The Trinity of Christianity

Ok no anger and no judgement here.
I have 6 different translations of the bibles in my house and 7 more on my computer and they all say paraphrased that God made man and then made woman. Not a single one of the 1000's of people that translated any of them thought it said the Goddesses made an androgynous creature. God has convinced me that my bible is his word and I take him at his word.
I dont need to change it and I dont need to tear it apart to make me feel better about what it says.

Peace and harmony only works to a certain point. We are not supposed to just appease everyone as Kenod pointed out.
I was in the military I fought in a war so people had right to say what they want. I will always welcome opinions and everyones right to speak them. I will not always just say yes you are right. I will tell you when I do not agree with you.
I definately will not deny my beliefs in the bible and God to save face or make everyone feel good.:)
 
Hello Kenod, Thank you for the response.
If what I have come to understand sounds new age to you, so be it but I am not new age and do not promote "Love, Light and Clueless ness." The ostridge can stick its head in the sand and still gets devoured by its predators.. However, I am of the mind that anger has no place and that peace and harmony are always for the best of all. What good does it benefit me to get angry and spread discord? This is the kind of thinking that brought about the inquisition and is what terrorism is built upon. Are you aware that more people have been killed in the name of religion than in all the major wars put together. During the inquisition alone over 5 million were killed. Once someone gets angry they shut down and when they attack the natural response of the one being attacked is to attack back and before you know it you have a full blown battle. When discussing the scriptures what good does a battle accomplish? The only thing that is learned from fighting is that it hurts, not only yourself but those with whom you are fighting.
Just look how it spreads, she has pulled you into her battle to fight for her. It doesn't take much thought to realize how anger is harmful and never brings a peaceful solution. A little leaven can spreads to the whole lump.

Simple logic tells you that anger is a destructive force. Jesus was a being of love and light and did not get angry.

In the Greek Mark 3:5 literally reads: 5. and glancing around at their anger, grieving over their blindness (a medical term meaning a thick skin over the eyes, probably cataracts). the heart of them remembering that they were human beings holding out their hands and holding the hands they were restored.

Jesus came among a group of angry people who were grieving over their blindness. They held out their hands to Jesus and Jesus took hold of their hands and healed them.

Matthew 10
34. denying the custom that go cut down peace on the earth don't beat down peace but the sword

Jesus denies taking away the piece and continues to say to take away the sword (not piece).

What good does anger (opposing love) bring?
Love and Light, Marietta
 
Hello Dor, Apology accepted. Now lets continue in a discussion of Love and Light where we can both come away with more knowledge. :)

You are making to many judgments against me. I do not have an agenda of any kind. I am a true seeker of Divine truth plane and simple. I state what I have come to understand and listen to what others have come to understand or believe and assimilate what makes since and discard what doesn't plane and simple. If I had an agenda I would be the one getting upset but due to the fact that I don't have an agenda other than learning and sharing what I have come to understand, I don't take this personal.

Yes, we are supposed to judge everything however when you judge another person and do it inaccurately and promote it in a public forum you have also convicted that person and you do not have the right to do so.

You wrote:
"""the only thing we are not supposed to judge is someone's salvation."""

You judged my heart and implied that I am an unbeliever and a corrupter. It is the heart that determines our salvation and you judged my heart by a few simple statements on a message board.

However all is well and good and I love you all the same.
Love and Light, Midge
 
Greetings Dor, Good to have a fresh start with the air cleared.

The number of bibles that you have access to does not make them correct, they are all simply translations. I personally have 21 translations of the bible and I have never counted how many I have on my computer. I used to be a collector and got my hands on every translation I could find. This does not negate the fact that a standard has been set for those who translated these text. They take the given meaning of a text and their translation has to follow the guidelines of what the text has come to mean. Hermeneutics were used to distort the true teachings of Christ. Hermeneutics was developed by Homer to twist the teachings of Plato. It is a means by which you can take the teachings about the gods and make it apply to whatever you want by simply adding a rule. This is why there are so many different churches with differing beliefs. However this wasn't only applied to interpretation of a given text, it was also applied to the ancient language. The church forbid anybody to speak the language of have copies of any literature in the ancient language. They went as far as to burn libraries to hide the real truth. The Hebrew speaking people were forbidden to speak the language and were forced to speak Greek. The NT was originally written in Hebrew/Aramaic and later translated into Greek. With nobody speaking or reading the original language over the years it was almost forgotten except in the closed circles of the Jews who kept it alive in hiding. Each time it was found that they still had some of this knowledge they were killed. The inquisition lasted for over 600 years while the church set up its new doctrine and anybody who opposed the teachings of the church were killed. People tried to make translations from hidden copies of the Hebrew text but when found the text was burned along with its translators. The church claimed to be totalitarian stating that only the pope could hear the voice of God and it was only the pope who could tell you what those scriptures said and meant. To this day he is called the Vicar.

You stated:
"""God has convinced me that my bible is his word and I take him at his word.
I dont need to change it and I dont need to tear it apart to make me feel better about what it says."""

Please believe me when I say that I never set out to tear the bible apart or change it.
Over the years I have come to realize some pretty amazing things. My heart, desire’s to know Divine Truth and to live a righteous life. I grieve daily for wisdom and knowledge, along with understanding, and stay in prayer at all times including when I am sleeping. I feel as if my heart sometimes will literally burst as I grieve to know Source's Divine Truth. Over the years I kept coming back to Genesis, which is where my learning started to take root, and is where my Spirit brought me to begin giving me understanding. You can’t pick up a book and start reading it in the middle or at the end, expecting to gain a solid understanding of what it is all about. I never started out with the thought in mind to study any particular subject or text I just wanted to know the truth about the Holy Scriptures in the form we call the Bible. Over thirty years ago I found myself praying daily for wisdom and knowledge along with understanding, also praying for the ability to discern spirits. I also, prayed that the Holy Spirit would empty my mind of anything that I had learned over the years that jaded my mind to pure knowledge, so my mind could process divine understanding acquiring wisdom. As I prayed this prayer my whole body would ache with grief longing for the ability to discern Divine Truth as given in the scriptures.
Spending a lot of time studying the Holy Scriptures I would find passages that didn’t fit what I had been taught. At first I was afraid to question what they were saying, due to my religious upbringing however, when I finally realized that I wasn’t questioning God, but was questioning man’s interpretation and translation of these scriptures, is when my Spirit started to open up beginning my learning process. I prayed that my mind would be opened to learning, and that as soon as my mind was open I asked that guardian angels be put around it, keeping any untruth from entering.
My prayer was and still is that my Spirit awakens enough to expand my mind, so that I can at least grasp a flash of this infinite wisdom
The Divine Laws of Creation in the form of the scriptures are so rich and chunky that it is easy to choke on them. There were times that I bit off more than I could chew and I almost choked. I became afraid, couldn’t sleep and doubt tried to creep in. Then the Holy Spirit opened my mind, so that I could digest what I was choking on and how very sweet was the taste of it.
Whenever the Spirit revel’s something opposing what I have already come to understand I panic and question weather it is a trick of the devil, however after praying with all my heart and with a lot of grief the Spirit always provides at least two witnesses that back up what I am seeing. There are always other passages in the Bible that back up what I have been shown. Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little, this is how the Spirit reveals things.

You wrote:
""Peace and harmony only works to a certain point. We are not supposed to just appease everyone as Kenod pointed out.""



Peace and Harmony ALWAYS WORK FOR THE GOOD OF ALL. In all war only one side comes out a winner and nobody has a right to take the freedom of another away even if we disagree with it.
There is a very big difference in appeasing someone (which is merely agreeing with them for the sake of agreeing) and attacking someone to show your point. You can maintain a state of peace and harmony and at the same time get your point across. Sometimes it is good to agree to disagree and let it go. Nobody has a right to force their beliefs upon another.

Love is supreme and Love does not destroy, it uplifts and builds.

If nothing else I hope we come to understand where the other is coming from.

Love and Light, Marietta
 
Dor said:
...I have 6 different translations of the bibles in my house and 7 more on my computer and they all say paraphrased that God made man and then made woman....
Click to expand...
tis the nice thing about the bible...no matter what your viewpoint you can find some such evidence...

Gen1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

two versions of creation/Genesis two versions of Noah, was it pairs or 7 pairs...
 
Hello Dor and everybody here reading this thread,
I suppose this should be put in another thread and I will also start a new thread titled "Biblical contridictions."

This is simply to show support that the bible has been mistranslated. Either it has been mistranslated and minuplated or it was not inspired by God (I hold to the former that it has been manipulated).
Here is merely a sample of the contridictions contained with in the pages the bible.

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1 Corinthians 2:15: The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, ...

1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing...
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Luke 24:39 - Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: HANDLE ME, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
John 20:17 - Jesus saith unto her, TOUCH ME NOT; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God (all quotes from the KJV).
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Matthew 27:5: So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.
Acts 1:18: With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out on the ground.
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2Samuel 24:1: Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.
1Chronicles 21:1: Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.
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Exodus 21:12: Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.
Matthew 5:39: & Romans 12:17: Do not repay any one evil for evil.
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Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he said this, he breathed his last.

John 19:30 When he received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
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1 Kings 9:23 They were also the chief officials in charge of Solomon's projects -- 550 officials supervising the men who did the work.

2 Chronicles 8:10 They were also King Solomon's chief officials -- 250 officials supervising the men.
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A bat is not a bird. Note that this isn't just an arbitrary classification that the Western and European world has created. A bat is a bird as much as a Cocker Spaniel is a cat.
These are the birds you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, ... any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat (Leviticus 11:13-19)
You may eat any clean bird. But these you may not eat: the eagle, ... any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (Deuteronomy 14:11-17)
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Insects, as part of their definition, have six legs. (Spiders are arachnids, not insects.)
All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: ... Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket, or grasshopper. (Leviticus 11:20-22)
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Snakes don't eat dirt.
So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, ... You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust..." (Genesis 3:14)
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Camels have split hooves.
There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. (Leviticus 11:4)
However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the coney. [1] Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. (Deuteronomy 14:7)
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The earth is not flat, as once thought. It has no corners at all, and "ends of the earth" is not typically interpreted as from outer space. (Besides, what would be the ends? Why should the magnetic poles be "ends" as opposed to the axis of rotation?)
... he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth. (Isaiah 11:12)
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, ... (Revelation 7:1)
Oh Lord, ... to you the nations will come from the ends of the earth... (Jeremiah 16:19)
... and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth. (Daniel 4:10-11)
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I have lots more. But this will do for now to show my point.
Love and Ligh, Marietta
 
wil said:
tis the nice thing about the bible...no matter what your viewpoint you can find some such evidence...

Gen1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

two versions of creation/Genesis two versions of Noah, was it pairs or 7 pairs...
Click to expand...

Was not 2 versions of creation Wil. For Noah it was 7 and pairs.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Lets see clean animals-sacrifice after flood waters reced which we see in 8:20 if there would have been 2 then they would have died out. Not mentioning the difference between clean and unclean is a twist.
 
Marietta said:
Hello Dor,
Are you aware that the original text was not broken down into words or paragraphs? The Original Hebrew/Aramaic was written in on long string of letters.Love and Light, Marietta
Click to expand...

But yet you still try to pull out one single verse and say it contradicts another one.
1 Corinthians 2:15: The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, ...
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing...
Click to expand...
At least use whole verses not just the parts that show your "contradiction"

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

that specifically distinguishes between men enlightened by the Holy Spirit and men using senses only. That we are supposed to judge or discern all things reveled of Spiritual nature

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

This tells us specifically not to judge a man or his salvation cause we can not see his heart.

No contradiction.
 
Marietta said:
Luke 24:39 - Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: HANDLE ME, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
John 20:17 - Jesus saith unto her, TOUCH ME NOT; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God (all quotes from the KJV).
Love and Ligh, Marietta
Click to expand...
G680
ἅπτομαι
haptomai
hap'-tom-ahee
Reflexive of G681; properly to attach oneself to, that is, to touch (in many implied relations): - touch.

no contradiction here. We see in Mat 28:9 that the women held him by his feet and worshiped him. He was simply telling her not to attach herself to his feet but to go run and erand for him.
 
Dor said:
Was not 2 versions of creation Wil. For Noah it was 7 and pairs.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Lets see clean animals-sacrifice after flood waters reced which we see in 8:20 if there would have been 2 then they would have died out. Not mentioning the difference between clean and unclean is a twist.
Click to expand...
Namaste Dor, I don't have issues with the two versions of creation, believe they were derived from different authors and have different meaning separately and even more yet combined. But if you make yourself a chart and write down the order of what occurred day 1, day 2 etc...and then look at the differences in your charts between Gen1 and Gen2

As for Noah
Gen6:9 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them." 22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.
Click to expand...
So Noah did that, everything G-d commanded of him....next chapter we jump authors again..
Gen7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made." 5 And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him.
Click to expand...
Again same as Gen1, Gen2 two different versions of the same story, two authors combined in different chapters of the book. Not an issue, just an observation. I was not the one that omitted any difference between the clean and the unclean, that was the omitted by the first author, but do observe that those unclean animals, did not die out.
 
Gen 8:20 And Noah built an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

What we saw in 6 was a general telling Noah of what was gonna happen. After which he built the Ark.
Chpt 7 is direct instructions after he built the Ark and is loading them up. The clean animals he had to take 7 of because he had to have sacrifices. for 8:20. No contradiction, no seperate stories.
 
taijasi said:
... ah yes. THAT is likely to give rise to a bit of righteous indignation. Getting angry, and upset, and pitching a general fit - as a child's temper tantrum - is unbecoming of ANY human. The notion that a Master such as Christ Jesus might carry on in such fashion ... is preposterous.

taijasa
Click to expand...

Hmmm, you really should have sent this post to President Chavez, before he got up to address the UN...:eek: :eek:
 
Hello Dor, Thank you for your input.
The reason I selected verses from the English translation was to show the inconsistencies within the English translations of the text. To show that the translation is flawed. I thought it was self explanatory.

You wrote:
""At least use whole verses not just the parts that show your "contradiction""""


You already stated that you have your own bible and access to others online so I left it up to you to read the entire text. This was done to shorten the text because some people don't like to read and will not read a long response.


You Quote:
""""1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.


The first part of this scripture 14: states that the natural man (a person not interested in spiritual things) does not receive or understand spiritual things because he thinks they are foolish, and therefore he can't understand them. The second part 15: states that the spiritual man is to JUDGE all things, without being judged himself.
The next verse says that the person who seeks spiritual things judges everything and doesn't take it at face value. This person doesn't believe something just because they are told it is so, they dig deep and find the truth.
The next verse says NOT TO JUDGE ANYTHING until Jesus comes again and give enlightenment to those seeking divine truth.

The first verse says to judge everything and the next says not to judge anything. This is a contradiction in terms.

Where in this text does it mention a mans salvation?

You can add all the wording you wish to the statement but it doesn't change what it is saying and what it is stating is a contradiction.

Love and Light, Marietta
 
It is very easy to see when you read the chapters they are talking about different things. the first one you had was talking about spiritual things. The second one was talking about man's heart.
 
Greetings Dor, Thank you. You have proven my point here. You have to go back to the Greek and find the true meaning to make since of what is being said. However I say take it all the way and go back to the Greek and translate every work in the text and see what you come up with. You will be very surprised.
However even though you have taken a third verse and applied it to verses taken from two books written by other authors to make your point you still had to go to the Greek to clarify what you wanted to bring forward and there is still a contradiction hanging on. Weather he said not to attach or touch or to attach or touch.
Love and Light, Marietta
 
taijasi said:
But for a hint, and for starters, to see the teachings of one of Humanity's Greatest ... distorted, misquoted, bent out of shape and essentially tailor-twisted to fit & justify our own actions, thinking & personally-comfortable sense of morality, including what is and isn't decent interpersonal behavior between people seeking to express LOVE ....

... ah yes. THAT is likely to give rise to a bit of righteous indignation. Getting angry, and upset, and pitching a general fit - as a child's temper tantrum - is unbecoming of ANY human. The notion that a Master such as Christ Jesus might carry on in such fashion ... is preposterous.
Click to expand...

An emotion and an action are very different. It is just as erroneous to say that anger leads to destruction as to say desire leads to promiscuity.

Paul said "Be angry and sin not" which suggests that anger can lead to wrong actions but does not necessarily do so.

Jesus condemns "whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause" (Matthew 5:22) which again suggests that anger may not be sinful in itself.

And all the translations I have studied say Jesus looked around at the Pharisees with anger (Mark 3:5). I do not know Greek (nor Aramaic, in which Mark's Gospel was probably first written) so I compare the work of a number of scholars, and there is a consensus on this version of the original text.

btw, I don't think anyone is of the opinion that Jesus had "a general fit - as a child's temper tantrum".
 
Marietta said:
Simple logic tells you that anger is a destructive force. Jesus was a being of love and light and did not get angry.

In the Greek Mark 3:5 literally reads: 5. and glancing around at their anger, grieving over their blindness (a medical term meaning a thick skin over the eyes, probably cataracts). the heart of them remembering that they were human beings holding out their hands and holding the hands they were restored.

Jesus came among a group of angry people who were grieving over their blindness. They held out their hands to Jesus and Jesus took hold of their hands and healed them.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what Greek text you are referring to, but it must be different to that which the scholars used who translated all the versions of the Bible I have consulted. And I'm sure you are aware that the Greek text may very well be a translation from the original Aramaic text.

You say: "Simple logic tells you that anger is a destructive force." My logic tells me that anger is just an emotion, and it can be directed in either a positive or a negative way. Same with hate.
 
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