The Trinity of Christianity

[kenod]

You said that you know God personally. How can you know an abstract idea personally? When you met this person to develop this person-al relationship was did this meeting take place?

Perhaps you mean “where” did this meeting take place … well, this meeting took place in my heart. What we know with out heart is more certain than what we know with our mind.

If you know God personally, you should be able to describe this person. To know a person personally implies that you have met and this person and know this person well.

He is loving, forgiving, patient, comforting, just … and He has a great sense of humour (after all He made penguins!)

When was the last time you saw God and how do you know this being you met and have a relationship with was God?

The last time I saw God was today when I looked into my mother’s eyes who is lying in a hospital bed racked with pain. I know I saw God because He is the one who gives her the inner strength, faith and courage to go on.

If you have never personally met this being you call God, how can you claim to have a personal relationship with this being?

The most important aspect of any relationship is love.
I loved each one of my children before I ever held them in my arms, because they are a part of me.
I am God’s child, and I am a part of Him. I feel His arms around me.

 

[Marietta]

Hello Kenod, Thank you for the reply.
Why do you refer to God as HE? Isn't it the She that gives life, nurtures, loves and supports life. Isn't it the HE that goes to war, taking life, is angry and demanding, desiring total control of others. The traits you have stated are more feminine than masculine.
You stated that the last time you saw god was looking into your mother's eyes (feminine). Are you saying that your mother is god (or a part of god)?
You stated that god is the one who gave her the strength to go on and I need to ask why you don't see hear as having this power within herself? It sounds like you are giving your mothers power away to this male god. Don't we all have our own inner strength and/or will?

We are in tatal agreement that the most important aspect of any relationship is Love. And the bottom line is we are all sons and daughters of God which is our relationship to God. The First Source of All things is PURE RADILANT LOVE!

Love and Light, Midge

 

[kenod]

Hello Kenod, Thank you for the reply.
Why do you refer to God as HE? Isn't it the She that gives life, nurtures, loves and supports life. Isn't it the HE that goes to war, taking life, is angry and demanding, desiring total control of others. The traits you have stated are more feminine than masculine.
You stated that the last time you saw god was looking into your mother's eyes (feminine). Are you saying that your mother is god (or a part of god)?
You stated that god is the one who gave her the strength to go on and I need to ask why you don't see hear as having this power within herself? It sounds like you are giving your mothers power away to this male god. Don't we all have our own inner strength and/or will?

We are in tatal agreement that the most important aspect of any relationship is Love. And the bottom line is we are all sons and daughters of God which is our relationship to God. The First Source of All things is PURE RADILANT LOVE!

Love and Light, Midge

I don't see God as having gender as we understand it. I can only relate to God as he has revealed Himself to me, and that is as my Heavenly Father, and my Redeemer.

One could argue that Life comes from the male since without fertilization an egg is dead tissue. One could also argue that fighting is a perversion of the masculine trait of protection. But lets not go there!

People can draw inner strength and courage from many sources. My mother tells me hers comes from God ... like a good son, I take notice of my Mum
And yes, my mother is a part of God, in the sense that all children are a part of their parents. That is the significance of the term "born again".

 

[wil]

I can only relate to God as he has revealed Himself to me, and that is as my Heavenly Father, and my Redeemer.

Can you expound on this? Did he reveal himself to you as these things or is this something that you read?

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Why do you refer to God as HE?

God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are referred to as He and Him thoughout the entire bible so there is no confusion of the nature of God and how he has revealed himself. One that wants to philosophize the revealed nature of God and start putting she or it where it does not exist will be confused.

 

[Marietta]

Hello Kenod,
Please help with my curiousity. How did god reveal himself to you as far as being your heavenly father and redeemer as opposed to your heavenly mother and supporter?

It is possible for a female to impregnate without the male being involved, which through history has been termed virgin birth or immaculate conception. Conception is only immaculate if the male is not involved, no sperm piercing the egg causing trauma. The female has embodied within her genes all that is necessary to fertilize and egg and bring it to term.
The male has X, Y chromosomes and the female has the perfect X, X chromosomes. The Y is a mutated X missing one of its legs.
Virgin births have been reported through out history and many have been reported in this day and age.

I can see where fighting could be a perversion of protection which is imperfection and the opposite of nurturing. If you are perfect LOVE without ego, you don't use aggressive protection of any kind, you protect yourself with the pure energy of LOVE.

We are all part of Source. Nothing exists outside of Source, we are all sparks of sources consciousness.

The term "born again" comes from the teaching of reincarnation which was taught in the church prior to the council of Nicia. John 3:3-8

Love and Light, Midge

 

[wil]

Virgin births have been reported through out history and many have been reported in this day and age.

Have been reported I believe...but studied and found that the offspring did not contain any chromosones that the mother did not have....I'd like to see that one...

 

[Quahom1]

What​

is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?​

The​

New Encyclopædia Britannica says: "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since."—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.​

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: "The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective."—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: "Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching."—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.
According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, "The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions."—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.


John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: "The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians."—(New York, 1965), p. 899.

lol, and the Trinity suits me just fine. I wouldn't have it anyother way.

 

[Marietta]

Hello BlaznFattyz,
Nice to have this opportunity to share thoughts with you. Are you aware that the bible has been manipulated over and over finally at the council of Nicia a theology was put together along with a translation to match it.
God didn't reveal this about himself, it is what those at the council of Nicia decided to teach. Then came the inquisition which began in the 1100's and lasted into the 1600's during which time anybody who opposed the teachings of the new found church were killed.
Please give me the reference in the old testament where God is referred to as the father. Also give me the new Testament reference you are speaking of, I have found most of the time that it is a mistranslation.
Thank you for your input.
Love and Light, Midge

 

[wil]

Namaste mee....I've got a question....we've got this group of people that got together and out of all the possible books put together 66 of them. Now this same group of people, or rather a group that was formed the same way the earlier group was, sanctioned by the same authority and all...they came together and added another decision to the mix pertaining to the 66 stories they found to be valuable...

What is the justification to deciding to hold the first decision holy beyond reproach and completely discount the second one. I am asking you, it would be beneficial if you didn't quote any of the books from the first decision as your justification for negating the second decision.

 

[Marietta]

Hello Wil, Thanks for the response. However, I don't understand what you are trying to say. Please clarify.
Love and Light, Midge


Wil stated:
Have been reported I believe...but studied and found that the offspring did not contain any chromosones that the mother did not have....I'd like to see that one...

 

[Marietta]

Hello mee, Thank you for this information.
The Shema refers to unification of consciousness. The unified filed from which all that exists sprang into being.
The Hebrew word "Achad" that is translated as One means to unite as does the English word one. Which can mean a single object which is made up of millions of atoms or a unified thought or group unified in thought or purpose. We are all part of this unified field of consciousness we call god. The First Source of all that is, which is referred to as God is out of dimensionality and beyond our comprehension due to our limited knowledge of nothing -ness which is everything -ness.
Love and Light, Midge

​

 

[soma]

I agree that this unified field is byond our comprehension. This unity of consciousness is not a new concept some call it God as you mentioned, but we must open up to it to make it effective so it can change our lives, making us aware that our bodies are in harmony with God, and His power is within. God flows through every atom of our being fortifying, energizing and renewing, but we are not aware of it. Embracing and identifying with unity, instead of our minds easily opens our being to the influx of new ideas, new thoughts, new people, and the new situations that come into our experience.
Drawing upon the invisible forces of unity we can feel the oneness and see that responsibility, decision-making and optimism all flow together in one universal consciousness, where God is an obvious reality. When a deep awareness of unity is established, one benefits tremendously physically, mentally and spiritually because the habit of being positive is acquired, and God is no longer a closed concept, but an infinite vast always present consciousness.

http://thinkunity.com

 

[Marietta]

Hello Soma, Thank you for this great post. Once we realize our potential as being part of this unified field of consciousness all sorts of possibilities open up to us.
I like the web site you have linked with your posts.
Love and Light, Marietta

 

[Quahom1]

I agree that this unified field is byond our comprehension. This unity of consciousness is not a new concept some call it God as you mentioned, but we must open up to it to make it effective so it can change our lives, making us aware that our bodies are in harmony with God, and His power is within. God flows through every atom of our being fortifying, energizing and renewing, but we are not aware of it. Embracing and identifying with unity, instead of our minds easily opens our being to the influx of new ideas, new thoughts, new people, and the new situations that come into our experience.
Drawing upon the invisible forces of unity we can feel the oneness and see that responsibility, decision-making and optimism all flow together in one universal consciousness, where God is an obvious reality. When a deep awareness of unity is established, one benefits tremendously physically, mentally and spiritually because the habit of being positive is acquired, and God is no longer a closed concept, but an infinite vast always present consciousness.

http://thinkunity.com

The problem with that, is the loss of self in the collective all. I believe that is where alot of people balk at becoming one with the Supreme (e.g. I want to walk with God, not get lost in Him). That is most likely the reason that a great deal of Christians identify with the Holy Trinity. One God, three personages that are distinct.

I mean, what good is being human, only to in the end become an amalgamation of a Super Consciousness? God might as well have not created man in the first place, if that was His intention for our existence to begin with (which I do not think is the case, else there would have been a need for a companion for man, because of his being "alone", before the "fall").

No, I like my uniqueness, in my relationship with God (I also like His companionship, don't get me wrong).

Maybe it is a cultural thing, but I doubt it.

v/r

Q

 

[taijasi]

Maybe it is a cultural thing, but I doubt it.

I think it can also just be the individual understanding that each of us has come to. For example, for me the 3rd aspect of the Trinity is the Created Universe ... as the ultimate physical expression (or "body") of God. This portion of God could be described as Pantheistic, or Panentheistic.

The 2nd Aspect refers to Christ on Cosmic scale. Obviously, I will just shrug then, if a person insists that this manifestation could ever have been limited to one man, in one specific place or time. It does express in different degrees of perfection, however, as that scoundrel, rapscallion and general humbug of a false-apostle Paul told us - in his letter to the Ephesians (yeah, the ones whose Mysteries he obviously understood) ... ch.4, v.13.

And that's the kind of Unity that I think we're speaking of, when a person desires to "walk with Christ." Eventually the expansion of awareness takes into its scope all men and all beings, and this is when our nice, lovely, rational minds just start to break down. We cannot claim to understand the mystery of Love and of God's Oneness (UNITY) ... through the rational mind. Some insist that it's cultural, but it doesn't take an enlightened Mahatma sitting on a mountain somewhere to feel, know and share God's Love. Not last time I checked, anyway.

We could really stop right there. Nevermind the 1st Aspect. If we are still stuck on the 2nd one, then what's the point? I'd say that in the East, some of these Mysteries have been understood implicitly for thousands of years before Christ Jesus ever walked the Earth, and LONG before Christian theologians ever began to wrestle with how a person can have a Love for everyone, yet still be an individual - with free will, independence, and a truly unique consciousness.

If someone pointed to a puddle of ooze, and said, try really hard, and maybe one day you, too, can be a part of that puddle, I'd have to just laugh. Of course that's not what is intended in the expression, "the dew drop slips into the shining sea."

I know, I know, we like to put a face, a name, an image, a persona - to that sea. But whether we call it Allah, Yahweh, Vishnu, Ormazd .... even Great and Mighty Fred, it's still what it is. Having a "personal relationship" with the 1st Aspect of Godhead is exactly what we're all here for, in one way, yet I think it's equally true to say that in normal, everyday terms - such a thing is impossible. But it doesn't mean we aren't supposed to try. And it doesn't mean Christ was just whistlin Dixie when he said, "I and the Father are One" ... and reminded the Apostles that to behodl Him, was to behold the Father.

We just like to reduce everything to simple, human terms. Including God, and the greatest of all Mysteries. "The mind is the great slayer of the Real."

Namaskar,

taijasa

 

[Quahom1]

...We just like to reduce everything to simple, human terms. Including God, and the greatest of all Mysteries. "The mind is the great slayer of the Real."

Namaskar,

taijasa

No, I meant I simply like to walk with God. I like to converse, ask questions, wonder and delight at what He has to show me...simple companionship between loved, and beloved...that's all.

It's not an intellectual thing. It just is...

"K.I.S.S." Seems to work best.

v/r

Q

 

[Marietta]

Hello Quahom, Why do you think that joining energy/consciousness with Source is giving up your identity? We each think for ourselves and are conscious sentient beings and will always be such. Energy/Consciousness never dies it merely transforms from one state to another either gaining more energy holding capacity or losing energy holding capacity. The higher up in density we go the more conscious holding capacity we have, which means we have a greater capacity for thinking and knowing what is what. Once we merge with Source we are our own consciousness but in a unified field without the chaos. Free will is the supreme law of the universe and taking the free will of another is what has been mislabeled as sin. Source/god allows all thought however when one person imposes there will upon another, this goes against the will of Source/god.
There is no loss in being one with Source, you do not lose your identity. You fully realize your identity and position within the bigger identity field you are a part of. Its like my ears do the hearing within this body of mine and the eyes do the seeing and the feet do the walking, the heart pumps the blood. Each identity within Source has its own unique thought process that has a divine purpose and works for the good of the whole.

The purpose of our being humans in this three dimensional existence is to experience what it is like to be this separated from Source and what it is like to experience polarity.

The companion for man was his polar opposite, the other half of himself. We were originally androgynous male and female in perfect union in one being. The taking of woman out of the side of man was about dividing into polar opposites. When translated literally it says, "these here are from asking everything that was beautiful pure and holy to leave and mysteriously she did so of her own accord." It was not about taking a rib from the side of a man and creating a woman. The male energy was the inner core of the partaki (the smallest unit of energy/consciousness) and the female surrounded it (the womb so to speak) holding it within.
The fall is about falling from the sixth dimension into this third dimension. Humans were created on Tara which is earth's counter part in the second harmonic universe which consists of dimensions four, five and six. Humans were created as angelic beings however they were given to much knowledge without the maturity to handle it and being manipulated by what has been called fallen angels they used energy in a manner that caused a catastrophe on their planet and a portion of Tara broke off and fell into this density. It was hosted into this density through a morphogenetic field of Urtha (the Van Allen radiation belt) which held the same blue print as Tara did

I hope this wasn't to long.
Love and Light, Midge

 

[taijasi]

No, I meant I simply like to walk with God. I like to converse, ask questions, wonder and delight at what He has to show me...simple companionship between loved, and beloved...that's all.

It's not an intellectual thing. It just is...

"K.I.S.S." Seems to work best.

v/r

Q

Well, then by the same token, I enjoy it when my quarks - charm, strange and the gang - walk with me. Hey, we don't talk physics, we just converse.

taijasi

 

[Quahom1]

Hello Quahom, Why do you think that joining energy/consciousness with Source is giving up your identity? ...

Io solo. Perhaps not the wording that a baby first born considers, but none the less the sentiment is there. Then, "Whoa! There are others!?!" is the second sentiment. But the first is the longest lasting...

So when God comes knocking on our door, we think (for how long?). Then in life we find (if we choose to accept what is), that God is there always, and meets us on our own "turf". That is the wonder of God, you see? But we don't give up ourselves. Give up our lives, give up our health, give up our freedom, but not ourselves, until, until we understand that God does not wish to absorb us. He wants to walk with us.

Hate to bring this up, but we are mongeral dogs, who are being befriended by a good master. And we understand deep inside that it is the "Master". And He sees us as a perfect prize, for some reason...

It isn't God that looks down on us. It is we who look down on us. (io solo). So this God gives it to us in levels we can understand, to the point where we come to Him in fear, and Hope, and Trust, and He makes us "Men" again. (for lack of a better term). I think, we are nowhere near the "man" that Adam was. So much potential... (we are just a shadow).

I wish I could explain what is in my mind, better. But I can't seem to find the words.

But I don't think God wanted a wimp. He wants someone to walk and talk and commune with Him, as a Companion. From a different perspective, so to speak.

We all have talents, see? With God's guidance, and encouragement, what we do in this life with our talents...how much farther we can go in eternity...

But the Father is by nature intimidating. And the Spirit is not directly accessible. That leaves the Son, who wore our visage, felt our pains, and suffered our fear of death (think about it, the only thing we really fear is dying). Is that all there is? He said no. God, showed us even He is more powerful than death, and there was only one way to prove it to man...so He did.

But at no time, in all of this did Jesus ever, or the Father ever, or the Spirit ever say, or imply "you must become one with me".

I have free will now. I suspect I'll have free will then. My heart is a different matter...

my thoughts

v/r

Q