Why do people try to change Christianity?

I would also add that I think contextually Matthew 24 and/or Mark 13 are not exhortations on how christians ought to live their daily lives... IMHO :)

It appears that these versus are relating to a specific group of followers... as it was spoken only to the disciples... and it also appears to be a message for a particular era... "this generation"...

That being said... It doesnt mean there is nothing to learn from these versus... I think the exhortation to Watch ( to live, or be alive and awake, and to use your mind and faculties ) is always something we should do... :)

In Christianity you have a goal. Messages behind Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 24 have to do with staying true to that goal and not being distracted from it.:) Think of yourself as an athlete striving towards a finish line.

Those who have a clear idea of what the goal is (Matthew 16:18) are less likely to be led astray (the strong ones) than those who don't know (the weak ones) what the goal is (Matthew 24) -- hence the warnings.

I won't be any more specific than speaking of "the goal." I'll keep things vague here. I'll keep things in code-words and buzz-words for now. Make of it what you will, with a touch of health skepticism.:)
 
In Christianity you have a goal. Messages behind Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 24 have to do with staying true to that goal and not being distracted from it.:) Think of yourself as an athlete striving towards a finish line.

Those who have a clear idea of what the goal is (Matthew 16:18) are less likely to be led astray (the strong ones) than those who don't know (the weak ones) what the goal is (Matthew 24) -- hence the warnings.

I won't be any more specific than speaking of "the goal." I'll keep things vague here. I'll keep things in code-words and buzz-words for now. Make of it what you will, with a touch of health skepticism.:)

Umm... I guess I am not really following the logic here... if Matthew 24 was for the weak ones... why was it ( according to both the book of Mark and Matthew ) only spoken to the disciples??

It seems to me that the disciples here wanted some more details about the coming trials and they asked jesus... and he told them... it all seems pretty straight forward... even if the english translation... :)
 
I won't be any more specific than speaking of "the goal." I'll keep things vague here. I'll keep things in code-words and buzz-words for now. Make of it what you will, with a touch of healthy skepticism.:)

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Phillipians 3:12-14

No skepticism required.
 
It appears that these versus are relating to a specific group of followers... as it was spoken only to the disciples... and it also appears to be a message for a particular era... "this generation"...

Not sure I follow... There IS the great commission. "...make disciples of all the earth."

"This generation" is until the 2nd Coming of Christ.
 
Not sure I follow... There IS the great commission. "...make disciples of all the earth."

"This generation" is until the 2nd Coming of Christ.

Matthew 24 is not the great commission....

And "This Generation" is not until the second coming of Christ according to the majority of theologians...
 
Don't you read the bible as a whole? You cannot pick out one verse and run with it.

Like I said, not sure I followed... I'll get back to you.

Ok... let me back up :)

You responded to this earlier statement of mine...

It appears that these versus are relating to a specific group of followers... as it was spoken only to the disciples... and it also appears to be a message for a particular era... "this generation"...

I agree that there is something called the great commission... I was just saying that Matthew 24 was not the Great Commission...

And I think we always need to look at things in context... not just in the context of the other things said around it... but also who it was spoken to... when it was spoken... why it was spoken... and who was speaking...

I am not sure what verses I am running with?? I was just not understanding Saltmeister's connection between Matthew 24 and "the weak ones"...


 
I am not sure what verses I am running with?? I was just not understanding Saltmeister's connection between Matthew 24 and "the weak ones"...

Okay... I'm not sure either. I do have my favorite theologians explanation of Matthew 24:34 and we were both wrong.
foretells that Judah shall never cease to exist as a distinct people, so long as this world shall endure. Men of the world scheme and plan for generation upon generation here, but they plan not with reference to the overwhelming, approaching, and most certain event of Christ’s second coming, which shall do away every human scheme, and set aside for ever all that God forbids.

Matthew Henry
 
Matthew 24:34
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
Which means "Life" as we know it, will not change, until all prophesies take place. Time at this point, is not an issue, to God. Human hearts are...
 
Umm... I guess I am not really following the logic here... if Matthew 24 was for the weak ones... why was it ( according to both the book of Mark and Matthew ) only spoken to the disciples??

It seems to me that the disciples here wanted some more details about the coming trials and they asked jesus... and he told them... it all seems pretty straight forward... even if the english translation... :)

Perhaps what we could say is that they were "weak at the time" but grew stronger after Jesus died and rose again because they then had a renewed sense of purpose.:)

I believe what was said in Matthew 24 applies for all of us in our spiritual journey as Christians. In today's world, this message would be particularly relevant for all new and beginning Christians. The "trials and tribulations" are things we'd all have to face somehow, but what it says about "false prophets" I believe is about us not having a sense of purpose, or at least "the right sense of purpose." Over time, as we mature in our journey, we get an idea of what this sense of purpose might be, and become more resistant to "deviations" from that purpose. The message of "false prophets" becomes less relevant as our understanding grows about the purpose of Christianity.

The trouble is, "over-resistance" can lead to "close-mindedness" to the "wrong things." A possible precursor to judgmentalism and "puffed up" feelings of superiority.:confused: :eek: We start growing planks in our eyes. We can suppress one "evil" but create another.

Over-resistance -- that is, extreme close-mindedness is just as bad as extreme open-mindedness. The extremely open-minded, on one hand, embrace everything, while the extremely close-minded close their minds to valuable experiences. The extremely close-minded can be "so devout" that they deem as "un-Christian" or "non-Christian" things that were done by someone genuinely Christian.

Their lives are manipulated by rules that they make for themselves. The extremely close-minded, I believe, might actually be the people most vulnerable to "the Great Taboos . . . " (so to speak) as they are so thoroughly manipulated they'd be easily manipulated if there was someone who knew how to poke-and-prod and twist their rigorous belief system.:confused: :eek: They could even be fooled into thinking "lying," "murder" and that certain "sexual sins" are ok -- even healthy and good!!! The result is rather like what Paul talks about in 1 Timothy 4:2 -- their "consciences are seared as if with a hot iron." They are so closed-minded about right and wrong that they no longer understand the difference between right and wrong. A group so devout at "being right" could be manipulated into "being in the wrong."

Ever heard of the "Children of God?" It was taught by a guy named David Berg who said "flirty fishing" was ok. "Flirty fishing" is a way of achieving conversions by bribing people with sex. Sounds Christian and godly from one perspective . . . Sex to bring people to God!!! Wow. That must be good. Too good to be true. Fantastic and sensational. And Jesus did say whoever is not for me must be against me.:) :D (Is that ironic?)

It's not necessarily "liberal Christians" that are led to "false concepts." Actually, the ones who are most devout often set themselves up to be "led astray" because they allow others to manipulate them. Trying too hard to be Christian can sometimes lead to something "non-Christian.":) :eek: :D

There is health devotion and healthy skepticism. There is also over-devotion and over-skepticism (extreme closed-mindedness). Then there is fence-sitting, which can be either legal or illegal.
 
Yes discerment helps... but IMHO there are just some things we will not know...

It gets better with knowledge, education and particularly -- experience. Open-mindedness to carefully chosen concepts and closed-mindedness to other carefully chosen concepts (healthy skepticism). You can't learn healthy skepticism if you're not open-minded. But you'd be out of line if "anything goes."

Discernment could be confused with "picking and choosing.":) :D

Btw, I like your avatar. It makes me laugh to see a picture of Jesus laughing.
 
Perhaps what we could say is that they were "weak at the time" but grew stronger after Jesus died and rose again because they then had a renewed sense of purpose.:)

I believe what was said in Matthew 24 applies for all of us in our spiritual journey as Christians. In today's world, this message would be particularly relevant for all new and beginning Christians. The "trials and tribulations" are things we'd all have to face somehow, but what it says about "false prophets" I believe is about us not having a sense of purpose, or at least "the right sense of purpose." Over time, as we mature in our journey, we get an idea of what this sense of purpose might be, and become more resistant to "deviations" from that purpose. The message of "false prophets" becomes less relevant as our understanding grows about the purpose of Christianity.

The trouble is, "over-resistance" can lead to "close-mindedness" to the "wrong things." A possible precursor to judgmentalism and "puffed up" feelings of superiority.:confused: :eek: We start growing planks in our eyes. We can suppress one "evil" but create another.

Over-resistance -- that is, extreme close-mindedness is just as bad as extreme open-mindedness. The extremely open-minded, on one hand, embrace everything, while the extremely close-minded close their minds to valuable experiences. The extremely close-minded can be "so devout" that they deem as "un-Christian" or "non-Christian" things that were done by someone genuinely Christian.

Their lives are manipulated by rules that they make for themselves. The extremely close-minded, I believe, might actually be the people most vulnerable to "the Great Taboos . . . " (so to speak) as they are so thoroughly manipulated they'd be easily manipulated if there was someone who knew how to poke-and-prod and twist their rigorous belief system.:confused: :eek: They could even be fooled into thinking "lying," "murder" and that certain "sexual sins" are ok -- even healthy and good!!! The result is rather like what Paul talks about in 1 Timothy 4:2 -- their "consciences are seared as if with a hot iron." They are so closed-minded about right and wrong that they no longer understand the difference between right and wrong. A group so devout at "being right" could be manipulated into "being in the wrong."

Ever heard of the "Children of God?" It was taught by a guy named David Berg who said "flirty fishing" was ok. "Flirty fishing" is a way of achieving conversions by bribing people with sex. Sounds Christian and godly from one perspective . . . Sex to bring people to God!!! Wow. That must be good. Too good to be true. Fantastic and sensational. And Jesus did say whoever is not for me must be against me.:) :D (Is that ironic?)

It's not necessarily "liberal Christians" that are led to "false concepts." Actually, the ones who are most devout often set themselves up to be "led astray" because they allow others to manipulate them. Trying too hard to be Christian can sometimes lead to something "non-Christian.":) :eek: :D

There is health devotion and healthy skepticism. There is also over-devotion and over-skepticism (extreme closed-mindedness). Then there is fence-sitting, which can be either legal or illegal.

Very nice... :)
 
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