wy do people think jesus was god

China Cat Sunflower said:
Well, we're already dividing God up into three co-equal parts, so I'm asking what the practical ramifications of having Jesus be a slightly junior partner would be. Can Jesus not save unless he's fully co-equal? Why? Or, from the non-trinitarian perspective, is there a practical difference in how salvation happens if Jesus is a created being rather than a co-equal? Does salvation itself collapse one way or the other? Why?

Chris
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There is one God and one nature.The Trinity is about the three persons in one nature. There aren't any "slightly juniors". The father, son, and holy spirit are all God. I do not know anymore than that. I do know without a doubt that all three are in my heart and my salvation is secure.
Salvation comes through belief in Jesus Christ. It doesn't collapse.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
if jesus was a created being then he would be apart from god, but because jesus was the word of god and god, and because only god can forgive and save and give life which jesus does as well, he is god.
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pattimax said:
There is one God and one nature.The Trinity is about the three persons in one nature. There aren't any "slightly juniors". The father, son, and holy spirit are all God. I do not know anymore than that. I do know without a doubt that all three are in my heart and my salvation is secure.
Salvation comes through belief in Jesus Christ. It doesn't collapse.
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O.K., excellent! So, from the trinitarian perspective it's incomprehensible that Jesus can occupy a lesser station than God the Father because only God can offer salvation, and any agency of that salvation must co-equate with God. Is that right? So, what's the non-trinitarian rebuttal to that? Where is the hole in that argument? What is it about the nature of salvation that trinitarianism doesn't comprehend? And specifically, why is it that Jesus need not be co-equal with God to accomplish the ends of salvation?

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
O.K., excellent! So, from the trinitarian perspective it's incomprehensible that Jesus can occupy a lesser station than God the Father because only God can offer salvation, and any agency of that salvation must co-equate with God. Is that right? So, what's the non-trinitarian rebuttal to that? Where is the hole in that argument? What is it about the nature of salvation that trinitarianism doesn't comprehend? And specifically, why is it that Jesus need not be co-equal with God to accomplish the ends of salvation?

Chris
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When Jesus is not the focal point of Salvation, then the argument can be had that His presence is not required for salvation. Indeed the Jehovah's Witnesses concur that Jesus is important, but not really required, as the Father makes all the decisions.

Mormons consider Jesus a more advance version of us.

Some Catholics can get caught up in the 'diefication' of Mary, and forget the facts of salvation.

Some Christians forget the trinity all together, and focus on Jesus alone (that isn't right either, in my opinion).

Others think that Jesus is within, and hence we are our own salvation.

Others still consider Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit less than the ultimate "God", that will have nothing to do with such as man, hence the "underlings" take care of business.

Anyway it is sliced, it seems to come up short when one or two "legs" of the Trinity are removed...

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
When Jesus is not the focal point of Salvation, then the argument can be had that His presence is not required for salvation. Indeed the Jehovah's Witnesses concur that Jesus is important, but not really required, as the Father makes all the decisions.
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That's one thing I want to find out about. What exactly is Jesus' job? From both perspectives, but I'm really interested in what our JW friends will say. What role does Jesus play in salvation from his front office, senior partner perspective on the Kingdom? How does that relate to his position as the Logos in the beginning? Has he been promoted to a new office in the new Kingdom? How do his present duties contrast to his old job, and how is that a function of the plan of salvation?


Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
That's one thing I want to find out about. What exactly is Jesus' job? From both perspectives, but I'm really interested in what our JW friends will say. What role does Jesus play in salvation from his front office, senior partner perspective on the Kingdom? How does that relate to his position as the Logos in the beginning? Has he been promoted to a new office in the new Kingdom? How do his present duties contrast to his old job, and how is that a function of the plan of salvation?


Chris
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there is no eternal salvation without jesus. it is god's holy law, not mine or anyone elses. god required a sacrifice, and the only way to reconcile man back to god was for god to send his son to be that sacrifice for all mankind so we might all be saved. jesus' job was to become that sin, die and resurrect for our salvation and defeat death because god loves us and wishes all of us to come to him.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
That's one thing I want to find out about. What exactly is Jesus' job? From both perspectives, but I'm really interested in what our JW friends will say. What role does Jesus play in salvation from his front office, senior partner perspective on the Kingdom? How does that relate to his position as the Logos in the beginning? Has he been promoted to a new office in the new Kingdom? How do his present duties contrast to his old job, and how is that a function of the plan of salvation?


Chris
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Chris,

I don't opine that Jesus has a "job", unless the salvation of Man is considered a "job" for God. The JW's perspective is quite well outlined in the thread Titled : http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/the-bible-from-a-jehovahs-3938.html

In fact the push by JWs currently is the concept of false religion (every "religion" but theirs).

That in and of itself should give you a heads up as to what Christians think. I am Catholic. Dor and FS, and Bandit, and Pattimax, and Blaze, and Juan and others are other than Catholic. But we are all Christian in the fact that we believe in Jesus as being God Almighty. And He saved us. And He wants to save all, but they have to accept His gift of salvation.

JWs do not think Jesus is God Almighty. Just a Mighty god... the rest of us consider that an insult to the "Creator of the Universe". It is also called polytheism, which Christianity is not about.

v/r

joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
JWs do not think Jesus is God Almighty. Just a Mighty god...

v/r

joshua
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yes that is correct , that is what the bible tells us .
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, MIGHTY GOD Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this. isaiah 9;6-7
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,​

You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83;18 Jehovah is the Almighty ,Jesus is a mighty one , and Jesus is the only- begotten son of God,as John 3;16 tells me
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
(Romans 8:32) He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things?​

(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him...........yes as the bible tells us all, Jesus is very important indeed.
 
pattimax said:
I am looking at the NWT and it refers to my Lord as a righteous sprout.
Where can I file a complaint?
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Jesus was called a Nazarene, a name apparently related to the Hebrew word used in Isaiah 11:1 for "sprout
The Hebrew word for "sprout" is ne´tser, and for "Nazarene" is Nots·ri´
And there must go forth a twig out of the stump of Jes´se; and out of his roots a sprout will be fruitful. isaiah 11;1
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Let me ask a serious question: What practical difference does it make if Jesus is a created divine being and God is the most high God, versus the trinitarian construct? What does it change in the overall scheme of salvation?

Like this: "Jesus has to be co-equal with the Father because...", or "Jesus cannot be co-equal with Jehovah because...". But not because "it says so", I'm interested in the actual mechanics of salvation. Anyone want to tackle that one?

Chris
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because mixing false with truth is not the truth ,and is not good in the eyes of the most high

A little leaven ferments the whole lump. Galations 5;9
 
So, pretty much it's because it's just inconceivable the other way, and /or because it says so. Got it.

Chris
 
pattimax said:
There is one God and one nature.The Trinity is about the three persons in one nature. There aren't any "slightly juniors". The father, son, and holy spirit are all God. I do not know anymore than that. I do know without a doubt that all three are in my heart and my salvation is secure.
Salvation comes through belief in Jesus Christ. It doesn't collapse.
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What do you call salvation... the division of the lambs and the goats?
 
Jesus possessed all of God's attributes. Jesus did the things God alone is able to do: Forgive sin, raise the dead, called himself the "I am." Not to mention, he jutaposed God's laws with His own ideals. Who does this guy think he is? According to scriptures, He's God. I want you guys to notice something. The first person a cult goes after is always Christ. They always try to attack the diety of Jesus, the God man. If you have the wrong Jesus, you trust in an idol and thus are not saved from the wrath that is to come. But, if you have the right Jesus, your sins are forgiven and His righteousness has been imputed to your account and your sins imputed to His body on the cross.
 
Silas said:
Jesus possessed all of God's attributes. Jesus did the things God alone is able to do: Forgive sin, raise the dead, called himself the "I am." Not to mention, he jutaposed God's laws with His own ideals. Who does this guy think he is? According to scriptures, He's God. I want you guys to notice something. The first person a cult goes after is always Christ. They always try to attack the diety of Jesus, the God man. If you have the wrong Jesus, you trust in an idol and thus are not saved from the wrath that is to come. But, if you have the right Jesus, your sins are forgiven and His righteousness has been imputed to your account and your sins imputed to His body on the cross.
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Uh-oh.

*ducks behind a couch whilst the fiery, flaming darts streak toward their target*

Duck, Silas, duck!
 
why do people think Jesus is God? because they listen to false religious leaders who teach falsehood not based on accurate knowledge of the bible . and many have been misled down the centuries:(
 
mee said:
why do people think Jesus is God? because they listen to false religious leaders who teach falsehood not based on accurate knowledge of the bible . and many have been misled down the centuries:(
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Direct hit!

All hands man their battle stations!
 
Let the Bible tell it. Who does the Bible say Jesus is? John says the word was God and became flesh. Cults say that he was only a "god," small "g." OK, we'll let that sit for awhile. From the time of Jesus' birth both people and angels worshipped Him. Thomas delcare "ho karious Mou Kai Hatho, Ho theos moi". Im sure I spelled that wrong, its been awhile since school. In anycase, he said..."My Lord and my God," and worshipped Him. Here's something odd though. Jesus never rebuked any of them. Interestingly enough, went tempted by Satan, Jesus tells him..."It is written that you shall only worship God." Hmmm? Jesus is being worshipped and telling and not saying, "Hey guys and angels, dont do that."

What else, lets see...Oh yeah...Jesus said to a man once..."Why do you call me good? There is none good, but one and that is God." Was Jesus saying that He was not God or good? According to scripture, He was perfect! Moreover, he's the crux of the issue, if He wasnt good, His sacrifice was of no avil and thus all people who are trusting in Him are doing so vainly for he was not good. The truth is really so simple!! Jesus is God in the flesh, as His name suggest..."God with us." Moroever, He came to show man how to live. Look at Phi. 2:5-8:

"You should have the same attitude toward one another that Christ Jesus had, who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, by looking like other men and sharing in their human nature. He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death - even death on the cross."

That scripture says it all. Jesus being God, become a nothing of a man to accomplish the mission of the Godhead, which was to save sinners. He lived a perfect life in total obedience to the Father and in total fuction or opperatioin of the Holy Spirit, and lived a perfect life and died a perfect sacrifice in order that all those who repent and trust in Him may have their sins imputed to His body and His righteousness will be imputed to them, making them justified before God. Its the plan of Salvation. Cults always try to criple it by attacking Jesus and who He really was. Its really sad! Again I say, if you have the wrong Jesus, your lost and you believe in vain.
 
Silas said:
Let the Bible tell it.





That scripture says it all. quote]




yes its best to stick to what the bible REALLY teaches:)




"Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’"—MATTHEW 3:17.



so there we have it ,


Jesus Christ—God’s Beloved Son



And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him. LUKE 9;35



For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: "This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved." .....2 peter 1;17


While he was yet speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and, look! a voice out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him
 matthew 17;5



and the holy spirit in bodily shape like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: "You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you." luke 3;22



and the scriptures say it all .

For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. ........john 3;16



For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. john 3;17




He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things? romans 8;32



wow this list gets longer and longer, soon i will have the whole of the bible in front of us , so it seems to be that the bible is in complete harmony with the thought that Jesus is GODS SON .


By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him. 1 JOHN 4;9



And to think that many people have been misled to believe that Jesus is God himself .


but as we can see from the bible itself that is wrong isnt it?


JESUS IS NOT GOD

and just one more,



"I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me." (John 6:38)







Never did Jesus claim to be almighty God himself. Any impartial reading of the Bible without preconceived ideas about the Trinity will verify that.


even the Roman soldiers standing by knew that Jesus was not God:

"The army officer and those with him watching over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things happening, grew very much afraid, saying: ‘Certainly this was God’s Son.’" (Matthew 27:54)



They did not say, ‘this was God’ or ‘this was God the Son,’ because Jesus and his disciples taught that Jesus was the Son of God, not God Almighty in human form.


i cant help myself here is another one



"What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me." (John 7:16)


who was it that sent Jesus , read John 3;16 again ,YES IT WAS GOD WHO SENT HIM.

Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)


and the list goes on :) i better stop now other wise i will have the whole of the bible on here.


so it seems from the bible that Jesus is Gods son.



Jesus always does what pleases his Father. So his Father feels pleased with him. And do you know what Jesus’ Father did?— He spoke all the way from heaven to tell men: ........"This is my Son."



































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Jesus is God, for he comes from God and his very nature is God. He sits on the throne of God in heaven, and all creatures; angels and man bow and worship Him, and as God his name is above all names. God shares his glory with no one; however Christ's Glory is God's glory, because they are one God, and together with the Holy Spirit they are God who created all things.
 
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