From what I understand, Baha'is is a conglomeration of monotheistic believes alligned with the Judeac/Islamic/Christian bent. To say Jesus is God is good and correct. Accepting Christ's gift of salvation is a different matter altogether. Is that what Baha'ias believe as well?
The Trinity, from the JW view.
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Every "house" has to have a foundation. And every foundation has to have a base. And every base and foundation has to be envisioned by an architect. Scripture calls Peter the "Rock" and the disciples the beginings of the foundation, but Jesus had the vision and gave the faithful the design to pattern after.
What are your thoughts?
v/r
Q
M
mee
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the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures was fixed by the end of the fifth century B.C.E. This canon did not include apocryphal writings included in some Bible editions, but listed just the thirty-nine books generally accepted and appearing in the majority of modern-day Bibles. That canon was the one accepted by Jesus and the early Christian church, and from which Jesus and his disciples quoted as authority, as God’s Word.—John 17:17.
Scripture also specifically points out the duality of Jesus as both man and God. But upon being born of woman, Jesus obediently gave up the Divine authority to learn and walk and submit to the Father, as a man. He didn't have to, he chose to. Philippians 2 5-8Nor does the bible teach that Jesus was not God/is not God.
Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) We should believe Jesus, for he surely knew the truth about his relationship to his Father.
"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. "
If Jesus gave up his divinity (equality) with God, logically the argument must got that he had equality with God in the first place.
(The Greek word here for "equality' ' comes from the root word isos, used in geometry to describe the isosceles triangle with its two equal sides, or in a special case, an equilateral triangle (which is an isosceles triangle with three equal sides, and three equal angles).
Philippians also points out the Jesus existed as God (Phil 2 6) and as bond servant (Phil 2 7) "being found in the appearance of a man".
God made man.
Jesus did not "grasp" or hold on to his divinity, while walking the earth as a man. Instead he lived in obedience and submission. And in that same obedience and submission paid the ultimate price for all of mankind. This perfect man gave his human life for remission of our sins (faults, out of balance with God, what ever you want to call it).
When he rose from the dead, he was no longer man. He was fully God again with the equality and authority of the Father and the Spirit. In short, Jesus once again took up his divinity.
v/r
Q
And that is where Hebrew Scriptures stopped (pre-messiahah). The new testament is post messiahah, something the Hebrews of the day (and to much extent today), were and are still waiting for.
To disavow or dismiss the new testament is to state that Jesus is irrelevent, a liar or insane. To accept Jesus but dimiss the new testament is an oxymoron. One would have no reference from which to found "Christianity" on.
The "bibliographica" that the early church put together, is the foundation of Christianity at base. To exclaim now that they didn't get it right, is to declare that all Christians up to the last 150 years, are lost. That is shear arrogance on the human that thinks that. Because a God who came deliberately to pay the price (or a God who sent his only begotten Son), for our sins would surely not allow 2000 years worth of human souls to parish, when they did everything they could to walk in faith and trust and the promise that the old testament God promised and the new testament God delivered, based on the "book" that was/is to be man's guide home back to that God, is in error and always has been?
That is one hell of a stretch...
M
mee
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M
mee
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To disavow or dismiss the new testament is to state that Jesus is irrelevent, a liar or insane.quote]
cant have one without the other , from Genesis to revelation the whole of the bible harmonizes , and the theme of the whole of the bible is about the kingdom of God .
and now in this time of the end things have moved along regarding bible prophecies , so that now we are on the threshhold of better things .
DANIEL 2;44
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; daniel 2;44
the heavenly kingdom has been set up and established ,and Jesus has been given his kingship in that heavenly kingdom.
And very shortly all manmade goverments and rulerships will hit the dust .
yes the whole of the inspired word of God the bible , from Genesis to revelation, has moved along and come alive especially in the last days
And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."DANIEL 12;4
Yes true knowledge is now very abundant .
its all happening in the time of the end, and the GREATCROWD are being gathered , and that GREAT CROWD are willing to welcome Gods reigning king JESUS CHRIST.
and that GREAT CROWD are also willing to recognise the one sat on the throne ,who is the most high JEHOVAH REVELATION 7;9-10
And it is very good
KISS THE SON psalm 2;12
and wave that symbolic palm branch to welcome the one with the legal right to the kingship. its the only way to salvation and getting through the GREAT TRIBULATION REVELATION 7;14
17th Angel
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I agree that everyone is different and we have our own foundations, which all differ, but when you are joining groups, they have certain outlines of what you must, wear, act, behave, do or whatever there is a meaning behind the group. Specially we see this in religious organisations/groups. So my opinion on christianity... To follow the teachings of Christ, then that is all you need, if we needed to change things and add things, wouldn't the messiah have done that before he departed?
"It is finished." - Christ's last words from his mouth upon his death.
He had shown us all we needed to know, to do what needed to be done? So I think if you are going to have a genuine belife that Christ was the real deal... Just heed his words, nothing more nor less, and you will be set.
That is obviously only my opinion though.I'll say one thing, I find is surprising how eager a religion is to bend... It constantly adapts to suit the times and encourage as many as possible, sure that is cool... Brings more to faith... (Is there a point if the faith is not what it was to begin with?) But if you have a faith, and you are willing to sacrafice it simply for popularity and power... That isn't the best of things... You shouldn't compromise, as if we are talking Christ is the path and the key... Narrow path and all that? There is no compromise.. If your high ranking members of your church (sorry not good with all those fancy titles lol...) Decided prostitution was fine and you can do it without any problems, it's ok with them, so it's ok with god. Would you do that? Like they decree Hookers Thursday... Won't go into the details of the festival... Would that be ok? (I know that is a bit dramatic, but to an extent this is what most of the followers/"leaders" of christianity are doing... Adding things that have no place...
Sure if you want to follow some of his teachings, and then some of someone else's and add some of your own and change with the times, nothing wrong with that, I have no side lol.... Just I don't think it should be called christianity... Should just go by like the denomination name or something lol has traits of Christ but, with some added stuff.
M
mee
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Scripture calls Jesus the rock-mass
"You are Peter," said Jesus Christ, "and on this rock-mass I will build my congregation." (Matt. 16:18) Just who is the one upon whom the congregation is built? This question can be answered by considering the context of Jesus’ words and other scriptures that speak of the "rock-mass."
Note what was being discussed—the identity of the "Son of man." Peter correctly identified Jesus as "the Christ, the Son of the living God."
The Son of God, though, did not then go on to say, ‘and on you, Peter, I will build my congregation.’ No. He said, "on this rock-mass I will build my congregation."
Since the subject under consideration was the identity of Jesus, the "rock-mass" must have been the one whom Peter acknowledged as "the Christ, the Son of the living God." In other words, Jesus was saying, ‘Upon the rock-mass, which you, Peter, confess, I will build my congregation.’
M
mee
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He had shown us all we needed to know, to do what needed to be done? So I think if you are going to have a genuine belife that Christ was the real deal... Just heed his words, nothing more nor less, and you will be set.
true
and the last thing Jesus said to his followers was this in matthew 28;18-20
And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."
As we can see he didnt say anything about a trinity teaching . he spoke of the father JEHOVAH the son JESUS CHRIST and the holy spirit (Gods active force) and we can see that when a people are inline with the teaching of christ and they are listening and doing what Jesus taught them, then Jesus is with them , and the holy spirit from God is a force in motion . great things are acomplished when the holy spirit from God is behide a work in hand .
true
... Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit"
As we can see he didn't say anything about a trinity teaching
No, nothing ... except, of course, a Threefold Baptism ...
The earliest records we have, including Scripture, suggest baptism in the name of Jesus Christ only which, if Jesus Christ is not God, would involve a blasphemous rite, as only God can forgive sin.
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38).
"They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts 8:16).
"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord" (Acts 10:48 — the earliest Greek manuscripts that we have say, "In the name of Jesus Christ", as do most versions today.)
The disciples of John the Baptist (rebaptized) "They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts 19:5).
"Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).
Before the close of the first century, the Baptismal Rite had become a threefold formula, in the name of the Father, and the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as we have references in early 2nd century texts to that effect, but the singular form was used well into the 3rd century.
This was one of the reasons behind Constantine's call for universality of practice — if all profess the same faith, then dispute should be averted. The Creed or Symbol of Nicea was compiled by drawing on various Baptismal formulae ... archaeologists believe from Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria.
Once again, if God is not Trinity, then the threefold baptism is again a blasphemy ... Deuteronomy says One God, and if one professes a belief in One God, why should one call on another, or others ... ?
Thomas
M
mee
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starting with Pentecost 33 C.E., they began to fulfill the commission to baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit." (Matthew 28:19)
it is very beneficial to review what that means.
What does it mean to be baptized "in the name of the Father"?
It means accepting his name, office, authority, purpose, and laws. Consider what this involves.
(1) Concerning his name, Psalm 83:18 says: "You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth."
(2) Regarding his office, 2 Kings 19:15 states: "O Jehovah . . . , you alone are the true God."
(3) Of his authority, Revelation 4:11 tells us: "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created."
(4) We must also acknowledge that Jehovah is the Life-Giver, who purposes to save us from sin and death: "Salvation belongs to Jehovah." (Psalm 3:8; 36:9) (5)
We need to accept that Jehovah is the Supreme Law-Giver: "Jehovah is our Judge, Jehovah is our Statute-giver, Jehovah is our King." (Isaiah 33:22) Because he is all those things, we are urged: "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind."—Matthew 22:37.
What does baptism "in the name . . . of the Son" mean?
It means recognizing the name, office, and authority of Jesus Christ.
His name, Jesus, means "Jehovah Is Salvation." He derives his office from the fact that he is God’s only-begotten Son, the first of God’s creation. (Matthew 16:16; Colossians 1:15, 16)
Of this Son, John 3:16 tells us: "God loved the world [of redeemable mankind] so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."
Because Jesus died faithful, God resurrected him from the dead and gave him new authority. According to the apostle Paul, God "exalted [Jesus] to a superior position" in the universe, second only to Jehovah. That is why "in the name of Jesus every knee should bend . . . and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11)
This means obeying Jesus’ commandments, which issue from Jehovah himself.—John 15:10.
What does it mean to be baptized "in the name . . . of the holy spirit"?
It means acknowledging the function and activity of the holy spirit. And what is the holy spirit? It is Jehovah’s active force, with which he accomplishes his purposes.
Jesus told his followers: "I will request the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth." (John 14:16, 17)
What would this enable them to do? Jesus further told them: "You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth." (Acts 1:8)
By means of the holy spirit, Jehovah also inspired the writing of the Bible: "Prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit." (2 Peter 1:21)
So we acknowledge the role of the holy spirit when we study the Bible. Another way we acknowledge the holy spirit is by asking Jehovah to help us produce "the fruitage of the spirit," which is "love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control."—Galatians 5:22, 23.
it is very beneficial to review what that means.
What does it mean to be baptized "in the name of the Father"?
It means accepting his name, office, authority, purpose, and laws. Consider what this involves.
(1) Concerning his name, Psalm 83:18 says: "You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth."
(2) Regarding his office, 2 Kings 19:15 states: "O Jehovah . . . , you alone are the true God."
(3) Of his authority, Revelation 4:11 tells us: "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created."
(4) We must also acknowledge that Jehovah is the Life-Giver, who purposes to save us from sin and death: "Salvation belongs to Jehovah." (Psalm 3:8; 36:9) (5)
We need to accept that Jehovah is the Supreme Law-Giver: "Jehovah is our Judge, Jehovah is our Statute-giver, Jehovah is our King." (Isaiah 33:22) Because he is all those things, we are urged: "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind."—Matthew 22:37.
What does baptism "in the name . . . of the Son" mean?
It means recognizing the name, office, and authority of Jesus Christ.
His name, Jesus, means "Jehovah Is Salvation." He derives his office from the fact that he is God’s only-begotten Son, the first of God’s creation. (Matthew 16:16; Colossians 1:15, 16)
Of this Son, John 3:16 tells us: "God loved the world [of redeemable mankind] so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."
Because Jesus died faithful, God resurrected him from the dead and gave him new authority. According to the apostle Paul, God "exalted [Jesus] to a superior position" in the universe, second only to Jehovah. That is why "in the name of Jesus every knee should bend . . . and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11)
This means obeying Jesus’ commandments, which issue from Jehovah himself.—John 15:10.
What does it mean to be baptized "in the name . . . of the holy spirit"?
It means acknowledging the function and activity of the holy spirit. And what is the holy spirit? It is Jehovah’s active force, with which he accomplishes his purposes.
Jesus told his followers: "I will request the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth." (John 14:16, 17)
What would this enable them to do? Jesus further told them: "You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth." (Acts 1:8)
By means of the holy spirit, Jehovah also inspired the writing of the Bible: "Prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit." (2 Peter 1:21)
So we acknowledge the role of the holy spirit when we study the Bible. Another way we acknowledge the holy spirit is by asking Jehovah to help us produce "the fruitage of the spirit," which is "love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control."—Galatians 5:22, 23.
Indeed, comprimise is always wrong, if it involves one's principles.I agree that everyone is different and we have our own foundations, which all differ, but when you are joining groups, they have certain outlines of what you must, wear, act, behave, do or whatever there is a meaning behind the group. Specially we see this in religious organisations/groups. So my opinion on christianity... To follow the teachings of Christ, then that is all you need, if we needed to change things and add things, wouldn't the messiah have done that before he departed?
"It is finished." - Christ's last words from his mouth upon his death.
He had shown us all we needed to know, to do what needed to be done? So I think if you are going to have a genuine belife that Christ was the real deal... Just heed his words, nothing more nor less, and you will be set.
I'll say one thing, I find is surprising how eager a religion is to bend... It constantly adapts to suit the times and encourage as many as possible, sure that is cool... Brings more to faith... (Is there a point if the faith is not what it was to begin with?) But if you have a faith, and you are willing to sacrafice it simply for popularity and power... That isn't the best of things... You shouldn't compromise, as if we are talking Christ is the path and the key... Narrow path and all that? There is no compromise.. If your high ranking members of your church (sorry not good with all those fancy titles lol...) Decided prostitution was fine and you can do it without any problems, it's ok with them, so it's ok with god. Would you do that? Like they decree Hookers Thursday... Won't go into the details of the festival... Would that be ok? (I know that is a bit dramatic, but to an extent this is what most of the followers/"leaders" of christianity are doing... Adding things that have no place...
Sure if you want to follow some of his teachings, and then some of someone else's and add some of your own and change with the times, nothing wrong with that, I have no side lol.... Just I don't think it should be called christianity... Should just go by like the denomination name or something lol has traits of Christ but, with some added stuff.
Namaste Q, so how do you interpret?
mee said:Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) We should believe Jesus, for he surely knew the truth about his relationship to his Father.
Jesus made it clear in Phil 2 5-8, when stated he does not need to grasp the authority he has left behind, in order to become man. (What good would a man be if he had the authority of God)? He left his trust in the Father, and became obedient and submitted to the authority of the Father while he walked as a man. But in doing so, he still remained sinless, and the perfect sacrifice for God's requirement of atonement (for all man).
Look if Lucifer hadn't fallen before pride and desire (to be God's favored), then man might still be in the garden, oblivious to the politics of heaven. When he fell, his goal was to pierce the "apple" of God's eye (man). With man tainted, God logically would look back to Lucifer and say "I'm sorry, you were right."
Only God said, "no this being (man), is worth my original intent and agenda." So, He decided he would send himself as the perfect specimen of man, to atoll for the sins of all mortal men, in order to get his ultimate goal. He wants a grateful being to walk with him. How much more grateful is a being that considers the awe of God, and knows that there is nothing better, not even himself? Yet God designed him and wants him for his own companion, compatriot, "child", and all that entails?
When I was in school, I was an athelete. I was good, but got too good for my britches. And I fell, hard. There was a coach who picked me up, brushed me off and re taught me how to thing about atheletics, and about the important things in life. Instead of "ME" first, I learned the team came first. Instead of "I WON", the team won, and when the coach spoke, I listened because there was wisdom in his words that I could garner for my own.
But during all of this there were those who had quit sports, and they were much better than me. They would put words in your ears, try to trip you up, or if that didn't work, beat you up, or if that didn't work, make you look bad to the rest of the school (sound familiar)?
Then there came a day that some folk went after the Coach. For a year it was point counter point, and alot of disgusting behavior by "adults". The coach was drummed out. And that was the end.
Except it wasn't. The teams the coach lead followed his wisdom and remembered his points, and invited him to the meets/games, and they basically kept on following his lead, despite the best efforts of others to make him disappear.
And we kept winning (at one point we had no "Coach", because the school couldn't find one who could keep up with us).
Finally, he was brought back, and we excelled even farther (to state in several instances).
We see the same pattern over and over again, like "get it through your head man, I'm here to see you excell." There are "others" though that would like nothing better than to see us fall...
God is so for us, that he covered the ultimate judge and final word, the in the weeds see you as a man sees, and the I'm your back up and will never leave you...GOD.
For crying out loud, the Holy Spirit hovers over me like hovering over the waters of the firmament in Genesis! Jus wants to make sure everything goes right!
You can't beat that type of coverage with any insurance, or any faith that does not acknowledge the viability of the Holy Spirit.
BUT, if one acknowledges the viability of the Holy Spirit, then one must acknowledge the Son, who promised to send that Holy Spirit (whom he said we can talk to and trust and depend upon). And if the Son has that authority (as he did AFTER the ressurection, remember, no body messed with Jesus after his resurrection, though many are reported to see him alive), then He must be GOD.
I can't send GOD to do my bidding...can you? For Jesus to do so (if he isn't GOD), is akin to blasphemy, and the new testament is FOREFIT.
Of course Wil, if you take all I said into context, then mee's concept of God is also forefit, as is anyone else who claims Jesus is not GOD almighty. In short...
they fool themselves and are damned, for there is nothing, let alone a path of salvation...the "door" has been removed.
Namaste Q, this is the problem, mee states one line and his interpretation. Your answer refers to another scripture.
The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)
How is Jesus referring to himself in this line?
If we wish to have a discussion we should talk about the same thing...and then go onto the next. Otherwise it is a tennis match that is like tic tac toe....only the cat wins.
The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)
How is Jesus referring to himself in this line?
If we wish to have a discussion we should talk about the same thing...and then go onto the next. Otherwise it is a tennis match that is like tic tac toe....only the cat wins.
BlaznFattyz
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the father is in heaven and his will is redemption.
the action of the father is thru the son who is the mirror image of the father and can only do the will of the father, Christ is the redemption.
both are the redeemers. there is no redemption without the father and there is no redemption without the son.
For Jesus to die for our sins as a perfect sacrifice he had to empty himself of his position in heaven as the Word of God and be born under the law as man and go through all that a Jew who kept the law would go through, and because of his position was less than the Father. But that only a short period of Christ's life.
the action of the father is thru the son who is the mirror image of the father and can only do the will of the father, Christ is the redemption.
both are the redeemers. there is no redemption without the father and there is no redemption without the son.
For Jesus to die for our sins as a perfect sacrifice he had to empty himself of his position in heaven as the Word of God and be born under the law as man and go through all that a Jew who kept the law would go through, and because of his position was less than the Father. But that only a short period of Christ's life.
Have to accept the same point. Jesus gave up his godhead (divinity, authority), to walk and live as a man. The ultimate in obedience and submission to the will of the Father, by choice.Then he raise hands and died as a man (perfect man), and took on all the sins of man from the beginning to the end.
Will, the perfect man with no sin, took on all the sins of the world (it is a very Jewish/Hebrew concept. He died as a lamb brought to slaughter. But when he rose...he won, and he was no longer man. He took his crown as was given him. He took his rightful place once again.
He owns our marker. He wants to cash in, and it is us the prize he wants.
p.s. I don't understand the marriage concept of God and church (being a man). But I do understand this, I love when my father and brothers hold me, in love. And I love when my mother and sisters hold me in love.
I suspect it is a combination and culmination and beyond, when God holds us, in love.
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That's the path to follow
"You might even say that Christ himself abolished Christendom before it began, by stating that his kingdom was not of this world. One of the most far reaching and important of all his statements.(John18:36)" - Malcom Muggeridge (Author of The End of Christendom.)
Just reading that scripture again, And he says that his kingdom isn't of this world... It's source isn't coming from the Earth? Can someone explaing that to me, because I am reading this and then with my idea of Christ being the way and his teachings alone are all a Christian needs.... It does make me curious to why people continue to tell those who follow just the teachings of Christ that they are not Christians..... Another thing I feel any RC should reflect on would be James 4:4.... As that shows that not only do you not seem to follow just the teachings of Christ, but in your endeavours to change your laws, rules, faith and dogma.... You seem to be missing main messages?
Also what is with the flag?