There is no such thing as 'Free Will'

Dream said:
Intuitively it may seem that our actions are always predicated by overwhelming forces, but this is not necessarily provable. Assuming that every action you take relies upon the sum of previous forces, you create a set of choices that you will make in your lifetime, each depending upon the previous, and this is like a trivial formal math system in which choice #1 plus choice #2 makes choice #3 inevitable. Any such system, will be incomplete -- with axioms that are unprovable. The famous Incompleteness Theorems show that in any trivial formal system (assuming the set of inevitable choices in a person's lifetime is one) show that this must be true. In fact, you cannot prove or say that every action you take is predetermined. You are making a guess.
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Nope, no guessing.
We always, without exception, choose in the direction of the strongest influence all of the time. It is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer. The fact that we choose it proves that we prefer it at least slightly more than influences that are almost just as strong.
IMHO it proves itself.

The TV spells it Phillies
Toronto 3, Phillies 2, top of the fourth.
Our two kids were born in Philadelphia so we win either way. :)
 
rodgertutt said:
We will always, without exception, choose in the direction of the strongest sets of influences that are being brought to bear upon our minds, because it is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer. The fact that we choose it demonstrates that we preferred it at least slightly more than other sets of influences that were almost just as strong.
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Logical Fallacies

Begging the question
 
Anyone know where the owner of this site lives?
Philadelphia perhaps? :)
 
citizenzen said:
Logical Fallacies

Begging the question
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There is no question to beg.

We will always, without exception, choose in the direction of the strongest sets of influences that are being brought to bear upon our minds, because it is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer. The fact that we choose it demonstrates that we preferred it at least slightly more than other sets of influences that were almost just as strong.
 
citizenzen said:
Dude, it doesn't literally have to be a question.

How about calling it "circular reasoning".

Does that help?
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If the strongest influence makes you want to call it that then that is what you will call it. But it is still true that we will always, without exception, choose in the direction of the strongest sets of influences that are being brought to bear upon our minds, because it is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer. The fact that we choose it demonstrates that we preferred it at least slightly more than other sets of influences that were almost just as strong.
 
rodgertutt said:
If the strongest influence makes you want to call it that then that is what you will call it.
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I believe that is what you called it... not me.

rodgertutt said:
But it is still true that we will always, without exception, choose in the direction of the strongest sets of influences that are being brought to bear upon our minds, because it is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer. The fact that we choose it demonstrates that we preferred it at least slightly more than other sets of influences that were almost just as strong.
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Exactly! That's exactly the meaningless circular reasoning I was pointing to. Thank you for stating it so clearly.
 
citizenzen said:
I believe that is what you called it... not me.
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Have it your way.


Exactly! That's exactly the meaningless circular reasoning I was pointing to. Thank you for stating it so clearly.
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You're welcome. "Meaningless" is a perception that at least one person on this forum perceives as a meaningless conclusion.

After all is said and done it is still true that we will always, without exception, choose in the direction of the strongest sets of influences that are being brought to bear upon our minds, because it is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer. The fact that we choose it demonstrates that we preferred it at least slightly more than other sets of influences that were almost just as strong.
 
Drivel.

You've repeated that line so often to yourself that it's become a mantra.

Whatever works for you.
 
That was an exciting inning. At least it's tied. Need a batter with some strong influence. :)
 
citizenzen said:
Drivel.

You've repeated that line so often to yourself that it's become a mantra.

Whatever works for you.
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Nope, it's not just "what works for me" that counts. It's what is true that counts.

And IMHO it is actually true that we will always, without exception, choose in the direction of the strongest sets of influences that are being brought to bear upon our minds, because it is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer. The fact that we choose it demonstrates that we preferred it at least slightly more than other sets of influences that were almost just as strong.
 
Here, let me rephrase it for you.

You do what you do because you do it, otherwise it would not have been done.

(bolded and italicized even!)
 
citizenzen said:
Here, let me rephrase it for you.

You do what you do because you do it, otherwise it would not have been done.

(bolded and italicized even!)
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Everything I and the Blue Jays have done is because the strongest influences caused us to do it. That's why the Jays are ahead again. :D
 
Well, it looks like the strongest influence prevailed again.
How about them Blue Jays eh?!!
 
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