wy do people think jesus was god

BlaznFattyz said:
  • "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am," (ASV).
  • "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (KJV).
  • “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am," (NASB).
  • “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!"
  • “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM," (NKJV).
  • “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV).
  • "Truly, truly, before Abraham was, I am," (NLT).
  • "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV)
  • "Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am!" (KJ21).
  • "Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am,' (YLT).
  • "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (Darby).
  • "Antes que Abraham fuese, yo soy," (Spanish) - uses "yo soy" which is "I am."
  • "En vérité, en vérité, je vous le dis, avant qu'Abraham fût, je suis," (French) "je suis" which is "I am."
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  • “I am totally cereal you guys, I am teh god lol, kthx!!11/!" (Hacker version).
 
Cause the Bible says so.

John 8:24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων
 John 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:28ειπεν ουν αυτοις ο ιησους οταν υψωσητε τον υιον του ανθρωπου τοτε γνωσεσθε οτι εγω ειμι και απ εμαυτου ποιω ουδεν αλλα καθως εδιδαξεν με ο πατηρ μου ταυτα λαλω
John 8:28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 13:19απ αρτι λεγω υμιν προ του γενεσθαι ινα οταν γενηται πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι
John 13:19Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

John 18:5 απεκριθησαν αυτω ιησουν τον ναζωραιον λεγει αυτοις ο ιησους εγω ειμι ειστηκει δε και ιουδας ο παραδιδους αυτον μετ αυτων
John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

John 18:6ως ουν ειπεν αυτοις οτι εγω ειμι απηλθον εις τα οπισω και επεσον χαμαι
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

John 18:8απεκριθη ο ιησους ειπον υμιν οτι εγω ειμι ει ουν εμε ζητειτε αφετε τουτους υπαγειν
John 18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

John 8:58ειπεν αυτοις ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν πριν αβρααμ γενεσθαι εγω ειμι
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Why should 8:58 be changed when it was translated so many other places as I am.

 The Jews did not acuse him of blasphemy for claiming pre-existence. They did it cause he used a name God had used himself.
 The phrase was known in the early church.
 Irenaeus showed familiarity with it as I am, so did Origen and Novatian.
Chrysostom wrote, "As the Father used this expression, "I Am," so also doth Christ; for it signifieth continuous Being, irrespective of time. On which account the expression seemed to them to be blasphemous." "Homilies on St. John"
 
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Re: Cause the Bible says so.

Dor said:
The Jews did not acuse him of blasphemy for claiming pre-existence. They did it cause he used a name God had used himself.
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exactly. why do people want to argue what jesus claimed to be and what he said, when the evidence about what he was claiming is clearly written with the response of the people at that time who witnessed it.
 
Hi Dor,
The 6 additional versus you have given without a doubt say 'I am he'. But with all due respect it seems to me they refer to Jesus pointing to himself as the messiah which was to come, or in John 18 just Jesus acknowledging that I am Jesus whom you seek. That Jesus was indicating he was the messiah;

mashiyach, maw-shee'-akh; from Hebrew 4886 (mashach); anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically the Messiah :- anointed, Messiah.

it seems to be clear. Messiah meaning annointed is the same as the Greek word for Christ. Whenever I seem to read further past Jesus's statements of 'I am he', he always talks of himself as sent of the Father, doing the will of the father, or being one with the father even as we can be. I still do not see a statement where he says I am God but I do see a claim to being the messiah that was to come and a claim of being the Son of God. That seems to be very plain.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
Dor,
When I look further at the the Jewish understanding of the Messiah, even though most of them recognize not Jesus as him it is clear that they do not equate Messiah with God even if he were to come. Here is a short answer from a Jewish Rabbi.

Question

I'm interested in what exactly is the Jewish understanding of who the Messiah is, what his credentials are and what he is to do among the children of Israel. Answer

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]What is the Messiah (Mashiach) supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

1) Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The messiah will be a regular human being, born naturally to husband and wife. He is not to be a god, nor a man born of supernatural or virgin birth. The very idea that God would take on human form is repulsive to Jews because it contradicts our concept of God as being above and beyond the limitations of the human body and situation. Jews believe that G-d ALONE is to be worshipped, and not a being who is His creation, be he angel, saint, or even the messiah himself.

To learn more, read "The Real Messiah" by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, published by the National Conference of Synagogue Youth.

[/FONT]With blessings from Jerusalem,

Rabbi Shraga Simmons
 
JosephM said:
Whenever I seem to read further past Jesus's statements of 'I am he', he always talks of himself as sent of the Father, doing the will of the father, or being one with the father even as we can be.
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we can reborn to everlasting life by the blood of christ, but christ himself is this life and gives it to us and his spirit works in us. God is the father, son, and holy ghost, and we can be the children of god through his reaching out to us and our acceptance. we can be one such as the kingdom of god and brothers in christ doing the will of god, but we cannot be one as god is one--eternal and in three persons.
 
Dor said:
Chrysostom wrote, "As the Father used this expression, "I Am," so also doth Christ; for it signifieth continuous Being, irrespective of time. On which account the expression seemed to them to be blasphemous." "Homilies on St. John"
Click to expand...

If you do a search on the words 'I am' in the NT you will find it 698 times. It is used by John the Babtist, Peter, Paul, James and other people using the same word in Greek. Do we then equate them all with God because they use the same Greek word meaning 'I am'. Of course not.

John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

This was Jesus's words on what he really said in response to why they were accusing him of blasphemy. If it were because he said he was God, it seems to me he would have acknowledged it here.

Would there be any more versus that might be less prone to multiple interpretations by different Christians?

Love in Christ,
JM
 
JosephM said:
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]
1) Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).[/FONT]
Click to expand...

jesus is the living temple and was broken down and raised up in three days. the hidden things behind the curtain of the temple only seen by the jewish high priest is torn in half, it has been removed all mankind all may come to christ for salvation--repentance and forgiveness of sins. he makes all things new again and he is the only way to god.

god has not forgotten the promise of his chosen people and called them back to israel and allowed them to become a nation again. he will send them two witnesses in the future calling them back to the Lord Jesus Christ who is their God--a prophecy not yet fulfilled.

world peace when christ comes again to reign is a prophecy not yet fulfilled. yet those that have christ in their hearts already have peace.

The truth has come into the world and is the light of men. He is the saviour and the good news of the gospel is being spread to the entire world right now. Those that acknowledge him already as lord god and saviour are hidden in christ at judgement and are the saints of the kingdom of god, the rest will bow down regardless to the King when he comes again and judges them, the latter being another prophecy not yet fulfilled.
 
Dor said:
Oh it just is not even worth it any more.
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Thanks anyway Dor,

I was just sharing some thinking so one might gain a better understanding of where others who believe a bit differently yet serve the same God might be coming from with their own study of the Bible. I will leave it at that while we are all respecting of each other as humans and wish you a great day.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
Gotta hand it to you Joseph. You are really making sure the faithful research their scriptures...
 
JosephM said:
If you do a search on the words 'I am' in the NT you will find it 698 times. It is used by John the Babtist, Peter, Paul, James and other people using the same word in Greek. Do we then equate them all with God because they use the same Greek word meaning 'I am'. Of course not.

John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

This was Jesus's words on what he really said in response to why they were accusing him of blasphemy. If it were because he said he was God, it seems to me he would have acknowledged it here.

Would there be any more versus that might be less prone to multiple interpretations by different Christians?

Love in Christ,
JM
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Only if one misinterpets Jesus at the point that He made that statement, and I'm not talking about the words He spoke. He could not say He is God at that moment, because He was man (put aside His divinity for a time). Such a small issue, but so important in understanding His words and why He acted as He did.

The man was not God, the spirit within the flesh of the body was and is God. But He deliberately put away His godhead in order to walk as one of us...why is that so hard for some to accept?

He stated "I am", because He is. And we had to take His word on it. He was making us a promise and asking us to trust Him to fullfil it. Some did, some did not, some do not to this day.

How mind boggling, that God would lower Himself to the level of His creation, in order to elevate His creation closer to Him...

The very thought makes me want to cry.
 
Quahom1 said:
Only if one misinterpets Jesus at the point that He made that statement, and I'm not talking about the words He spoke. He could not say He is God at that moment, because He was man (put aside His divinity for a time). Such a small issue, but so important in understanding His words and why He acted as He did.

The man was not God, the spirit within the flesh of the body was and is God. But He deliberately put away His godhead in order to walk as one of us...why is that so hard for some to accept?

He stated "I am", because He is. And we had to take His word on it. He was making us a promise and asking us to trust Him to fullfil it. Some did, some did not, some do not to this day.

How mind boggling, that God would lower Himself to the level of His creation, in order to elevate His creation closer to Him...

The very thought makes me want to cry.
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Thanks Joshua,

That is the most logical and easiest to understand response I have heard yet and still make the versus fit.

"The man was not God, the spirit within the flesh of the body was and is God. But He deliberately put away His godhead in order to walk as one of us...why is that so hard for some to accept?"

Now where does it say he put away his godhead in order to walk as one of us?

I see a man named Jesus and I see the indwelling of the spirit of God in him. What I still have a problem seeing is that Jesus the man, even though he came from God was any more God than any other man with the spirit of God in the flesh of his body. All creation comes from God. The man Jesus (the messiah) was to come from the seed of David. If God is omnipresent, then how could he be in Jesus as a man but not in the rest of his creation? That is where I have a problem understanding your point of view. Somehow I fail to see how God could 'put away his godhead' and suffer as a man while still being omnipresent, omnipotent and all-knowing. In that light, If I see Jesus as God then I see all as God.

Just a point of view with no offense meant to any who see it differently.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
How God greatly humbled himself
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.


But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
How God greatly humbled himself
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Click to expand...


Beautiful versus BF,

Still in them I see Paul telling us to have the mind of Christ which was also in Jesus. Jesus did not think it robbery to think oneself 'similiar' to God
isos, ee'-sos; probably from Greek 1492 (eido) (through the idea of seeming); similar .
Neither should we if the mind of Christ dwells in us. Similiar yes, equal no unless you want us to be equal also. Poor translation from original Greek. Please check your Greek dictionary to confirm.


(snip)

The rest of your post contained beautiful and inspiring versus but I read them carefully and even looked at the Greek and did not see in them that which I assume you believe they say. Again, thanks for the versus, I did enjoy reading them as they are very uplifting.

Love in christ,
JM
 
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