things will appear under the sun at that time! The spiritual paradise will expand into a literal paradise, in fulfillment of Jehovah’s original purpose toward this earth. Our God tells us that ‘the earth is his footstool,’ a sanctuary where he should be worshiped, and he also declares: "I shall glorify the very place of my feet." (Isaiah 66:1; 60:13) So here under the sun, earth is to be made a glorious paradise, a garden of delight, in which a perfect, peaceful, and united mankind will forever praise their God and Creator. "Faithful and true" are Jehovah’s thrilling words of promise: "Look! I am making all things new"! (Revelation 21:5) And in the eternity ahead, what marvelous new creations may our loving God yet bring forth down here under the sun to delight his human family!
 
The great crowd in revelation 7;9-10are not seen standing ‘with the Lamb’ as are the 144,000, at Revelation 14:1, but are "before the Lamb." the "great crowd" is separate and distinct from the 144,000 sealed ones.
 
mee said:
Jehovahs wonderful paradise on earth will be a most wonderful thing . man was made for the earth and that is what man was created for . i think to say to God that the planet is second-class is an insult to him. i am looking foreward to everlasting life on a paradise earth ,
What magnificent things will appear under the sun at that time! The spiritual paradise will expand into a literal paradise, in fulfillment of Jehovah’s original purpose toward this earth. Our God tells us that ‘the earth is his footstool,’ a sanctuary where he should be worshiped, and he also declares: "I shall glorify the very place of my feet." (Isaiah 66:1; 60:13) So here under the sun, earth is to be made a glorious paradise, a garden of delight, in which a perfect, peaceful, and united mankind will forever praise their God and Creator. "Faithful and true" are Jehovah’s thrilling words of promise: "Look! I am making all things new"! (Revelation 21:5) And in the eternity ahead, what marvelous new creations may our loving God yet bring forth down here under the sun to delight his human family!
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Well, it seems to me that to claim that only 144000 hit the jackpot and get into the ultimate place while everyone else who laid faith on Christ only get second best is an insult. And it isn't God doing the insulting...
 
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

Hmm thats easy to read 12000 from 12 tribes of Israel. You can not take half the verse literally and half the verse spiritually. If it is literally 144,000 which the watchtower agrees with it has to be literally jews.

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Try reading on down a couple verses....that multitude has nothing to do with us either.

Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" 14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.

Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

Wow look Mee 144,000 Jewish men during the tribulation standing on Earth with Jesus. Wait doesn't the WT say Jesus does not return?

wait maybe rev 19:1 says it best
Rev 19:1 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God!

A great multitude in heaven right from the Bible.
 
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