Atheists challenge the religious right

cyberpi said:
If a student does NOT judge, then the teacher can not help him. A person judges and reveals it with every word and with every action.
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I completely agree. I would add that labeling is another thing entirely.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I don't think God judges at all. I think that there is a natural Way that works best. Many possible paths within that way. We can choose to swim upstream or down. We can choose to manipulate the natural way for profit at the expense of other life. Whatever we choose sets up the circumstances of our life and determines the extent to which we connect with, walk with if you will, God. There are consequences to every choice we make- some are obvious and some aren't.

If we choose not to decide, or are oblivious to our ability to choose, the consequences are still the same. But if we consciously choose to align our intentions with, and actively participate with the Way we gain the ability to tap into the power source that creates and sustains the universe, and that's some kinda power!

Chris
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Wow! Great post!
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I'm going to have to think about that Karen. What you're suggesting has very deep ramifications.

"Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."

Chris
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Chris,
Deep ramifications, indeed. I am taking the intense beauty and grace of the cross into consideration.
sincerely, Karen
 
17th Angel said:
I don't believe ALL atheists, have this agenda, to challenge religions. I would say the majority just haven't been convinced by religion, so they get the atheist mark branded upon them... Something about the title atheist...

"Hi, yeah I'm 17th... I'm an atheist..." lol, I would never say that. I guess with some it could be a name to identify them, and because of this they want to live up to bringing as many from the religious side to the "atheist side" But I would suspect the majority of atheists couldn't give a rats butt, about challenging religion. But, I think how religious people hold on to their little titles oh so proudly. I'm a jew!! I'm a muslim! I'm a christian! It means something to them and they will hold on to it cause it apparently means something important to be able to call themselves by this name... I guess they expect everyone who doesn't believe to hang on to some title...
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I truly wish you would realize that true Christianity has nothing to do with titles or labels. At the second coming of Christ, I seriously doubt there will be any self-aggrandizement.
 
pattimax said:
Chris,
Deep ramifications, indeed. I am taking the intense beauty and grace of the cross into consideration.
sincerely, Karen
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I don't understand the necessity of Jesus death, or original sin, or the "plan of salvation." I know what Christians believe, and I know what the Bible says, but I don't understand the nuts and bolts of why and how.

Chris
 
Prober said:
...Until the end, of course - His Final Judgement.

I agreed with and loved the rest of your post.:)
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Thanks Mark!

Just a question: Does God actually do any judging at the "final judgement"? IOW, aside from judgement being passed, is there any debate where God makes judgement calls? You know, like instant replay on an iffy call?

Chris
 
According to Jesus, this is the basis for judgment:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." - John 12:48-50

The essence of Jesus's teachings is about Loving God and loving our neighbor. To the extent we have done this in our lives is the extent that we will be judged.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I don't understand the necessity of Jesus death, or original sin, or the "plan of salvation." I know what Christians believe, and I know what the Bible says, but I don't understand the nuts and bolts of why and how.

Chris
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I have only been studying Christianity for a few years, but from my simple take on it you need to start with a willing heart. I find that God loves one-on-one questions (you and God), but you have to be willing to dialogue with Him and listen to the answers and not just continuously ask valid question after valid question.

The necessity of Jesus death was God taking on flesh, being born fully human, going through everything we encounter, living an exceptional life, showing the powers that be how truly wrong and idiotic they were, and satisfying the law of blood sacrifice with his death on the cross.

If you are truly sincere in your studying, you'll eventually get the plan of salvation. (You don't strike me as a "blind faith" kind of person.)

As for "original sin" (fall of man), you are asking why God created us like we are. One reason is so we can relate to one another. Another is so we come to Him in true humility. Some other really good answers are in your heart and you know what you need to do... (Hint: bible)

sincerely, Karen
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Thanks Mark!

Just a question: Does God actually do any judging at the "final judgement"? IOW, aside from judgement being passed, is there any debate where God makes judgement calls? You know, like instant replay on an iffy call?

Chris
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Technically, no...I guess it should be called the final reward or something.

I believe the "investigative judgement" is going on now, starting with the dead and then working on the living (reviewing their lives).

When God has caught up on this backlog and the last living person has been reviewed, Jesus will return.

At that point, there will be no second chances.

The broadcast of this review is for everyone (including the devil) to be able to see and acknowledge (which they will) that God was and is fair.
 
pattimax said:
I truly wish you would realize that true Christianity has nothing to do with titles or labels. At the second coming of Christ, I seriously doubt there will be any self-aggrandizement.
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I think it does.... To many. People seem to cling on and love titles... ooooh a title... goody goody gum drops! Titles In my own opinon mean jack. But alot more people seem to see titles, with more value and worth than deeds.
 
Paladin said:
My favorite line in the above article:

Yet one critic, New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, calls for a truce: "We've suffered enough from religious intolerance that the last thing the world needs is irreligious intolerance."

Even the best apologetics won't sway those whose mind is made up. What science must inherently lack, religion has always provided. We are born into this crazy debate, and it will continue long after we are gone, and the only thing a believer could ever do to sway anyone's opinion is to embody that which she/he believes in the spirit of compassion, love, and the actions that are spawned by those truths.

Peace
Mark
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In otherwords, "stop talking, start walking"...:eek:
 
pattimax said:
The necessity of Jesus death was ... satisfying the law of blood sacrifice with his death on the cross.

If you are truly sincere in your studying, you'll eventually get the plan of salvation.
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I think another *good* possibility is that you will reject the idea of blood sacrifice altogether - as something humanity has outlived and outgrown... and that the plan of salvation may come to mean something else entirely. This still has everything to do with accepting Christ. :)

~Zag
 
Zagreus said:
I think another *good* possibility is that you will reject the idea of blood sacrifice altogether - as something humanity has outlived and outgrown... and that the plan of salvation may come to mean something else entirely. This still has everything to do with accepting Christ. :)

~Zag
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Hey Zag!
Blood sacrifices were part of God's Law in the Old Testament and it did not come with an acceptance option. Relax, Jesus Christ was the very last and eternal sacrifice. That is why they were constantly sacrificing animals in the Old Testament. Blood was required for forgiveness from God, but animal blood had no staying power. The blood of our lord, Jesus Christ was God's incredibly awesome gift to the world. His Blood is rather indelible. (magnificent staying power.) This has everything to do with accepting Christ. :)
sincerely, Karen


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
 
17th Angel said:
I think it does.... To many. People seem to cling on and love titles... ooooh a title... goody goody gum drops! Titles In my own opinon mean jack. But alot more people seem to see titles, with more value and worth than deeds.
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Do YOU realize what you're saying? You and God (along with many others) share the same opinion. wow.
 
Ah well, what can I say ... it's just Highway 61 - Revisted.

Dare to be different.

~Zag
 
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