wy do people think jesus was god

JosephM said:
I assumed you were providing versus to indicate Jesus was God as in the title of the thread.
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they are verses about god humbling himself as a servant in the form of jesus christ for the salvation of man. jesus being god is a simple yet powerful verse in john 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Believe that and the rest of the bible will all come together.
 
Re: Cause the Bible says so.

Dor said:
John 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
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shall we read on a bit more
24 Therefore I said to you, you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins." 25 Therefore they began to say to him: "Who are you?" Jesus said to them: "Why am I even speaking to you at all? 26 I have many things to speak concerning you and to pass judgment upon. As a matter of fact, he that SENT ME is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world." 27 They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 Therefore Jesus said: "When once you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am [he], and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him." 30 As he was speaking these things, many put faith in him..................so who was it that sent Jesus ,it was his father Jehovah God.
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. John 3;16-18 and yes Jesus was right, after he was lifted up on the torture stake and put to death what did those people say that were standing around by the stake, ?
When Jesus died, even the Roman soldiers standing by knew that Jesus was not God: "The army officer and those with him watching over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things happening, grew very much afraid, saying: ‘Certainly this was God’s Son.’" (Matthew 27:54) They did not say, ‘this was God’ or ‘this was God the Son,’ because Jesus and his disciples taught that Jesus was the Son of God, not God Almighty in human form.
The Father is greater than I am."—Joh 14:28.
 
Re: Cause the Bible says so.

Dor said:

John 13:19Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
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From this moment on I am telling YOU before it occurs, in order that when it does occur YOU may believe that I am [he]. 20 Most truly I say to YOU, He that receives anyone I send receives me [also]. In turn he that receives me, receives [also] him that sent me...................... so who sent Jesus ,it was his father Jehovah God.Psalm 83;18
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
John 3;16 and who does Jesus send ? his disciples, matthew 28;19-20. and those disciples teach what Jesus taught them.
The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)
 
Re: Cause the Bible says so.

Dor said:


John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

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yes , he was the one that the officers and pharisees were looking for, it does not mean he was God . reading the context puts things right.
Having said these things, Jesus went out with his disciples across the winter torrent of Kid´ron to where there was a garden, and he and his disciples entered into it. 2 Now Judas, his betrayer, also knew the place, because Jesus had many times met there with his disciples. 3 Therefore Judas took the soldier band and officers of the chief priests and of the Pharisees and came there with torches and lamps and weapons. 4 Jesus, therefore, knowing all the things coming upon him, went forth and said to them: "Whom are YOU looking for?" 5 They answered him: "Jesus the Naz·a·rene´." He said to them: "I am [he]." Now Judas, his betrayer, was also standing with them.​
6 However, when he said to them: "I am [he]," they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 Therefore he asked them again: "Whom are YOU looking for?" They said: "Jesus the Naz·a·rene´." 8 Jesus answered: "I told YOU I am [he]. If, therefore, it is I YOU are looking for, let these go"; 9 in order that the word might be fulfilled which he said: "Of those whom you have given me I have not lost a single one." right context changes everthing.
 
like I said I am done. Everywhere in the Bible that word is is translated the same way. The one verse yall do not like you want to translate different. This is called making the Bible fit your doctrine the whole reason we have the NWT is they needed a Bible to fit their doctrine.

Anyone wants to deny Jesus feel free.
Anyone wants to delude themself and think they are his equal feel free.
Anyone wants to deny the very meaning of the word and call themself a Christian feel free.

Think it may just be time for me to take a break.
 
Thomas said:
If Jesus did not say He was God, on what grounds did the Sanhedrin accuse him of blasphemy?
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As was often the case with the Sanhedrin, they regularly accused Jesus of things of which he was not guilty.

With respect to their view that Jesus was claiming to be God (and/or equal to God - and this, because He said that God was His Father; John 5:18), this principally stemmed from the results of their own false humility.

They had the view that, by identifying Abraham as their Father (John 8:39, 53), this should, in turn, have caused Jesus (and the others listening on) to see them as being on an equality with Abraham - one deservng of equal respect and honor. This became evident with their response to Jesus' statement that God was His Father (John 5:18).

In other words, when Jesus said that God was his Father, it was then that their own hypocrisy was revealed, that is, by wrongly concluding that Jesus was also, by way of His own words, claiming an equality with God when, in fact, He was not. This would, no doubt, explain the many times at which Jesus spoke of His dependence upon His God and Father. For a few of the many examples, see: John 5:30; 7:28, 29; 8:28, 29; 8:42. Compare also: John 20:17; Revelation 3:2, 12.

Keep in mind, this kind of exposing of their hypocrisy was a regular consequence of their efforts to entrap Him - this point is often missed.

Just one more thing: Their hypocracy is further evident from the fact that, whereas they had such a problem with Jesus' statement that God was his Father, on the other hand, they too made the very same claim for themselves at John 8:41.

Agape, JohnOneOne.
john1one@earthlink.net
www dot goodcompanionbooks dot com
 
It's hard not to split hairs on this because, after all, it's all about semantical hairsplitting and selective anthropomorphisation. God, ultimately, is an unfathomable mystery. We can subdivide God in any number of ways, but those are all our constructs, so I don't think we should turn it around and say that God, of Itself, conforms to our construct.

In the beginning was the expressed concept, the master plan. The Logos isn't a person, it's an all encompassing set of impulsive energies carrying vital instructions within their vibrance that animate and sustain all creation. In the beginning the Logos was posessed by, and was God. John is saying that the Logos was made flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. This is how Jesus gets to be the "only begotten son", which is to say that he's the only one who got squirted out of a human woman's womb. It doesn't imply that he existed as a specific personality at the time of the beginning, but rather that the Word was made flesh, and he was that flesh.

2c

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
It's hard not to split hairs on this because, after all, it's all about semantical hairsplitting and selective anthropomorphisation. God, ultimately, is an unfathomable mystery. We can subdivide God in any number of ways, but those are all our constructs, so I don't think we should turn it around and say that God, of Itself, conforms to our construct.

In the beginning was the expressed concept, the master plan. The Logos isn't a person, it's an all encompassing set of impulsive energies carrying vital instructions within their vibrance that animate and sustain all creation. In the beginning the Logos was posessed by, and was God. John is saying that the Logos was made flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. This is how Jesus gets to be the "only begotten son", which is to say that he's the only one who got squirted out of a human woman's womb. It doesn't imply that he existed as a specific personality at the time of the beginning, but rather that the Word was made flesh, and he was that flesh.

2c

Chris
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When Henry Ford came up with his idea of the "assembly line", there was a point in time that he had to express sentiments to the public. He already was there, and the gearing was already in place, but what he said to the media was "We begin".

Chris. You know. I understand you speak your mind. I appreciate that. I respect you for your heartfelt thoughts and wish to understand where life is heading.

I don't appreciate the concept of "MY God" being "squirted out of the womb" (and all that insinuates). I really, really take offense to that (more than you know).

You need to learn to express yourself in a more genteel manner. Some one might file a complaint for you being a jerk...:eek:

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
When Henry Ford came up with his idea of the "assembly line", there was a point in time that he had to express sentiments to the public. He already was there, and the gearing was already in place, but what he said to the media was "We begin".


v/r

Joshua
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I am looking at the NWT and it refers to my Lord as a righteous sprout.
Where can I file a complaint?
 
pattimax said:
I am looking at the NWT and it refers to my Lord as a righteous sprout.
Where can I file a complaint?
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You can't. NWT is a publication, and the guys that wrote it are dead by almost 100 years.

Who is going to pull a publication that 6,000,000 have bought? Call it false? Prove it. That is the problem. Today's society does not discern between what was written 2000 years ago, and what was written 90 years ago...such a shame.

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
You can't. NWT is a publication, and the guys that wrote it are dead by almost 100 years.

Who is going to pull a publication that 6,000,000 have bought? Call it false? Prove it. That is the problem. Today's society does not discern between what was written 2000 years ago, and what was written 90 years ago...such a shame.

v/r

Joshua
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I was kidding, but yes it IS a shame. I think Ben Franklin said something about common sense not being all that common.
 
Let me ask a serious question: What practical difference does it make if Jesus is a created divine being and God is the most high God, versus the trinitarian construct? What does it change in the overall scheme of salvation?

Like this: "Jesus has to be co-equal with the Father because...", or "Jesus cannot be co-equal with Jehovah because...". But not because "it says so", I'm interested in the actual mechanics of salvation. Anyone want to tackle that one?

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Let me ask a serious question: What practical difference does it make if Jesus is a created divine being and God is the most high God, versus the trinitarian construct? What does it change in the overall scheme of salvation?

Like this: "Jesus has to be co-equal with the Father because...", or "Jesus cannot be co-equal with Jehovah because...". But not because "it says so", I'm interested in the actual mechanics of salvation. Anyone want to tackle that one?


Chris
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The fact that God created us and we want to glorify only him. Not dissect and pull apart His Holy Spirit. (mechanization of salvation?)
 
pattimax said:
The fact that God created us and we want to glorify only him. Not dissect and pull apart His Holy Spirit. (mechanization of salvation?)
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Well, we're already dividing God up into three co-equal parts, so I'm asking what the practical ramifications of having Jesus be a slightly junior partner would be. Can Jesus not save unless he's fully co-equal? Why? Or, from the non-trinitarian perspective, is there a practical difference in how salvation happens if Jesus is a created being rather than a co-equal? Does salvation itself collapse one way or the other? Why?

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
is there a practical difference in how salvation happens if Jesus is a created being rather than a co-equal? Does salvation itself collapse one way or the other? Why?
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if jesus was a created being then he would be apart from god, but because jesus was the word of god and god, and because only god can forgive and save and give life which jesus does as well, he is god.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Well, we're already dividing God up into three co-equal parts, so I'm asking what the practical ramifications of having Jesus be a slightly junior partner would be. Can Jesus not save unless he's fully co-equal? Why? Or, from the non-trinitarian perspective, is there a practical difference in how salvation happens if Jesus is a created being rather than a co-equal? Does salvation itself collapse one way or the other? Why?

Chris
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Simple questions, complex answers.
 
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