another yoga and christianity commentary

BlaznFattyz

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Christian Yoga? C’mon!

Yoga’s the latest fad. Everyone’s doing it, including Christians. Churches are now offering “Christian yoga.” (An oxymoron, if there ever was one.) What’s up with fitness clubs and houses of God promoting yoga? Is yoga just good exercise, or is there more to it than that? Those who practice yoga techniques—especially professed Christians--should know what they’re being exposed to Yoga’s the latest fad. Everyone’s doing it, including Christians. Churches are now offering “Christian yoga.” (An oxymoron, if there ever was one.) What’s up with fitness clubs and houses of God promoting yoga? Is yoga just good exercise, or is there more to it than that? Those who practice yoga techniques—especially professed Christians--should know what they’re being exposed to.

Authentic yoga spiritual/religious disciplines derive from Eastern religious beliefs. There are several different forms of yoga:...


Cont'd
 
The Hindu community is unhappy about the effort to separate yoga from Hinduism so they’ve started a group called “Reclaiming Yoga.” They say they’ve had it up to here with fitness clubs that characterize yoga as exercise. (They have no one to blame but themselves. Hindu gurus who settled in the west are responsible for the commercialization of yoga.) David Orr, columnist for the London Daily Telegraph, tells us that, “The Indian government is furious that yoga practices dating back thousands of years are being ‘stolen’ by gurus and fitness instructors in Europe and the United States.”

That is so funny that the Hindus are getting mad.

Seriously, I have been to a few of these "yoga" classes, it consisted of stretching to The Lord's Prayer. Harmless.
 
yoga means to yoke, or unite, and the idea is to unite with god, in theory, at least, so I don't see how its bad to do xtian yoga, myself... nice to see ur rabid fundamentalism is all encompassing, blaznfattyz..
 
nice to see ur rabid fundamentalism is all encompassing, blaznfattyz..
the controversy already exists, there is no angle from me, just posting what's out there to spark dialogue here. among all the these you could say about the article, i dont appreciate the personal attack.
 
Don't forget that there are many types of yoga. Hatha and laya yoga are probably what most people mean when they use the term, especially in the context that seems to be under discussion (or "fire") here. This is the yoga of physical exercises (`asanas,' or postures), and concerns itself largely with physical health.

Bhakti yoga is the yoga of devotion, as exemplified by Vaishnavas ("Hare Krishnas," followers of ISKCON). One might also say that large numbers of Christians essentially follow a bhakti approach, especially those who are rather zealous about their faith. This is simply my observation ... a parallel I have noticed. It applies to Islam, and other traditions as well, to a lesser extent.


To illustrate my point, here's a small portion of the Wikipedia article under `bhakti,' the section on Theory of divine grace:
A person's fate is reflected mainly in the tendencies that he has created for himself through committed actions. He has total free will to surrender to God or not. But if he surrenders to Him heart and soul, He promises that He will take care of his pure devotee. This is famously illustrated in one of Krishna's final statements to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita:
  • "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear". (Bhagavad Gita 18.66)
Now this seems quite familiar, if I recall my Sunday School lessons correctly! Even something about one of the Commandments? ;)

But other yogas also exist. Patanjali's Raja Yoga, or `kingly yoga,' is largely that of *mental disciplines*. This is not about playing twister or seeing who can attain the full lotus position. :p It is about the training of the mind ... something which the modern (public) schools seem to almost completely ignore, as if things will simply take care of themselves, magically somehow. Even the popular music screams "we don't need no education, we don't need no THOUGHT CONTROL."

But this is precisely what Raja Yoga sets out to provide: *thought control*. The difference might be that, even as Krishna asks of Arjuna in the bhakti approach, the `taming of the mind' is to be done voluntarily, and not imposed upon us from some kind of external authority.

Another traditional form of yoga is Karma Yoga, or the 'yoga of action.' At first glance, this might seem counter-intuitive. After all, isn't the idea in Eastern religions to *rid* oneself of karma??? Yes, that is true, but it is also understood that *every action* - and in fact, every thought and every feeling - automatically generates a certain degree of positive or negative karma. Prayer for example, of any type to any deity, would be considered as generating an overwhelmingly positive karma.

So the karma yogin simply goes about his or her daily business, seeking to generate as much positive karma (or merit) as possible, yet not for the sake of self alone. The altruistic nature of this yoga discipline is that one *simply does what is right for the sake of doing right, seeking no reward*. Again, this sounds remarkably like teachings I have learned from within Christianity, perhaps even dovetailing with the Golden Rule.

A newer form of yoga than these ancient traditions is sometimes called Agni Yoga, which literally means `yoga of fire,' but which is often termed `the Teaching of Living Ethics' by its followers. One can read about it on Wikipedia, and evaluate it for oneself. This is a modern approach, and certainly does not focus on the practices of Hatha Yoga, or even the excercises of Raja Yoga. Nor is it recommended for everyone willy-nilly.

Perhaps of greatest interest to me along the lines of the discussion you have invited, Blazn, is something a family member related to me the other day. At her church, she pointed out, Yoga is being offered as a class, open to anyone regardless of belief and certainly regardless of interest in Eastern traditions. The focus is on improving one's health and well-being, on every level: physical, emotional, mental and spiritual.

This person is nearly 70 years old, and she was keen to point out that the Yoga is done sitting in a *chair*, so it is certainly not physically rigorous, though I do believe she said there is some stretching (postures, `asanas') involved. There is much more attention placed on relaxing, however, and also on learning to focus the mind and meditate.

I cannot fathom how any of this would be the least bit inharmonious to a sincere Christian ... certainly not to anyone seeking inner peace and spiritual upliftment. Perhaps these are not necessarily mutually inclusive?

Ah well, the class is optional - no one is *required* to attend. No one can force us to seek greater health on varoius levels, or to better ourselves. Like a healthy diet, this too is optional.

~Zag
 
yoga means to yoke, or unite, and the idea is to unite with god, in theory, at least, so I don't see how its bad to do xtian yoga, myself... nice to see ur rabid fundamentalism is all encompassing, blaznfattyz..

On the other hand, 'yoga' can only fully be understood within the context of its origin, which is the whole point – what yoga: Jnani, Bhaktik?. It's nice to see the West's utter disregard of the meaningful detail in full flow.

What the west excels at, which Buddhist as well as Hindu scholars are speaking out about, is its marvelous ability to trivialise something quite profound, reduce it to a commericial proposition, and render it essentially meaningless beyond personal vanity and a money-making exercise.

The assumption, for example, that Christianity is somehow 'wanting' in the idea of Divine Union, and that the 'solution' can be supplied from without, is nonsense.

To paraphrase: Christainity needs Yoga like a fish needs a bicycle.

Endnote:
On the subject of meditation – there is a significant backlash over the last few years at the western trivialisation and commercialisation of this discipline. Meanwhile many of its proponents suggest that Christian practice can be enhanced by mediation...

It's worth noting that Christian meditation has been practiced since the very first, but the great centres (notably Mount Athos) have been wise enough to keep it to themselves, precisely for the reason that they know the west only too well, and because they take the practice further than it is taken in the East.

The art Meditation – which is nothing more than the art of concentration – is a preparatory stage in the Christian complex to the art of Contemplation – something which should not be undertaken without direction and not to be done lightly.

It is because every Tom Dick and Harry will immediately determine that unlike everyone else he is quite capable and equipped spiritually and (more tellingly psychologically) to undergo such practice – whilst at the same time invariably utterly oblivious to the psychodynamic risk involved – unaided and without the necessary safeguards, that the reality of the practice remains largely secret.

Of course meditation and contemplation fall far short of the simple power or prayer, but then until the west can figure out a way to offer a material benefit for a consumer society, it escapes their attentions and is largely undervalued.

The recent 'religious fads' so popular among the Hollywood Set (renowned for their ascesis and sprititual insight) says it only too well...

Thomas
 
Seriously, I have been to a few of these "yoga" classes, it consisted of stretching to The Lord's Prayer. Harmless.


But, ...If Yoga is a spiritual/ritual practice by another set religion.... Is it harmless? As your bible tells you to "inter mingle" or change things with the way your god wants them to be, doesn't get his approval ;\

Example:

Satanic Orgies... They become a fad :D mwaha...

Oh hey guys! Lets have a freaking orgy this Sunday at church!
Not sure vicar... Is it ok?
Oh hell yea, we'll put the Lord's Prayer on in the back ground.
Awesome! I'm there man! I am soooooo freaking there.
 
jnana, knowledge yoga- reading the texts,- xtians do this when they read the bible, dont they?

bhakti, devotion yoga- praying, reciting mantras- xtians also do this, don't they

raja yoga, hatha yoga, the list goes on and no, I'm not trivialising or taking things out of context...

I think u will find that st ignatius of loyola practised meditation... and contemplation...

as for the personal attack, blazn, its okay when u do it, isnt it? when u stop attacking others in the guise of man of truth then maybe I won't think of u as a rabid fundie...

lets hate everyone in jesus name... yay!
 
Hi 17th Angel –

But, ...If Yoga is a spiritual/ritual practice by another set religion.... Is it harmless?

That's the crux, isn't it? Yoga in the West is devoid of any spiritual vision and, outside of its tradition, any charism. Any perceived 'benefit' is purely physical ... so I see it as 'harmless' in the sense of 'meaningless' – but you're right, it's not harmless in the sense that it leads one up the blind alley of one's own back passage.

If some form of Yoga was practiced, within a Christian context, as it should be, then the outcome would at the very least be 'a confusion of tongues' as the intention of the one is opposite the intention of the other...

This is all a sad indictment of the general ignorance of meaningful religion in the West, and the reduction of Christianity to a feel-good ethical humanism with a tad of 'spirituality' thrown in for that extra sense of self-righteousness.

My own experience is of so-called 'Christian Reiki' which is another slice of ignorance and consumerism.

Having studied martial arts for many years, and being aquainted with the exercise - dating back some 500 years - called 'reiki-no-ho', by which one supresses the ki of one's opponent and then kills him, the only thing that renders reiki harmless, is that the people doing it don't know what they're talking about...

Thomas
 
The article does seem to pose a very narrow and misguided view of mysticism, IMO.

InPeace,
InLove

Edited: I meant to post at the end of the latest comments. Sorry if I spoke out of place--forgot to do the old "linear mode" thing.
 
Hi 17th Angel –

That's the crux, isn't it? Yoga in the West is devoid of any spiritual vision and, outside of its tradition, any charism. Any perceived 'benefit' is purely physical ... so I see it as 'harmless' in the sense of 'meaningless' – but you're right, it's not harmless in the sense that it leads one up the blind alley of one's own back passage.

Indeeeeeeeeed Thomas, this is the key. Indeed it maybe means something over there, but shucks... We don't agree with what those other people use it for, I am also not sure what it means anyway... We're just doing it for fun and besides we are mixing it up with christianity so it will be fine.... Indeed a -blind- alley....
 
christians pray and meditate on god, but the big difference is the God part. this article seems to be pointing out that although the exercise and relaxation part of yoga is generally healthy, the part where poses and mantras are actually derived from the worshipping of eastern idols or gods, then we should educate ourseleves and be aware of it, so we don't mistakenly do those things which God is against. and it is that kind of yoga that seems to be at odds with christianity.
 
no 17th, no name tags, but there are free badges!!! we have JHY (jehovah hates yoga) JHW (Jehovah hates women), and YHG (jehovah hates gays) and JHM (Jehovah hates muslims)... I have run out of the JHL (jehovah hates liberals), as they were the most popular and just flew off the shelves... oh! we also do bumper stickers! and if u buy a job lot, u get a discount of 5% and also a free pamphlet, entitled- things jehovah hates and things u need to watch out for so u won't burn", written by cardinal roachfort...
 
But, ...If Yoga is a spiritual/ritual practice by another set religion.... Is it harmless? As your bible tells you to "inter mingle" or change things with the way your god wants them to be, doesn't get his approval ;\

Example:

Satanic Orgies... They become a fad :D mwaha...

Oh hey guys! Lets have a freaking orgy this Sunday at church!
Not sure vicar... Is it ok?
Oh hell yea, we'll put the Lord's Prayer on in the back ground.
Awesome! I'm there man! I am soooooo freaking there.

Like I said... Harmless.
 
It's worth noting that Christian meditation has been practiced since the very first, but the great centres (notably Mount Athos) have been wise enough to keep it to themselves, precisely for the reason that they know the west only too well, and because they take the practice further than it is taken in the East.

The art Meditation – which is nothing more than the art of concentration – is a preparatory stage in the Christian complex to the art of Contemplation – something which should not be undertaken without direction and not to be done lightly.

It is because every Tom Dick and Harry will immediately determine that unlike everyone else he is quite capable and equipped spiritually and (more tellingly psychologically) to undergo such practice – whilst at the same time invariably utterly oblivious to the psychodynamic risk involved – unaided and without the necessary safeguards, that the reality of the practice remains largely secret.

Of course meditation and contemplation fall far short of the simple power or prayer, but then until the west can figure out a way to offer a material benefit for a consumer society, it escapes their attentions and is largely undervalued.

The recent 'religious fads' so popular among the Hollywood Set (renowned for their ascesis and sprititual insight) says it only too well...

Thomas

Not to get sidetracked too far from the yoga discussion, but you piqued my curiousity. How can it be dangerous to meditate on God? Would we find ourselves in an Isaiahic vision of God's Holiness that we would get to close and burn up in the Sun of Righteousness? Or is there another danger?
 
yoga means to yoke, or unite, and the idea is to unite with god, in theory, at least, so I don't see how its bad to do xtian yoga, myself... nice to see ur rabid fundamentalism is all encompassing, blaznfattyz..

It appears Francis, that you are the one with an attitude which is quite unfortunate. Also the term is Christian, not xtian. CR has no problem entertaining different ideas, however personal attacks will not be tolerated.

v/r

Joshua

Moderator
 
quahom, u have said-

It appears Francis, that you are the one with an attitude which is quite unfortunate. Also the term is Christian, not xtian. CR has no problem entertaining different ideas, however personal attacks will not be tolerated.

v/r

Joshua/quahom/Moderator


please allow me to reply, quahom... conventionally, x-tian is not these days considered to be sacreligious- rather, the x denotes christ... I apologise if my use of this conventionality offends u...

as you say, personal attacks are not tolerated, yet blaznfattyz had on another thread called homosexuals bad names and told me I had a problem because I didnt believe homos were disgusting, and so now as he attacks yoga (as well as buddhism, islam and homo's, in seperate threads, and if u dont believe me, look at his/her posts) I felt compelled to typographically assault him, as I feel he has similarly assaulted me... an now u too, are closing ranks...

i would not be happy to think that homophobia or any kind of phobia is tolerated here, in this forum, and as for it being a xtian thread, I would also be very unhappy to think that xtians are really just morons/sheep/rabid fundies/ etc, and so yes, maybe I should apologise, and say, sorry blaznfattyz, for calling u a rabid fundie, but you've said things that I can't agree with, and if u want to play the "I'm a devout xtian card and I'm offended this nonentity/idiot speaks to me this way" then that's fair enough, but the church of england allows queers to be vicars, where I live, and thats how it should be...

"...they came for the jews, but I didnt say anything, as I wasn't a jew... if I said some of the things s/he has said about, say, jews, or muslims, I would be, in my civilised country, guilty of hate crime... sorry that u hate me, also, quahom, but I hate queer bashing, and buddha bashing, and mohammed bashing, and yoga bashing...

so, blazn, sorry, and quahom, sorry, and if u want to boot me, cool...
 
Kindest Regards, Francis!
as you say, personal attacks are not tolerated, yet blaznfattyz had on another thread called homosexuals bad names and told me I had a problem because I didnt believe homos were disgusting, and so now as he attacks yoga (as well as buddhism, islam and homo's, in seperate threads, and if u dont believe me, look at his/her posts) I felt compelled to typographically assault him, as I feel he has similarly assaulted me... an now u too, are closing ranks...
Sorry, but I have to step in here for a moment with my moderator hat on.

First, if there are specific instances where you feel something like this is true, that is, somebody "attacking" and "assaulting" other faiths or persons, there's a little red triangle thingy that allows you to notify a moderator and let's you point out what you find offensive.

Second, I follow a lot of Blazn's posts; some I agree with, some I don't. I have seen "him" point out things "he" disagrees with, just as I do. I have not seen him habitually assault anything. CR does strongly suggest tolerance...but I would like to take this moment to remind that tolerance *is not* acceptance. If one cannot voice an opposing view, what is the sense of discussion?

So, with these things in mind, I would like to ask you to pause and take a deep breath, maybe explore a little elsewhere for a bit, and come back with a fresh, calm and polite attitude. It hardly seems fitting or appropriate...complaining that another is intolerant, by demonstrating how intolerant one can be in retaliation. I seriously believe what in your opinion is intolerance, is in reality a simple case of disagreement.

i would not be happy to think that homophobia or any kind of phobia is tolerated here,
Is disagreement with the lifestyle a sign of "phobia?" If so, I must be phobic too. Yet I can discuss the matter amicably and logically, and without looking down my nose at somebody who sees the matter differently. I have had very good friends in my life that were, as you say, "queer." I love them as people, I simply disagree with their lifestyle. Does that, in your view, make me intolerant? If so, might I suggest a revisit of the whole concept of tolerance?

so, blazn, sorry, and quahom, sorry, and if u want to boot me, cool...
Oh, yeah, the martyr card doesn't get much sympathy when it's played back to back with sarcasm... So kindly take a chill pill, regroup, and come on back when you collect yourself and can discuss things in a civil manner. We'd love to see you around.
 
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