Did You Go

[seattlegal]

well, i know i didn't offend you, man, but take that seattle gal for instance, calling me an animal and such. sounds like my wife! she calls me an animal, too! lol.

Some scripture for you to consider in the context of my animal comment.
Ecclesiates 3:17-21

17 I said in my heart,


“ God shall judge the righteous and the wicked,
For there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.”

18 I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” 19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

and Galatians 5:16-26

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[LeoSalinas22]

are you judging my works by what i type on an internet forum? are you saying that i am lewd? that i lack self control? how do you know what kind of person i am? are you upset at something and taking it out on me? did i say something to offend thee? if i did, i ask God for forgiveness. fact is, i am a sinner, an animal if you will, i am not worthy to tie the sandals of my King, i am dust. if i am all these things i just mentioned, what does that make you? righteous? no one is righteous. i know my wife loves me, just the way i am. my two boys always wait for me to get home from work and when they see me, they give me the biggest hug i have ever known, everyday this happens. i also happen to know that my Father loves me just the way i am, because He has given me so much in this world, despite the fact that i cursed Him before i even knew Him and He still didn't turn His back on me. may His Name be blessed for all eternity and may His throne of Righteousness reign in to all of eternity. amen. i hope you understand that i am not claiming to be righteous, just truthful. don't be self righteous, seattlegal, it is not very humble. hope to hear from you soon.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Leo I think you are over-analyzing what she is saying. Take a deep breath.

Shes one of the most gentle posters on here and she isnt condemning you for anything.

 

[seattlegal]

are you judging my works by what i type on an internet forum? are you saying that i am lewd? that i lack self control? how do you know what kind of person i am? are you upset at something and taking it out on me? did i say something to offend thee? if i did, i ask God for forgiveness. fact is, i am a sinner, an animal if you will, i am not worthy to tie the sandals of my King, i am dust. if i am all these things i just mentioned, what does that make you? righteous? no one is righteous. i know my wife loves me, just the way i am. my two boys always wait for me to get home from work and when they see me, they give me the biggest hug i have ever known, everyday this happens. i also happen to know that my Father loves me just the way i am, because He has given me so much in this world, despite the fact that i cursed Him before i even knew Him and He still didn't turn His back on me. may His Name be blessed for all eternity and may His throne of Righteousness reign in to all of eternity. amen. i hope you understand that i am not claiming to be righteous, just truthful. don't be self righteous, seattlegal, it is not very humble. hope to hear from you soon.

Let's just backtrack here and review exactly what was written:
~~~~~~~

q, man rules over woman, period. our Father says so. and just because i stare at women sometimes does not make me undisciplined. it makes me a sinner.

It puts you closer to the animal realm than to the human realm, imo. Animals don't control themselves. Real men do. JMHO.

Have you considered that Adam ended up with authority (and hence, responsibility) over Eve because he tried to blame Eve for his eating the forbidden fruit, instead acknowledging his own lack of self-control? It's tough to pass the blame onto someone else in order to escape responsibility when you are also held responsible for that person's actions, isn't it?

no it doesn't put me with the animal realm. it puts me with the dust realm, for that was the curse for man, from dust you were made and to dust we all return. i don't see why you get all offended if in the end you just end up admitting and recognizing that man has authority over woman because woman can't take care of themselves so they need a real man to do that for them!

well, i know i didn't offend you, man, but take that seattle gal for instance, calling me an animal and such. sounds like my wife! she calls me an animal, too! lol.

Some scripture for you to consider in the context of my animal comment.
Ecclesiates 3:17-21

and Galatians 5:16-26

I explained the animal comment in scriptural terms, how the works of the flesh {animal} and the fruits of the spirits work contrary to each other, with one of the fruits of the spirit being self-control. Therefore, a lack of self-control would indicate more of the fleshly {animal} nature than the spiritual nature of a true man.

How can a man be given authority and control over others when he doesn't even have control over himself?

One more scripture you might want to consider:
Luke 16:15 {Jesus said} "And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God."

 

[LeoSalinas22]

Leo I think you are over-analyzing what she is saying. Take a deep breath.

Shes one of the most gentle posters on here and she isnt condemning you for anything.

no, well i think she just condemned me for being born a sinner. what do you think?

 

[cyberpi]

no, well i think she just condemned me for being born a sinner. what do you think?

Is a person ever condemned by another person's words?

q, man rules over woman, period. our Father says so. and just because i stare at women sometimes does not make me undisciplined. it makes me a sinner.

So if you stare at MEN instead then you are not a sinner? Undisciplined? Not an animal?

 

[LeoSalinas22]

Is a person ever condemned by another person's words?

So if you stare at MEN instead then you are not a sinner? Undisciplined? Not an animal?

no, i know that no man can condemn me. i was just answering, faith's statement about seattlegal never condemning anyone. as for staring at men, what the heck are you implying?!

 

[cyberpi]

no, i know that no man can condemn me.

I consciously said 'person'.

as for staring at men, what the heck are you implying?!

I am suggesting a test for whether gender belongs in this complex... if staring at women is a sin for you, then what would you call it if you stared at men?

 

[LeoSalinas22]

homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes. what are you trying to get at?

 

[cyberpi]

homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes. what are you trying to get at?

So then gender is irrelevant in your statement: staring at anyone is a sin. Your statement has been de-gendered. I consider that a worthwhile exercise. That is all.

 

[LeoSalinas22]

So then gender is irrelevant in your statement: staring at anyone is a sin. Your statement has been de-gendered. I consider that a worthwhile exercise. That is all.

lol, what?! did you think i was gay or something?

 

[LeoSalinas22]

Let's just backtrack here and review exactly what was written:
~~~~~~~
I explained the animal comment in scriptural terms, how the works of the flesh {animal} and the fruits of the spirits work contrary to each other, with one of the fruits of the spirit being self-control. Therefore, a lack of self-control would indicate more of the fleshly {animal} nature than the spiritual nature of a true man.

How can a man be given authority and control over others when he doesn't even have control over himself?

One more scripture you might want to consider:
Luke 16:15 {Jesus said} "And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God."

i don't know how it is that you know how i am in person by just reading some posts. as far as women are concerned, yes, i do stare at them, but everywhere i go they are there. what will you have me do, become a hermit and live in the woods? surely, there must be something you stare at during the 24 hours of your day. may not be flesh, it may be clothe, shoes, your own figure or the figure of other women, soaps, etc. we all lust something. no one is righteous. and we can't be overrighteous, lest we destroy ourselves. as far as my wife calling me an animal, it is a positive statement, sort of like honey or babe, you know? now as far as control, i wouldn't call it control, but i am responsible for my family. God gave me responsibility over them and His law lights our pathway. and yes, only God knows my heart, you obviously don't. chill seattlegal, chill. its just a thread, girl. i am only a man.

 

[cyberpi]

I can't find a verse that made a Man responsible for a family over a woman. Anyone? Never seen it... does it exist? Let no person come between a person and God.

 

[Quahom1]

I can't find a verse that made a Man responsible for a family over a woman. Anyone? Never seen it... does it exist? Let no person come between a person and God.

Genesis 3:16, ...thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee...

now, for a reality check on things:

"Even in the home, where the husband is to be the “head,” and the wife is to be in “subjection” (Ephesians 5:22ff), there is a sphere wherein woman is allowed to exert some authority. In one of his letters to Timothy, Paul declares that woman is to “rule the household” (1 Timothy 5:14). “Almost surprisingly, Paul contends that the woman is to ‘rule the household.’ The term ‘rule’ (oikodespotein—present tense; standard procedure) is a fairly strong word. It signifies to be the ‘master’ of a house, to ‘rule’ a household, ‘manage’ family affairs (Thayer, p. 439). The passage cannot be employed, of course, to cancel the role relationship taught elsewhere (e.g., Ephesians 5:22ff), but it does recognize that women have domestic skills that men do not possess. The wise husband will recognize this and cooperate with his wife, the result being a contented home. Lenski well noted that: ‘This is the domain and province of woman, in which no man can compete with her. Its greatness and its importance should ever be held up as woman’s divinely intended sphere, in which all her womanly qualities and gifts find full play and happiest gratification’ (p. 676). It is somewhat surprising at how many commentators slide lightly over this phrase” (on 1 Timothy 5:14)."

So, by default, man (husband) rules over woman (wife), who has authority over the home...however, she does not supercede his rule over all pertaining to family.

Naval forces understand this relationship and apply it daily onboard vessels. There is the Commanding Officer, and the Executive Officer. Though the CO is in command of the vessel, et al, the XO is in charge of the crew and day to day affairs. This leaves the CO to deal with affairs beyond the ship and crew...

v/r

Joshua

 

[seattlegal]

i don't know how it is that you know how i am in person by just reading some posts. as far as women are concerned, yes, i do stare at them, but everywhere i go they are there. what will you have me do, become a hermit and live in the woods? surely, there must be something you stare at during the 24 hours of your day. may not be flesh, it may be clothe, shoes, your own figure or the figure of other women, soaps, etc. we all lust something. no one is righteous. and we can't be overrighteous, lest we destroy ourselves. as far as my wife calling me an animal, it is a positive statement, sort of like honey or babe, you know? now as far as control, i wouldn't call it control, but i am responsible for my family. God gave me responsibility over them and His law lights our pathway. and yes, only God knows my heart, you obviously don't. chill seattlegal, chill. its just a thread, girl. i am only a man.

I'm not telling you what to do or how to run your life. I'm simply pointing out what the scriptures have to say on the matter. Why are you trying to project your contention onto me when confronted with scriptures? I have no problem with a man possessing self-control, a fruit of the Spirit, exercising his authority. Such authority is beneficial. {Remember, the head of man is God.} I do have a problem with someone who has no self-control exercising authority over others. Such authority is harmful, and the lack of self-control demonstrates that God is not the head of that authority.

Anyone wielding authority without restraint in a harmful way to those in my household has to deal with me.

 

[cyberpi]

While by agreement people are responsible for each other, or to each other... before God a person is always responsible for their own actions. Applying a military command structure to the family is an error. The military commander is NOT a servant to the individuals he commands and instead he is a servant to his leader. The followers are seemingly slaves to their open ended agreements. The issue is responsibility... will a military commander be responsible before God for the actions of the followers? No. Does the follower shed responsibility for his own actions? No.

Ephesians 5:22 can easily be worded the other way too: "Husbands, submit yourselves to you own wifes, as unto the Lord." Are men NOT to equally serve their wives and their children? They are... marriage is a joint submission. One Flesh. Or are men to take marching orders from a President or employer, and then command their family accordingly? Sadly, it happens.

Leviticus 19:3 You shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.

If there is precedence in a family between father and mother, I do NOT see it coming from the Bible. The commandment from God is to fear (obey) both.

 

[Quahom1]

While by agreement people are responsible for each other, or to each other... before God a person is always responsible for their own actions. Applying a military command structure to the family is an error. The military commander is NOT a servant to the individuals he commands and instead he is a servant to his leader. The followers are seemingly slaves to their open ended agreements. The issue is responsibility... will a military commander be responsible before God for the actions of the followers? No. Does the follower shed responsibility for his own actions? No.

Ephesians 5:22 can easily be worded the other way too: "Husbands, submit yourselves to you own wifes, as unto the Lord." Are men NOT to equally serve their wives and their children? They are... marriage is a joint submission. One Flesh. Or are men to take marching orders from a President or employer, and then command their family accordingly? Sadly, it happens.

Leviticus 19:3 You shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.

If there is precedence in a family between father and mother, I do NOT see it coming from the Bible. The commandment from God is to fear (obey) both.

It was an example of the familial life being used in military hiearchy(within a specific unit, this case a crew aboard a ship, subject to long hours at sea...but then you knew that quite clearly...so my example stands true.

Nice try.

And quite the contrary. A military Commander is the FIRST SERVANT, to his troops. You know little about the military I should think. But it is the quinsentencial of a family unit. Maybe it is one you don't understand. But it works, as history proves over thousands of years...

 

[cyberpi]

In the military chain of command it is claimed that authority is delegated but responsibility is not delegated. For instance if the command is given, "Board that boat and kill everyone on board," the authority to do so is given but allegedly the military commanders are responsible for the actions of their sub-ordinates. The leaders will try to claim responsibility with their words... do they really? Before God?

In the military it is possible for a commander to look out for "his men"... but on the day that the off order comes, will he place the welfare of "his sheep" above those orders? In the military the orders have priority.

 

[17th Angel]

In the military chain of command it is claimed that authority is delegated but responsibility is not delegated. For instance if the command is given, "Board that boat and kill everyone on board," the authority to do so is given but allegedly the military commanders are responsible for the actions of their sub-ordinates. The leaders will try to claim responsibility with their words... do they really? Before God?

In the military it is possible for a commander to look out for "his men"... but on the day that the off order comes, will he place the welfare of "his sheep" above those orders? In the military the orders have priority.

You haven't ever been in the forces have you sunshine? Without having that understanding or first hand experience, you will maybe never get how it "works" but as Q has said, it does... There is always in the mind of a solider, the hope, for peaceful conclusion to a situation, if not then with force, BUT with control, no mistakes! No (minimum)casualties... You -organise- you plan, you gear up and you organise..... and then you plan some. Everyone knows what they are doing what their role is and what their brothers role is. You make it sound like a soldier is some kind of robot... and this maybe just me... But from reading it makes it seem that you think soldiers think they are better than any other? That might just be me.

 

[Prober]

I've heard it said that the man is the head of the house and the woman is the neck that turns the head.