The Trinity, from the JW view.

[BlaznFattyz]

you don't get it completely. quote]


I leave out the manmade trinity doctrine bits and stick to what the bible REALLY teaches ITS BETTER its pure bible teachings


and its very good

no, u are leaving out the bible and replacing it with watchtower doctrine. everything i said is from the bible, you just want to ignore it because you have too much invested into your organization.

 

[wil]

no, u are leaving out the bible and replacing it with watchtower doctrine. everything i said is from the bible, you just want to ignore it because you have too much invested into your organization.

Namaste Blazn,

The Trinity from the JW view. does come from the watchtower or the watchtower from it, surely you wouldn't expect otherwise would you?

 

[Bishadi]

The Trinity is a Christian doctrine, stating that God is one Being Who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons [1]: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit.

The word 'trinity' itself is not found in the Christian Bible.

does this help?

Or would you like another point of view?

The Trimurti (English: ‘three forms’; Sanskrit: trimūrti) is a concept in Hinduism "in which the cosmic functions of creation, maintenance, and destruction are personified by the forms of Brahmā the creator, Viṣṇu the maintainer or preserver, and Śiva the destroyer or transformer."[1][2] These three deities have been called "the Hindu triad" [3] or the "Great Trinity".

or even the JW view

How is the Trinity Explained?

The main theme of this section is that the Trinity is difficult to understand, even contrary to human reason, and a number of quotes, mostly from Catholic sources, are quoted to illustrate that the Trinity is an incomprehensi­ble mystery. To begin with, let us admit that there is a difference between what is illogical or unreasonable and what is beyond our understanding. For example, physicists tell us that certain building blocks of reality (quanta) are both waves and particles. How can they be both? The physicists themselves don't fully understand, but assume that one day we will have sufficient data to explain why a quantum can have the properties of both a wave and a particle. In other words, there is a solution to the problem that further research may supply. What I want to suggest to you is that the doctrine of the Trinity is like this. It is the only explanation that makes sense of what the Bible actually says about God, but God does not give us enough data to fit it all together. This does not mean that it is unreasonable, any more than electrical theory is unreasonable because an Australian aborigine doesn't understand or believe in electric light bulbs.
In fact, the Bible teaches that God himself is beyond our understanding. Both the Jehovah's Witness and the Christian admit that God is infinite. Therefore we can never comprehend him in his totality, because we are finite. God is unlimited and we are limited. Consider Ps 145:3, and Isa 55:8-9:

Great is the Lord, and most worthy of praise; his greatness no one can fathom (NIV). "For as the thoughts of you people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways your ways", is the utterance of Jehovah, "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts" (NWT).

And for any nut who likes keeping both feet on the ground, get MET! (mass, energy, time; the total; ONE)

 

[mee]

does this help?

Or would you like another point of view?

or even the JW view

and here is what Jehovahs witnesses REALLY believe.

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.​

psalm 83;18




For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.
john 3;16-17



As Jesus himself said ,"I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me." (John 6:38) "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me." (John 7:16)


yes its all in the bible , and Jehovahs witnesses always stick to the bible and the teachings of Gods son Jesus christ .

Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)


When Jesus was about to die, he showed subjection to his Father in praying: "Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place." (Luke 22:42)


To whom was Jesus praying? To himself? No, he was praying to his Father in heaven.

This is clearly shown by his saying: "Let, not my will, but yours take place." And then, at his death, Jesus cried out: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34)

To whom was Jesus crying out? To himself? No, he was crying out to his Father who was in heaven.





And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him." luke 9;35


good clear bible teaching is what all Jehovahs witnesses are in to , and its very good and if we listen to Jesus it is the way to EVERLASTING LIFE ,






This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

John 17;3


yes the true God is JEHOVAH, and his son who he sent forth is JESUS .


AND ITS ALL IN THE BIBLE its good isnt it?



Do not be misled

 

[Cooper]

So manmade... Ok cool Why is it important not to believe in the trinity? What harm could that do? By the way names Alex, thanks for chatting with me brother

Because it is fallacy. G-d is ONE.

 

[mee]

Jehovah is near to all those calling upon him,
To all those who call upon him in trueness. ​

(Or, "truth; truthfulness.")

psalm 145;18​

Did the Early Church Teach That God Is a Trinity?NO


Did Jesus and his disciples teach the doctrine of the Trinity? NO


Was it a teaching of Jesus and his disciples? If so, it should have appeared fully formed in the first century of our Common Era. And since what they taught is found in the Bible, then the Trinity doctrine is either a Bible teaching or it is not. If it is, it should be clearly taught in the Bible. But as we can clearly see it is not a bible teaching.


At Acts chapter 17, verse 11, people are called "noble-minded" because they were "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so," things taught by the apostle Paul.

They were encouraged to use the Scriptures to confirm the teachings even of an apostle. we should do the same.


Keep in mind that the Scriptures are "inspired of God" and are to be used for "setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16, 17)

So the Bible is complete in doctrinal matters. If the Trinity doctrine is true, it should be there.



Can I find any scripture that mentions "Trinity"?
NO


Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God? NO



Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom? NO


Search as you may, you will not find one scripture that uses the word Trinity, nor will you find any that says that Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom.


Not even a single scripture says that the Son is equal to the Father in those ways—and if there were such a scripture, it would establish not a Trinity but at most a "duality." Nowhere does the Bible equate the holy spirit with the Father.



So there we have it, the Trinity is not a bible teaching .

Trinitarians may say that the Bible "implies" a Trinity. But this claim is made long after the Bible was written. It is an attempt to read into the Bible what clergymen of later times arbitrarily decided should be doctrine.



The reason the Bible does not clearly teach the Trinity doctrine is simple: It is not a Bible teaching.


Had God been a Trinity, he would surely have made it clear so that Jesus and his disciples could have taught it to others.


And that vital information would have been included in God’s inspired Word.

It would not have been left to imperfect men to struggle with centuries later.

 

[mee]

Here you go mee, you now have a stage for an audience that wishes to learn what your view is.... Loving ya brother. So key pointers mee? How's it work? Your words brother, why do you believe what you do?

ok then

Jehovah is near to all those calling upon him,
To all those who call upon him in trueness. ​

(Or, "truth; truthfulness.")

psalm 145;18​

Did the Early Church Teach That God Is a Trinity?NO


Did Jesus and his disciples teach the doctrine of the Trinity? NO


Was it a teaching of Jesus and his disciples? If so, it should have appeared fully formed in the first century of our Common Era. And since what they taught is found in the Bible, then the Trinity doctrine is either a Bible teaching or it is not. If it is, it should be clearly taught in the Bible. But as we can clearly see it is not a bible teaching.


At Acts chapter 17, verse 11, people are called "noble-minded" because they were "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so," things taught by the apostle Paul.

They were encouraged to use the Scriptures to confirm the teachings even of an apostle. we should do the same.


Keep in mind that the Scriptures are "inspired of God" and are to be used for "setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16, 17)

So the Bible is complete in doctrinal matters. If the Trinity doctrine is true, it should be there.



Can I find any scripture that mentions "Trinity"?
NO


Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God? NO



Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom? NO


Search as you may, you will not find one scripture that uses the word Trinity, nor will you find any that says that Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom.


Not even a single scripture says that the Son is equal to the Father in those ways—and if there were such a scripture, it would establish not a Trinity but at most a "duality." Nowhere does the Bible equate the holy spirit with the Father.



So there we have it, the Trinity is not a bible teaching .

Trinitarians may say that the Bible "implies" a Trinity. But this claim is made long after the Bible was written. It is an attempt to read into the Bible what clergymen of later times arbitrarily decided should be doctrine.



The reason the Bible does not clearly teach the Trinity doctrine is simple: It is not a Bible teaching.


Had God been a Trinity, he would surely have made it clear so that Jesus and his disciples could have taught it to others.


And that vital information would have been included in God’s inspired Word.

It would not have been left to imperfect men to struggle with centuries later.

 

[mee]

So manmade... Ok cool Why is it important not to believe in the trinity? What harm could that do? By the way names Alex, thanks for chatting with me brother

one word FALSEHOOD comes to mind when i hear the word TRINITY , and worshiping with spirit and truth is the way to go for mee.

so the trinity is not for mee, which reminds me of revelation 18;4 GET OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE , is the command from Jesus . babylon the great is the worldwide empire of false religion i am out of there .

 

[Quahom1]

one word FALSEHOOD comes to mind when i hear the word TRINITY , and worshiping with spirit and truth is the way to go for mee.

so the trinity is not for mee, which reminds me of revelation 18;4 GET OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE , is the command from Jesus . babylon the great is the worldwide empire of false religion i am out of there .

Ironic. When I heard the word "Jehovah's Witness" I simply shake my head in sadness. I have so much more than the JW to be grateful for, thanks to the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit. God is always with me, regardless of what form He takes.

Sometimes, I need a Father. Sometimes I need a Friend, and sometimes I need inspiration and protection. God provides that for me up close and personal.

Mee, it isn't good to be stuck on yourself, or narrow minded. God did not limit us to be mindless parrots. He said in fact "there is nothing man can not accomplish that he puts his mind to." That includes learning the whole of God.

By limitting your venues towards the whole of God, you limit yourself, and your options to excel.

That truly is a shame, and I pity you.

v/r

Q

 

[mee]

and I pity you.

v/r

Q

mee likes to stick to what the bible REALLY teaches , and its not the trinity.




All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

2 timothy 3;16-17


mee feels completely equipped or fitted out for every good work.

and its all in the bible with no manmade doctrines like the trinity needed.

 

[mee]

Mee, it isn't good to be stuck on yourself, or narrow minded.

v/r

Q

I am glad to say that rather than being stuck on myself i am sticking to what the bible REALLY teaches. it is better than manmade thoughts, and sticking to what the bible REALLY teaches is a narrow gate.

In his famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it." (Matthew 7:13, 14)


The Bible explicitly states that there is "one faith." (Ephesians 4:5) Clearly, many who are on the "broad" road have a religion. But they do not have the "one faith." Since there is only one true form of worship, those who desire to find that true faith will have to seek it out.

 

[Quahom1]

mee likes to stick to what the bible REALLY teaches , and its not the trinity.




All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

2 timothy 3;16-17


mee feels completely equipped or fitted out for every good work.

and its all in the bible with no manmade doctrines like the trinity needed.

Nor does the bible teach that Jesus was not God/is not God. Only non-christians teach that. So, what are you? Christian or non-christian? Careful how you answer mee. All your well laid out plans and patients might just go up in smoke...

 

[mee]

Nor does the bible teach that Jesus was not God/is not God.


Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) We should believe Jesus, for he surely knew the truth about his relationship to his Father.

 

[17th Angel]

Nor does the bible teach that Jesus was not God/is not God. Only non-christians teach that. So, what are you? Christian or non-christian? Careful how you answer mee. All your well laid out plans and patients might just go up in smoke...

Q,

A philosopher once said...... (naughty naughty, very naughty lol......) Sorry.... A philosopher named Porphyry, (strongly agaisnt Christianity...) Questioned himself to look and research his question to himself simply was who is to blame? Jesus? Or the followers? He went on to show (basis of the NT) that jesus preached about another, not himself, that he also did not claim to be god. And he goes on to suggest that it was the followers who abandoned Jesus' teachings...... Now Q, sorry here is the main part.... Christianity... Is it based on the word and teachings of Jesus? Or is it simply ideas forged by the disciples in the generations after his death? (including todays times.) I think that is the best way to sort christianity from christendom.

 

[wil]

Nor does the bible teach that Jesus was not God/is not God. Only non-christians teach that. So, what are you? Christian or non-christian? Careful how you answer mee. All your well laid out plans and patients might just go up in smoke...

Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) We should believe Jesus, for he surely knew the truth about his relationship to his Father.

There are various viewpoints on the trinity in the Christian Faith. Some deny that it exists and honor Jesus as the Son of G!d, that in itself does not make them any less Christian, this argument has gone on since Jesus's time and is not by any means settled.

Mee points out many quotes that lead to their reasoning, as do others point out quotes that lead towards trinitarian reasoning.

If we wish to have a discussion, let us use the quote mee just provided. How do you interpret that?

And if we wish to discuss them all how about a couple lines before John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

As I read it Jesus is does not say I will return as the Holy Ghost, but the father will send the Holy Ghost. So this is A saying B will send C. In this statement how do you combine ABC as one or in the previous statement where A says B is greater than A how do you reconcile A<C = A=C?

The way I see it, is either discuss or agree to disagree, but tossing sand and names at each other is not beneficial.

 

[Ahanu]

Nor does the bible teach that Jesus was not God/is not God. Only non-christians teach that. So, what are you? Christian or non-christian? Careful how you answer mee. All your well laid out plans and patients might just go up in smoke...

Un-uh! Baha'is teach that Jesus is God. Shall I quote Abdul-Baha?

 

[mee]

The way I see it, is either discuss or agree to disagree, but tossing sand and names at each other is not beneficial.

very true, it is much better to put over what the bible says , after all the bible is the aurthority for christians .



The Hebrew Scriptures are consistently clear in showing that there is but one Almighty God, the Creator of all things and the Most High, whose name is Jehovah. (Ge 17:1; Isa 45:18; Ps 83:18)


For that reason Moses could say to the nation of Israel: "Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force." (De 6:4, 5)


The Christian Greek Scriptures do not contradict this teaching that had been accepted and believed by God’s servants for thousands of years, but instead they support it. (Mr 12:29; Ro 3:29, 30; 1Co 8:6; Eph 4:4-6; 1Ti 2:5)

Jesus Christ himself said, "The Father is greater than I am" and referred to the Father as his God, "the only true God." (Joh 14:28; 17:3; 20:17; Mr 15:34; Re 1:1; 3:12)


On numerous occasions Jesus expressed his inferiority and subordination to his Father. (Mt 4:9, 10; 20:23; Lu 22:41, 42; Joh 5:19; 8:42; 13:16)

Even after Jesus’ ascension into heaven his apostles continued to present the same picture.—1Co 11:3; 15:20, 24-28; 1Pe 1:3; 1Jo 2:1; 4:9, 10.

 

[wil]

very true, it is much better to put over what the bible says , after all the bible is the aurthority for christians .



The Hebrew Scriptures are consistently clear in showing that there is but one Almighty God, the Creator of all things and the Most High, whose name is Jehovah. (Ge 17:1; Isa 45:18; Ps 83:18)

Well, now no. The Hebrew Scriptures used many names, but not once Jehovah. Now those translations that thousands of years later into English of the Old Testament used the word Jehovah, and Elohem, but the Hebrew of the days they were written would not write or pronounce the name, this we know.

But we also know our Old testament, which is 2/3 of our bible, is not the entirety of the Hebrew Texts, nor in the same order, nor in the same translation and in actuality is about 1/20th of their works...So that wouild relegate our canonized Christian works to about 1/60th of the Hebrew...

Also interesting that while you disagree with the interpretation, translation of these texts, you do utilize the canon, the decision of what books are valid as set forth by the trinitarians, I've yet to completely wrap myself around that concept.

 

[mee]

Also interesting that while you disagree with the interpretation, translation of these texts, you do utilize the canon, the decision of what books are valid as set forth by the trinitarians, I've yet to completely wrap myself around that concept.

The canon of the Hebrew Scriptures, was well fixed by the end of the fifth century B.C.E., containing the same writings that we have today.


Canonicity of a book therefore does not rest in whole or in part on whether some council, committee, or community accepts or rejects it. The voice of such noninspired men is valuable only as witness to what God himself has already done through his accredited representatives.


From the time of Moses onward the canon of the Bible kept growing until John wrote his gospel and letters about A.D. 98. Whatever had been produced under inspiration up to any certain time was all that was needed for God’s approval and constituted God’s complete Word up to that time. It therefore also follows that the Bible came before the church, because when Jesus, the head and first one of the true church, came to earth, the Bible, the Hebrew Scriptures, were in existence.

The great Author of the Bible has also been its great Preserver. Regardless of what its enemies have tried to do to destroy it, be such enemies deists, agnostics, atheists, pagans or professed Christians, Jehovah God saw to it that his promise would be fulfilled that stated:


"The vegetation becomes withered, and the flower falls off, but the word spoken by Jehovah endures forever." Yes, the Bible is NOT a Catholic book! It is God’s Book.—1 Pet. 1:24, 25,

 

[wil]

From the time of Moses onward the canon of the Bible kept growing until John wrote his gospel and letters about A.D. 98. Whatever had been produced under inspiration up to any certain time was all that was needed for God’s approval and constituted God’s complete Word up to that time. It therefore also follows that the Bible came before the church, because when Jesus, the head and first one of the true church, came to earth, the Bible, the Hebrew Scriptures, were in existence.

So, again, somehow G!d approved the Catholic Church to canonize the New Testament Scriptures and rearrange the Old Testament and ignore the rest of the Talmud and ignore the other books that were arround. So JW's accept that the Catholics create and order the bible as the will of G!d to do so but not their Trinitarian interpretation.

How is this line drawn?